Pumped340 Hair Transplant and Hair Fibers

[Deleted member 106824]

Man, LONG day.

Got there at 6:45am. He went through the process and drew some lines on my head. By far the worst part was getting the lidocaine injections and then having to have my head cranked all the way to the sides for him to get the grafts. Getting all 2500 grafts took about 3 hours.

After that I was able to sit up as he placed the grafts. This was much more tolerable and we took breaks ever hour or so. Finished around 3-4pm.

Super weird seeing my head shaved, but actually I think I pull it off reasonable well lol.

I haven't taken anything for pain and I'm doing ok, maybe a 2/10. Stings but not unbearable. The lidocaine should be fully worn off by now so I'm hoping it doesn't get any worse but we'll see how things go.

I will say it does not look even at all to me. One side is clearly higher up than the other, not sure why that would happen as he's placing each graft one after the other so you'd think he would notice if it wasn't coming out unevenly but there's clearly a discrepancy. Also it's not as low as I would like. He and I discussed it beforehand and agreed we wouldn't want to bring the hairline too low, but I feel like it looks almost in an identical position as before which is not what we discussed and not what I wanted.

So I guess at this point it's just a waiting game but I'm fairly certain the hair will only grow in where I'm currently seeing the red blotchy spots, which as I said aren't even or low enough. Maybe Anubis can chime in if he's around. I sent a picture to the doctor asking him about this, will see what he says. If that's the case that definitely bums me out as I was looking forward to having a lower hairline.

 

[11111]

Man, LONG day.

Got there at 6:45am. He went through the process and drew some lines on my head. By far the worst part was getting the lidocaine injections and then having to have my head cranked all the way to the sides for him to get the grafts. Getting all 2500 grafts took about 3 hours.

After that I was able to sit up as he placed the grafts. This was much more tolerable and we took breaks ever hour or so. Finished around 3-4pm.

Super weird seeing my head shaved, but actually I think I pull it off reasonable well lol.

I haven't taken anything for pain and I'm doing ok, maybe a 2/10. Stings but not unbearable. The lidocaine should be fully worn off by now so I'm hoping it doesn't get any worse but we'll see how things go.

I will say it does not look even at all to me. One side is clearly higher up than the other, not sure why that would happen as he's placing each graft one after the other so you'd think he would notice if it wasn't coming out unevenly but there's clearly a discrepancy. Also it's not as low as I would like. He and I discussed it beforehand and agreed we wouldn't want to bring the hairline too low, but I feel like it looks almost in an identical position as before which is not what we discussed and not what I wanted.

So I guess at this point it's just a waiting game but I'm fairly certain the hair will only grow in where I'm currently seeing the red blotchy spots, which as I said aren't even or low enough. Maybe Anubis can chime in if he's around. I sent a picture to the doctor asking him about this, will see what he says. If that's the case that definitely bums me out as I was looking forward to having a lower hairline.

thanks for the update. Just saw your post in the other thread..

please let us know what your doc says

 

[Deleted member 106824]

thanks for the update. Just saw your post in the other thread..

please let us know what your doc says

So I emailed him and told him the issue. He said "I see what you are talking about. The problem with hairlines is often when we have the hairline even in the frontal view, it is not even in the chin to chest view. When this happens I always go with the frontal view, since this is view most people (including yourself in the mirror), will see. Here is a photo of the graft placement in the frontal view. If it still looks uneven when the hair grows out, it is an easy, one hour fix if we need to."

My problem with that though is he didn't address the fact that he didn't bring it down enough. I sent him pictures of where he drew the line and the pictures of where the grafts were placed and on the right side he's almost a full inch higher than where he drew the line. It's very clearly different.

Also, this whole business about "it only taking an hour"...maybe it only takes an hour on his part but if this has to be done later that's a huge commitment on my part if it involves shaving my head again and going through all this craziness. The whole hair transplant process is almost a year long so it's not just a small thing.

I don't think it will look bad at all, I think my hair was already reasonable with the fibers and with the improved thickness it will go from a 7 to a 9 (relatively) but if I paid almost $12000 for a specific plan then that's what I want and I'm pretty frustrated that he deviated to such a significant degree.

I'm attaching pictures here showing the line he drew and then where he placed the grafts. You can see there is a very noticeable difference between the two. I even asked him during the procedure if there were any surprises and he assured me everything was going exactly as expected.

