Question for BB'ers age 50+

[ALLEX]

I find it odd when someone says "you must do this to build this".

Muscles don't know what you're doing, they understand stimulus and that's it.

You can build some huge chest, shoulders and triceps with pushups only.

My brother has some humongous quads for a natural guy and all he does is uphill biking.

 

[Dens228]

I find it odd when someone says "you must do this to build this".

Muscles don't know what you're doing, they understand stimulus and that's it.

You can build some huge chest, shoulders and triceps with pushups only.

My brother has some humongous quads for a natural guy and all he does is uphill biking.

Exactly, a muscle contracts or it doesn't. I do think different exercises work for different people for many reasons. Tendon insertion, lever length, genetic strength of various muscle groups.

When I powerlifted squats were my strongest lift by far but you certainly wouldn't know it by my legs......When I switched to a bodybuilding type workout and changed my stance to target quads more they still weren't growing........hack squats and leg presses brought them up. But now I can't squat for shit...

 

[Ifbbpro2014]

People tend to make shit too complicated. Keep it simple.

 

[malcom young]

Not related to legs, but I'd have NOT ever done any behind the neck pull downs or behind the neck straight bar presses; dumbbells only.

 

[n3mo0101]

Not related to legs, but I'd have NOT ever done any behind the neck pull downs or behind the neck straight bar presses; dumbbells only.

I don't do any of those. I hear it is really dangerous.

 

[malcom young]

Way unnatural angle on the shoulders.

 

[mas1derful]

I use strictly dumbbells and machines. I no longer squat I do leg press and hacks along with other various movements. I train high volume and very fast. I use to train very heavy no longer.

 

[LATS]

I find it odd when someone says "you must do this to build this".

Muscles don't know what you're doing, they understand stimulus and that's it.

You can build some huge chest, shoulders and triceps with pushups only.

My brother has some humongous quads for a natural guy and all he does is uphill biking.

There is never a " must do" exercise... This would be assuming every ones leverages and structure are identical.. Which, of course, we know doesn't exist.. Many great legs were made with leg presses.. Many great chests don't benchpress.. Find the exercises that work for you and train the shit out of them.. One of the best backs IVE ever seen in person belonged to will harris.. He never deadlifts.. Says it's not worth the risk.. He hasn't suffered from it..

 

[Gravel]

I use strictly dumbbells and machines. I no longer squat I do leg press and hacks along with other various movements. I train high volume and very fast. I use to train very heavy no longer.

Figured...haha. That's a PRO; no matter what they do they grow while all the skinny runts like me are killing ourselves squatting.....

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I think you guys are asking for things that just arent possible.....as far as comparing your 50 year old self with your 25 year old self

Post 50! Your past 50! Do you see any professional athletes in MLB, NFL, or NBA past 50? It is what it is....aging....and your looking for a culprit. And the culprit is your post 50!

Twenty year old Joe out playing full court basketball with the boys...I dont expect him to get hurt...if he does...bad luck

Fifty year old Joe out playing full court basketball with the boys and he tears his achilles or blows out his knee.....yea I am not surprised. Should fifty year old joe be blaming the court, his shoes, or anything else? He is fifty!

I cannot squat, deadlift or do anything poundage wise my 28-38 year old self could do in the gym...that guy was a stud...joints of steel...IM not trying to find any other reason for it than what is fact....my prime lifting years was probably 28-44ish...its just the reality of it

with that said I think the biggest mistake i see everyone do that develops knee problems is
1) Ballistic training...they bounce out of the hole on squats, hacks and whatever else in their younger years because they are trying to show off/use too much weight with shit form and they damage their knees
2) Shallow movements.....and we can argue all day about this but it is my experience that virtually every single guy Ive ever come across that did shallow nonfull movement squats to again (show off/use too much weight) ended up developing knee problems....while people who have always done deep full squats dont get those debilitating knee problems with time. Ive seen this time and time again...either ballistic out of the hole or non ass to bucket squats due to wanting to use weights that were truly too heavy to be used at that time.

