Ralox as an AI

[Scuncknuts]

I've been taking Ralox like an AI. I just take my gear and 60 of ralox ed and when I PCT I take 120 of ralox and HCG.

Anyone know of a problem with taking lots of Ralox year round?

The only problem is finding a reputable source.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

yes

blood clots
super elevated estrogen

 

[Lumpi]

yes

blood clots
super elevated estrogen

This.

It's not an AI, its a serm. Primo can be used instead of an ai.

 

[Swifto]

I've been taking Ralox like an AI. I just take my gear and 60 of ralox ed and when I PCT I take 120 of ralox and HCG.

Anyone know of a problem with taking lots of Ralox year round?

The only problem is finding a reputable source.

As already said, Ralox is a SERM, not an AI.

Tamoxifen is also better than Ralox at raising endogenous testosterone in hypogonadal males in comparable studies.

 

[Scuncknuts]

I just tolerate Ralox a lot better. I need to get my h&h tested

 

[Reno911]

IMO some people need Ralox while using Nor-19's. There would be no reason to use it the whole year.

If you do need to use it with a Nor-19, I would take both Nattokinase and Serrapetase as well as get tested for the clotting disorders.

https://www.amazon.com/Doctors-Best-Natto-Serra-Non-GMO-Gluten/dp/B00DBEVTDE/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2D6W5JONYJ84K&keywords=dr+best+natto+serra&qid=1683932803&sprefix=dr+best+natto+serra%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-2

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

Ralox as stated is a serm meaning it lowers estrogen in certain areas of the body like lowering estrogen in breast tissue.

I can tell you if I used usually more than 280 mgs test my sex drive is lower than 140 mgs test. I can also report on 150 test and a dht derivative, whether it's oral, var, madol or inject primo, mast, sex drive is always higher with dht derivative and try dose test.



I've never seen any lab results that show ralox raises estrogen. I can't say after many years of using raloxifen, in bouts, even a 30 mgs dose with 250 mgs test only bc nipples got a bit puffy that it caused sex drive to decline. I'm thinking the opposite.

As I said I've used raloxifen on trt and cycle since at least 2017, and well my cholesterol ldl has increased , creatinine, bun gone up from more mass, that I don't use it as much bc of blood clots. I don't know if it causes blood clots 0.01 percent or 22 percent so I leave it out a quite more and even a lot more.

 

[Ace0]

yes

blood clots
super elevated estrogen

But don't AI come with their own side effects?
Whats this forums ideology between AI vs SERM use, obviously you can use both but I've heard of dudes running blasts with zero regard for estrogen because its neuroprotective, cardioprotective, and helps them grow apparently. So they just run their gear sky high with ralox/nolva with no AI.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

But don't AI come with their own side effects?
Whats this forums ideology between AI vs SERM use, obviously you can use both but I've heard of dudes running blasts with zero regard for estrogen because its neuroprotective, cardioprotective, and helps them grow apparently. So they just run their gear sky high with ralox/nolva with no AI.

Welll there’s several camps so to speak

1. No AI because they’re the devil and estrogen helps you grow, use SERM as needed

These are the guys that typically do no bloodwork and have no idea how high their estrogen is. They figure as long as their nipples aren’t sore they’re fine

2. AI only when needed because “I don’t want to crash my estrogen”, SERM as needed

These guys tend to do bloodwork, so they do have an idea of what their estrogen is, but typically are not taking enough gear to need an AI anyway

3 AI all the time because the large doses dictate such, SERM as needed

These guys may or may not do bloodwork presently, but generally have in the past, and know how what they take affects their levels. They know that they’re taking doses significant enough to need an AI so they take it.


very generalizing and i’m sure i’m missing some groups

If anyone COMPETENT would like to add, go ahead

as far as side effects from an AI, you could lower your estrogen low enough to have low estrogen symptoms like sore joints, dry skin etc. Most of the time this happens due to not knowing how your body responds and also not tailoring your AI dose to your gear

 

[Swifto]

Ralox as stated is a serm meaning it lowers estrogen in certain areas of the body like lowering estrogen in breast tissue.