 

[Anubis]

Sorry bro, I hadn't checked in for a few days but another member told me about this post a few hours ago and I wanted to sit down and read thru it properly.

I just want to clarify your issue with the hairline unevenness that you mentioned, were you wanting it where that purple line goes across in the last of the 3 pics?

can you show some face forward shots, before the shave down, pre op when it is shaved and then post op from the same angle if possible and if you have any with the hairline drawn in before the op face forward thatd be good to, I want to see where the hairline has moved if at all as well as what the hairline dead on looks like right now post op. If you dont want to show it here, pm me them or I'll shoot you me email addy if you don't have it anymore. I'll advise more but I want to get a full scope of what went on and what it looks like now those pics don't give me enough of a pic to go on other than for sure to say he moved the hairline up from where he drew the initial line. I saw his response didn't address that, did he mention at all during surgery about any difficulty extracting grafts? your pre surgery quote was 2500 grafts and he stuck to that, did he have you sign a waiver for additional grafts if needed? The one thing he is right about is if it is uneven and it needs to be addressed the bulk of the work is done and you likely would not need to reshave as he wouldn't have to go into existing native hair he would be working outside it so he could just place them and it'll look like baby hairs growing out so it'll look not perfect for a bit but it's an easy fix without a major life disruption with having to regrow your hair etc but that's secondary i wanna see if it is off first.

I have some other questions as well but lets start here.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Sorry bro, I hadn't checked in for a few days but another member told me about this post a few hours ago and I wanted to sit down and read thru it properly.

I just want to clarify your issue with the hairline unevenness that you mentioned, were you wanting it where that purple line goes across in the last of the 3 pics?

can you show some face forward shots, before the shave down, pre op when it is shaved and then post op from the same angle if possible and if you have any with the hairline drawn in before the op face forward thatd be good to, I want to see where the hairline has moved if at all as well as what the hairline dead on looks like right now post op. If you dont want to show it here, pm me them or I'll shoot you me email addy if you don't have it anymore. I'll advise more but I want to get a full scope of what went on and what it looks like now those pics don't give me enough of a pic to go on other than for sure to say he moved the hairline up from where he drew the initial line. I saw his response didn't address that, did he mention at all during surgery about any difficulty extracting grafts? your pre surgery quote was 2500 grafts and he stuck to that, did he have you sign a waiver for additional grafts if needed? The one thing he is right about is if it is uneven and it needs to be addressed the bulk of the work is done and you likely would not need to reshave as he wouldn't have to go into existing native hair he would be working outside it so he could just place them and it'll look like baby hairs growing out so it'll look not perfect for a bit but it's an easy fix without a major life disruption with having to regrow your hair etc but that's secondary i wanna see if it is off first.

I have some other questions as well but lets start here.

Hey yea I'll work on getting that together, can you PM me your email? I might have it but not sure and it would be helpful to get into as much detail as possible.

Also, they said my donor site was great and I could probably get 9000 grafts from it, and I did sign a waiver so definitely no excuse for him to not go where he said.

So if it had to be done later he would basically just take grafts from the very back or something without reshaving and then place them in the front so only a small portion would be red and blotchy but I could keep my hair as is? That certainly makes a huge difference.

Oh and yes, where I drew the purple line is essentially almost exactly where he drew his line which is where we agreed he would bring the hairline down to.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I was looking at his before and after pics on his site yesterday and it seems a lot of the pics have that recession left? Like the pics look much better than the befores, but they'd look better if it wasn't there.

Attaching one example here. Like that "after" pic...the guy looks like he went from balding to soon-to-be-balding. I don't see why you wouldn't fill in that area on the sides and give a full head of hair unless the patient thought it would be too dramatic of a change, but like I said when I see that after pic it looks to me like a guy who's going to lose his hair soon rather than someone with really good hair.

 

[Anubis]

Hey yea I'll work on getting that together, can you PM me your email? I might have it but not sure and it would be helpful to get into as much detail as possible.

Also, they said my donor site was great and I could probably get 9000 grafts from it, and I did sign a waiver so definitely no excuse for him to not go where he said.

So if it had to be done later he would basically just take grafts from the very back or something without reshaving and then place them in the front so only a small portion would be red and blotchy but I could keep my hair as is? That certainly makes a huge difference.