I did the following when i was training people all the time and wrecked quite a few egos in the process....i had countless guys saying "my knees hurt...oh woe is me my knees etc"....and i would explain the above and you know what i would make them do? I told them im going to reteach you to squat properly and its going to be embarassing because we are starting with 25lb plates on each side and we are not going up the following weeks until you squat it deep/then a pause/and then raise (not ballistically) out of the hole for 10 reps...and we will only go up in weight until you learn how to squat properly......and you see the light goes on with them...with the "oh man i should have been doing this for all these years...I ruined myself trying to show off"

Ive squatted in probably 98% of my leg workouts for the last 30 years. Ive always squatted bigtime deep and im 6'1"....like Tenny said I have no idea how someone does half squats...my patella tendons feel like they want to snap across the room like that so no wonder so many people sacrificed knee health over form doing it that way for so many years.

Gone are the days of 450-575 squats for reps for me....thats gone. And mainly for the reasoning that I dont want to suffer a catastrophic injury at this point in my life. I do a boatload of hiking for cardio now so my whole deal is 20 reps with squatting. Ive gone over to smith squatting now because all the hiking and free squatting wears me out and again its all about injury prevention with me now. 315 for 20 rock bottom is right around the corner for me.

I do the same thing every time i train legs and have done for years...
16% menthol (FLEXALL) on my knees, with long cotton sweats under my normal sweats to keep warm
a) train hamstrings first..get a whole bunch of blood in the legs
b) always do leg press first for quads and again i do deep and use the warmup sets (deep) to get mobility in my knees....every warmup set is 12-16 reps and top work set is 12-16
c) smith squat (non counterweighted) trying to set my 20 reps record
d) one other exercise
e) adductor
f) abductor

(knee wraps on all my top end sets)

but again.....i think mostly people are expecting themselves to have the capacity their 25 year old self did....and its just not possible. I always tell people you better get some big quads when you are young (25-40ish) because you will not be able to build massive quads when you are older...you will be fighting to keep leg size at that point so you better get them large when you can.

 

[n3mo0101]

I think you guys are asking for things that just arent possible.....as far as comparing your 50 year old self with your 25 year old self

Post 50! Your past 50! Do you see any professional athletes in MLB, NFL, or NBA past 50? It is what it is....aging....and your looking for a culprit. And the culprit is your post 50!

Twenty year old Joe out playing full court basketball with the boys...I dont expect him to get hurt...if he does...bad luck

Fifty year old Joe out playing full court basketball with the boys and he tears his achilles or blows out his knee.....yea I am not surprised. Should fifty year old joe be blaming the court, his shoes, or anything else? He is fifty!

I cannot squat, deadlift or do anything poundage wise my 28-38 year old self could do in the gym...that guy was a stud...joints of steel...IM not trying to find any other reason for it than what is fact....my prime lifting years was probably 28-44ish...its just the reality of it

with that said I think the biggest mistake i see everyone do that develops knee problems is
1) Ballistic training...they bounce out of the hole on squats, hacks and whatever else in their younger years because they are trying to show off/use too much weight with shit form and they damage their knees
2) Shallow movements.....and we can argue all day about this but it is my experience that virtually every single guy Ive ever come across that did shallow nonfull movement squats to again (show off/use too much weight) ended up developing knee problems....while people who have always done deep full squats dont get those debilitating knee problems with time. Ive seen this time and time again...either ballistic out of the hole or non ass to bucket squats due to wanting to use weights that were truly too heavy to be used at that time.

I did the following when i was training people all the time and wrecked quite a few egos in the process....i had countless guys saying "my knees hurt...oh woe is me my knees etc"....and i would explain the above and you know what i would make them do? I told them im going to reteach you to squat properly and its going to be embarassing because we are starting with 25lb plates on each side and we are not going up the following weeks until you squat it deep/then a pause/and then raise (not ballistically) out of the hole for 10 reps...and we will only go up in weight until you learn how to squat properly......and you see the light goes on with them...with the "oh man i should have been doing this for all these years...I ruined myself trying to show off"

Ive squatted in probably 98% of my leg workouts for the last 30 years. Ive always squatted bigtime deep and im 6'1"....like Tenny said I have no idea how someone does half squats...my patella tendons feel like they want to snap across the room like that so no wonder so many people sacrificed knee health over form doing it that way for so many years.

Gone are the days of 450-575 squats for reps for me....thats gone. And mainly for the reasoning that I dont want to suffer a catastrophic injury at this point in my life. I do a boatload of hiking for cardio now so my whole deal is 20 reps with squatting. Ive gone over to smith squatting now because all the hiking and free squatting wears me out and again its all about injury prevention with me now. 315 for 20 rock bottom is right around the corner for me.

I do the same thing every time i train legs and have done for years...
16% menthol (FLEXALL) on my knees, with long cotton sweats under my normal sweats to keep warm
a) train hamstrings first..get a whole bunch of blood in the legs
b) always do leg press first for quads and again i do deep and use the warmup sets (deep) to get mobility in my knees....every warmup set is 12-16 reps and top work set is 12-16
c) smith squat (non counterweighted) trying to set my 20 reps record
d) one other exercise
e) adductor
f) abductor

(knee wraps on all my top end sets)

but again.....i think mostly people are expecting themselves to have the capacity their 25 year old self did....and its just not possible. I always tell people you better get some big quads when you are young (25-40ish) because you will not be able to build massive quads when you are older...you will be fighting to keep leg size at that point so you better get them large when you can.

Extremely insightful. Thank you for taking the time to post that, it is greatly appreciated.

 

[concreteguy]

I do this to avoid my knee pain. I do reverse hack squats down to a true 90 degree angle. I start with two plates and work up to six plates per side doing sets of 6 to 8 reps. I then do dead lifts in a Smith machine. I set the height up so the bar stops going down about 4 inches before hitting the floor.

These are two primary move that I do every time I'm in the gym because I do a three day a week total body workout. When my knees hurt too much to do the squats I just do the deads witch has been working for me.

CG

 

[SRHealthTech]

It depends on your own body. Just listen to your body and find the best method to you.

 

[OutToLunch]

I do this to avoid my knee pain. I do reverse hack squats down to a true 90 degree angle. I start with two plates and work up to six plates per side doing sets of 6 to 8 reps. I then do dead lifts in a Smith machine. I set the height up so the bar stops going down about 4 inches before hitting the floor.



These are two primary move that I do every time I'm in the gym because I do a three day a week total body workout. When my knees hurt too much to do the squats I just do the deads witch has been working for me.



CG

Ever try 4day week total body?

 

[concreteguy]

I don't think I could recover from that. My strongest day is Monday after that two days off. I then hit Wednesday medium/heavy and then Friday is medium. Not for nothing but I'm getting the best results I have ever had from training this way. Three sets of 6 to 8 reps per exercise and only doing primary compound movements. So simple yet at 56 I'm "growing" on 500mgs of sus a week. For me that an HRT dose. I can't help but feel if I had done this years ago it would have been a different story for me in the sport. But who knows? I'm having fun walking around as the "jacked old man" lol It's funny a cashier in WAWA just said "dude your buff for your age, no your buff for my age dude. Where do you work out?" That kind of shit keeps me coming back for more. It's kinda like that one great golf shot that you think about all week long.

CG

 

[rcorchid]

I'm 53 and I stopped squatting 10 yrs ago - I just felt i was too old for that shit anymore. My knees and back are in great shape as are my legs (shoulders a different story). However i still do heavy leg press, Smith machine squats ATG (I'm 5'5"), hack-squat and squat machine if one is available. That being said i wish I would have done the squats in earlier years with high volume, lower weight, and worked on perfect form. But back in those days, everyone was focused on how much weight one could squat for 2 or 3 reps. Fortunately I came out of that OK and I'm missing part of my left quad due to a donorcycle accident!

 

[micro2000]

I think you guys are asking for things that just arent possible.....as far as comparing your 50 year old self with your 25 year old self

Post 50! Your past 50! Do you see any professional athletes in MLB, NFL, or NBA past 50? It is what it is....aging....and your looking for a culprit. And the culprit is your post 50!

Twenty year old Joe out playing full court basketball with the boys...I dont expect him to get hurt...if he does...bad luck

Fifty year old Joe out playing full court basketball with the boys and he tears his achilles or blows out his knee.....yea I am not surprised. Should fifty year old joe be blaming the court, his shoes, or anything else? He is fifty!

I cannot squat, deadlift or do anything poundage wise my 28-38 year old self could do in the gym...that guy was a stud...joints of steel...IM not trying to find any other reason for it than what is fact....my prime lifting years was probably 28-44ish...its just the reality of it

with that said I think the biggest mistake i see everyone do that develops knee problems is
1) Ballistic training...they bounce out of the hole on squats, hacks and whatever else in their younger years because they are trying to show off/use too much weight with shit form and they damage their knees
2) Shallow movements.....and we can argue all day about this but it is my experience that virtually every single guy Ive ever come across that did shallow nonfull movement squats to again (show off/use too much weight) ended up developing knee problems....while people who have always done deep full squats dont get those debilitating knee problems with time. Ive seen this time and time again...either ballistic out of the hole or non ass to bucket squats due to wanting to use weights that were truly too heavy to be used at that time.