Oh and yes, where I drew the purple line is essentially almost exactly where he drew his line which is where we agreed he would bring the hairline down to.

pm'd you my email.

very healthy donor which is great news!

definitely no excuse, I am curious as to why he didn't go closer to the line both of you agreed upon. Patients will often try to push the limits of how far down they want to take a hairline and its the docs job to tell them what is not only doable but will look age appropriate going forward but that is what the pre op phase is for you don't change that on a patient on your own. Vories is a well respected doc who does take patient case seriously in the cases I've seen so that would be out of character for him to proceed in that way but further pictures will help as I want to see how far down he did take your hair line from pre op.

Yes exactly, that fix if needed would be a small op, he would just trim down the sides and back to make it look like a fade and just extract. It would have that post extraction look for a couple days but that fades quickly and you can be be back at work within a few days and the remaining hair would be untouched and you could keep it grown out up top.

As for the purple line you drew in, this is what I was getting at with the dr stepping in and saying no....essentially saving a patient from himself lol. Closing off the temples like that leads to a very helmet like appearance, and very unnatural look. It draws the eye and the inclination is to think fake and that is the last thing you want with a transplant it should appear as natural as possible. Drs well good Drs take into account certain facial features when drawing in your hairline and sometimes a flatter hairline is used, sometimes more u shaped, sometimes more v shaped, the dr seems to have used a hybrid u/v shape on you so your features must align with that which is emphasizing the opening on the temples in that pic but when its grown out and you style it, it won't look as dramatic and will suit your face but without seeing your face I cant say for certain if a lower angle could've been taken, but like i said thats an easy and rather painless fix, its not a full shavedown to fix that if you ultimately decide that you'd like to decrease the angle but you definitely don't want to close it off like you had drawn but the option to reduce the angle to have less space there would be the option.

For the patient of Vories you posted that result is quite good. The patient facial features are evident here and you can see his chin is rather sharp and eyebrows slope downward so the hairline should be following in line with that and it is, the hairline shape is dead on. If you close off the temples there he ends up with a scrunched up facial look that wouldn't flow, it'd look abrupt to the eye. About the only argument to be made is that he could've taken the entire hairline down a little bit but they stayed pretty close to where his natural hairline was. Filling in hair is cost effective in terms of grafts usage, filling up empty space to create a new hair line is where you start eating up grafts so even taking that down just a little bit given his hair seems to be on the fine/thin side, you're looking at another 1500 grafts min and fine/thin light hair is usually donor light to begin with so it may not have been an efficient usage given his developing pattern its hard to see what is going on behind there but if there is some peak thru developing mid to crown it may just not have been a luxury he could've afforded but ultimately the work is quite good.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

pm'd you my email.

very healthy donor which is great news!

definitely no excuse, I am curious as to why he didn't go closer to the line both of you agreed upon. Patients will often try to push the limits of how far down they want to take a hairline and its the docs job to tell them what is not only doable but will look age appropriate going forward but that is what the pre op phase is for you don't change that on a patient on your own. Vories is a well respected doc who does take patient case seriously in the cases I've seen so that would be out of character for him to proceed in that way but further pictures will help as I want to see how far down he did take your hair line from pre op.

Yes exactly, that fix if needed would be a small op, he would just trim down the sides and back to make it look like a fade and just extract. It would have that post extraction look for a couple days but that fades quickly and you can be be back at work within a few days and the remaining hair would be untouched and you could keep it grown out up top.

As for the purple line you drew in, this is what I was getting at with the dr stepping in and saying no....essentially saving a patient from himself lol. Closing off the temples like that leads to a very helmet like appearance, and very unnatural look. It draws the eye and the inclination is to think fake and that is the last thing you want with a transplant it should appear as natural as possible. Drs well good Drs take into account certain facial features when drawing in your hairline and sometimes a flatter hairline is used, sometimes more u shaped, sometimes more v shaped, the dr seems to have used a hybrid u/v shape on you so your features must align with that which is emphasizing the opening on the temples in that pic but when its grown out and you style it, it won't look as dramatic and will suit your face but without seeing your face I cant say for certain if a lower angle could've been taken, but like i said thats an easy and rather painless fix, its not a full shavedown to fix that if you ultimately decide that you'd like to decrease the angle but you definitely don't want to close it off like you had drawn but the option to reduce the angle to have less space there would be the option.