I did the following when i was training people all the time and wrecked quite a few egos in the process....i had countless guys saying "my knees hurt...oh woe is me my knees etc"....and i would explain the above and you know what i would make them do? I told them im going to reteach you to squat properly and its going to be embarassing because we are starting with 25lb plates on each side and we are not going up the following weeks until you squat it deep/then a pause/and then raise (not ballistically) out of the hole for 10 reps...and we will only go up in weight until you learn how to squat properly......and you see the light goes on with them...with the "oh man i should have been doing this for all these years...I ruined myself trying to show off"

Ive squatted in probably 98% of my leg workouts for the last 30 years. Ive always squatted bigtime deep and im 6'1"....like Tenny said I have no idea how someone does half squats...my patella tendons feel like they want to snap across the room like that so no wonder so many people sacrificed knee health over form doing it that way for so many years.

Gone are the days of 450-575 squats for reps for me....thats gone. And mainly for the reasoning that I dont want to suffer a catastrophic injury at this point in my life. I do a boatload of hiking for cardio now so my whole deal is 20 reps with squatting. Ive gone over to smith squatting now because all the hiking and free squatting wears me out and again its all about injury prevention with me now. 315 for 20 rock bottom is right around the corner for me.

I do the same thing every time i train legs and have done for years...
16% menthol (FLEXALL) on my knees, with long cotton sweats under my normal sweats to keep warm
a) train hamstrings first..get a whole bunch of blood in the legs
b) always do leg press first for quads and again i do deep and use the warmup sets (deep) to get mobility in my knees....every warmup set is 12-16 reps and top work set is 12-16
c) smith squat (non counterweighted) trying to set my 20 reps record
d) one other exercise
e) adductor
f) abductor

(knee wraps on all my top end sets)

but again.....i think mostly people are expecting themselves to have the capacity their 25 year old self did....and its just not possible. I always tell people you better get some big quads when you are young (25-40ish) because you will not be able to build massive quads when you are older...you will be fighting to keep leg size at that point so you better get them large when you can.

What is your take on stance? Wide stance, shoulder width, Platz style feet close together?

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

 

[OutToLunch]

I don't think I could recover from that. My strongest day is Monday after that two days off. I then hit Wednesday medium/heavy and then Friday is medium. Not for nothing but I'm getting the best results I have ever had from training this way. Three sets of 6 to 8 reps per exercise and only doing primary compound movements. So simple yet at 56 I'm "growing" on 500mgs of sus a week. For me that an HRT dose. I can't help but feel if I had done this years ago it would have been a different story for me in the sport. But who knows? I'm having fun walking around as the "jacked old man" lol It's funny a cashier in WAWA just said "dude your buff for your age, no your buff for my age dude. Where do you work out?" That kind of shit keeps me coming back for more. It's kinda like that one great golf shot that you think about all week long.



CG

You are my hero CG. I recently came across Steve Shaw. Liked his 3 and four day full body programming. Not sure if you have seen them already. In any case. Interesting ideas. Also looking to try his rep goal system.

 

[concreteguy]

Outtolunch, Alfresco and LATS have been telling me about total body workouts and now that I'm doing them I'm sorry I haven't been doing them for my entire lifting career. Between these two guys I'm sure there are no questions that can't be answered. A true wealth of information!

Because of my body type I respond extremely well to type 2 muscle fiber training. That's lower reps with more weight. But if your more of a type 1 fiber just extent your rep windows. I would be more than happy to go more indepth but I don't want to highjack the thread.

CG

 

[n3mo0101]

Squatted today....

255x12, 265x12, 275 x 12 3 to 4 second negative on each rep

Then did leg press, seated leg curls, and calf raises.

My right knee is really sore. Not to the point where I can't use it, but I definitely feel it. I know my hips are rotated, and my gf can realign them and that helps a lot. But next week I'm going to just try hack squats and do that for a few weeks to see how I feel.

Knees are sore enough to know that if I keep doing this for 10 years my knee will be fucked.