For the patient of Vories you posted that result is quite good. The patient facial features are evident here and you can see his chin is rather sharp and eyebrows slope downward so the hairline should be following in line with that and it is, the hairline shape is dead on. If you close off the temples there he ends up with a scrunched up facial look that wouldn't flow, it'd look abrupt to the eye. About the only argument to be made is that he could've taken the entire hairline down a little bit but they stayed pretty close to where his natural hairline was. Filling in hair is cost effective in terms of grafts usage, filling up empty space to create a new hair line is where you start eating up grafts so even taking that down just a little bit given his hair seems to be on the fine/thin side, you're looking at another 1500 grafts min and fine/thin light hair is usually donor light to begin with so it may not have been an efficient usage given his developing pattern its hard to see what is going on behind there but if there is some peak thru developing mid to crown it may just not have been a luxury he could've afforded but ultimately the work is quite good.

Emailed ya

You're the expert, and I agree I could see patients including myself wanting too much, but I feel like where I drew the purple line in my own picture is just about exactly where he drew it.

Like you said, the part that is frustrating and doesn't make sense to me is that we talked about it beforehand, he specifically told me "I don't want to bring it down too far or it will look unnatural", I agreed, then HE drew the line showing where he wanted it to go, then deviated significantly. That's my issue (which I know you get).

Interested to hear what you have to say about the pics I sent.


Just as an example I'm attaching 2 pics of Zac Efron (just what came up when I googled 'good hairline') and I would say even though it's his natural hair (I assume) the first pic looks helmet-like. The second looks great though and no recession anywhere.

 

[Anubis]

hit ya back pumped. Also went over the Efron pic in there to explain why his works and other cases dont.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Anubis and I have been chatting. All in all it seems we agree the worst part about it is that Dr. Vories clearly did deviate from what he said we would do, without telling me. But on the whole Anubis thinks it's still a job well done and that I'll be happy with the result.

Just bought a hat that I'm trying to be as careful as possible with. It's big and seems to be resting on my forehead and top/back of my head without touching the grafts but it's hard to tell. It's super itchy having anything touch it, and really just itchy in general even if nothing is touching it, that's been the most annoying thing the last few days. Other than that it seems to be going fine.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Worked out yesterday. Didn't go crazy but maybe pushed harder than I should have. Head started getting a little tingly. Maybe I should just stick to my light cardio for another week or two.

Also started rubbing the donor site the day prior and scabs were coming off....I don't know if that was the cause or just natural healing but man it was uncomfortable all day yesterday, just pins and prick.

Lastly, the itchiness is out of this world. I wanted to rip my scalp off. I'm surprised I haven't read this in any of the other HT logs on here (though I've only read a few), it was insane and falling asleep took a while. I called the office and they said the only thing I can do is take benadryl.

 

[warlock]

Worked out yesterday. Didn't go crazy but maybe pushed harder than I should have. Head started getting a little tingly. Maybe I should just stick to my light cardio for another week or two.

Also started rubbing the donor site the day prior and scabs were coming off....I don't know if that was the cause or just natural healing but man it was uncomfortable all day yesterday, just pins and prick.

Lastly, the itchiness is out of this world. I wanted to rip my scalp off. I'm surprised I haven't read this in any of the other HT logs on here (though I've only read a few), it was insane and falling asleep took a while. I called the office and they said the only thing I can do is take benadryl.

I've been reading your updates and I hope the end result is what you wanted. It seems that it will look really good, and if the hairline needs a touch up down the road, the process will be a piece of cake.

Hang in there with the itching.

How many days did the doctor tell you to hold off from the gym?

Keep the updates coming

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I've been reading your updates and I hope the end result is what you wanted. It seems that it will look really good, and if the hairline needs a touch up down the road, the process will be a piece of cake.

Hang in there with the itching.

How many days did the doctor tell you to hold off from the gym?

Keep the updates coming

He said "don't workout for 1 week but other activity is fine". Yesterday was 6 days so I figured a moderate workout would be ok but Anubis was just telling me how I really want to avoid sweat on the area, which makes me surprised Dr. Vories said other activity is fine because one could definitely sweat with other activity. I've been doing light cycling each day.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Picture taken yesterday so about 9-10 days in. Scabs are still there, I've gone out in public a few times without a hat just for basic things like grocery shopping, I think if you're not close up it just looks like a buzz cut.

We only worked on the frontal 3rd but looking at this pic it seems like the entire top is much thinner than the sides and back

 

[Anubis]

.

We only worked on the frontal 3rd but looking at this pic it seems like the entire top is much thinner than the sides and back

cause it is, you're diffusing hair so the density is going to be less than your safe zones.

1st time patients usually have the crusting and scabbing linger too long, they tend to baby the grafts and I get it but you're close to anchored if you want to play it safe wait another couple days and do what you've been doing til now but once you hit that anchored point, let the water saturate the grafts, apply shampoo and let it sit and soak for a little bit, a little pressure and they'll slide right off. You want them gone relatively soon. Just don't dig into them with your nail, finger tip pressure only.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

cause it is, you're diffusing hair so the density is going to be less than your safe zones.

1st time patients usually have the crusting and scabbing linger too long, they tend to baby the grafts and I get it but you're close to anchored if you want to play it safe wait another couple days and do what you've been doing til now but once you hit that anchored point, let the water saturate the grafts, apply shampoo and let it sit and soak for a little bit, a little pressure and they'll slide right off. You want them gone relatively soon. Just don't dig into them with your nail, finger tip pressure only.

I guess I didn't realize it was to that extent on the entire top. Is it just me or is even the frontal third where all the grafts were placed still thinner than the sides too? Other than maybe right at the hairline.

OK yea I've really still been trying to avoid touching them much at all. Today is 11 days post-op. So maybe Monday I'll work on getting them off. I've still only just been pouring water on the back of my head and letting it run down to the front, but I imagine at this point just letting the water hit the front directly is fine.

Regular shampoo is fine as well I assume?

 

[Anubis]

I guess I didn't realize it was to that extent on the entire top. Is it just me or is even the frontal third where all the grafts were placed still thinner than the sides too? Other than maybe right at the hairline.

OK yea I've really still been trying to avoid touching them much at all. Today is 11 days post-op. So maybe Monday I'll work on getting them off. I've still only just been pouring water on the back of my head and letting it run down to the front, but I imagine at this point just letting the water hit the front directly is fine.

Regular shampoo is fine as well I assume?

Yes the front is less than the safe zone as well. Remember that a hair transplant is all about illusion, it's not going to match native density, it can't. To match native density would put much of your other hairs at risk to transection as they'd be placed far too close to each and the amount of grafts required would just eat up your donor in no time. The goal is to get it to the point that it is not perceptible loss to the human eye.

If today is day 11 they're locked in and you're good to let them soak and apply a little pressure. You can definitely pour water directly now as well. Check with your doc but usually by the 2 week mark you're good to get back in the shower and let the shower water hit you and not have to pour any longer.

You're good to use your regular shampoo just avoid anything overly strong, like medicated or essential oil based shampoos , tea tree oil based shampoos for example are hard on grafts and if you can get a sulfate free shampoo that'd be ideal.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Yes the front is less than the safe zone as well. Remember that a hair transplant is all about illusion, it's not going to match native density, it can't. To match native density would put much of your other hairs at risk to transection as they'd be placed far too close to each and the amount of grafts required would just eat up your donor in no time. The goal is to get it to the point that it is not perceptible loss to the human eye.

If today is day 11 they're locked in and you're good to let them soak and apply a little pressure. You can definitely pour water directly now as well. Check with your doc but usually by the 2 week mark you're good to get back in the shower and let the shower water hit you and not have to pour any longer.

You're good to use your regular shampoo just avoid anything overly strong, like medicated or essential oil based shampoos , tea tree oil based shampoos for example are hard on grafts and if you can get a sulfate free shampoo that'd be ideal.

OK cool, so would I be safe to wear a beanie and hat completely normally at this point i.e having it directly on the grafts? I've been wearing a hat since around day 4 but it's been very loose and not really touching the grafted area.

 

[Anubis]

OK cool, so would I be safe to wear a beanie and hat completely normally at this point i.e having it directly on the grafts? I've been wearing a hat since around day 4 but it's been very loose and not really touching the grafted area.

yeah once you're anchored they're not coming out by a little friction, you'd have to yank those things out with force. I still wouldn't go insanely tight but you can wear it as per usual

 

[Deleted member 106824]

yeah once you're anchored they're not coming out by a little friction, you'd have to yank those things out with force. I still wouldn't go insanely tight but you can wear it as per usual

OK cool.

Btw, you mentioned I want the scabs gone soon. Is that because they could hinder the results? Kind of gross but to be honest I actually look more normal with the scabs there. Unless someone is really close to me I just look like I have a buzz cut, but if I rub the scabs off it will probably look like I'm balding and be more red.