I can tell you if I used usually more than 280 mgs test my sex drive is lower than 140 mgs test. I can also report on 150 test and a dht derivative, whether it's oral, var, madol or inject primo, mast, sex drive is always higher with dht derivative and try dose test.



I've never seen any lab results that show ralox raises estrogen. I can't say after many years of using raloxifen, in bouts, even a 30 mgs dose with 250 mgs test only bc nipples got a bit puffy that it caused sex drive to decline. I'm thinking the opposite.

As I said I've used raloxifen on trt and cycle since at least 2017, and well my cholesterol ldl has increased , creatinine, bun gone up from more mass, that I don't use it as much bc of blood clots. I don't know if it causes blood clots 0.01 percent or 22 percent so I leave it out a quite more and even a lot more.

It blocks the estrogen receptor (ER) in certain tissues, it doesn't "lower estrogen".

It also expresses the ER in other tissues (agonist).

 

[finephysique]

Ralox gave me terrible acne so I just can’t use it. It does get rid of that puffy nipple look unlike any other drug for estrogen for me.

 

[Fa Seeshus]

I like ralox, but for coming off cycle, toremifine or nolva just work better.

Concurrent AI and SERM use can actually help you get less sides out of them and better results with lower doses.

You need blood work for a variety of reasons though. These compounds will effect your blood calcium. Calcium, like potassium, magnesium, etc has to be in the blood in the correct amount. If these are off it will make you feel lousy and can mess with your heart too.

I use ralox with my trt, but also take 81 mg aspirin, nattokinase and fish oils to help counter the clotting risk.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

Raloxifen is the only serm that causes estrogen to go into bone, causing bones to be more healthy.

Nolva, clomid all take away estrogen in bones causing more brittle bones.

That's what I'm wondering about clot risk, how high is it. I take 4500 epa and 2400 dha daily.

 

[Ace0]

Welll there’s several camps so to speak

Which camp would you place yourself? It seems camp 3 is the one that’s more favourable.
What about the whole test to e2 ratio? What exactly are people looking for on blood work because the concept of having 10x test but keeping e2 in range is something that gets critiqued.
Don’t mean to bombard you with questions like this, but there is lots of misinformation everywhere and the guys on this forum seem more credible than most others.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Which camp would you place yourself? It seems camp 3 is the one that’s more favourable.
What about the whole test to e2 ratio? What exactly are people looking for on blood work because the concept of having 10x test but keeping e2 in range is something that gets critiqued.
Don’t mean to bombard you with questions like this, but there is lots of misinformation everywhere and the guys on this forum seem more credible than most others.

#3
keeping e2 in the normal range is preferable

 

[g.r.o.w.t.h.]

IMO some people need Ralox while using Nor-19's. There would be no reason to use it the whole year.

If you do need to use it with a Nor-19, I would take both Nattokinase and Serrapetase as well as get tested for the clotting disorders.

https://www.amazon.com/Doctors-Best-Natto-Serra-Non-GMO-Gluten/dp/B00DBEVTDE/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2D6W5JONYJ84K&keywords=dr+best+natto+serra&qid=1683932803&sprefix=dr+best+natto+serra%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-2

Why raloxifene with 19-nor? Failing to make the connection as to why anyone would need raloxifene specifically with a 19-nor. Enlighten me.

 

[Reno911]

Why raloxifene with 19-nor? Failing to make the connection as to why anyone would need raloxifene specifically with a 19-nor. Enlighten me.

I don't have any science here to back it up but I think some guys will still get nip flare ups while taking a Nor-19 with an AI. A SERM seems to help limit this better than an AI. I think that the estrogen conversion from a Nor-19 also revs up prolactin which a SERM can help and an AI cannot.

(I'm mostly thinking to use the SERM to prevent nip/gyno issues- really nothing else so if I guy is not prone then an AI is probably ok.). As always trial, error, experience, and bloodwork will be different for everyone.

 

[pickapeck]

yes

blood clots
super elevated estrogen

Have we ever seen anyone on the board that had blood clots from roloxifen?

 

[Lumpi]

Have we ever seen anyone on the board that had blood clots from roloxifen?

Better question is if they were lucky enough to survive that. John Maedows took tamoxifen for years and sadly he didn’t survive his last blood clot.

 

[pickapeck]

Better question is if they were lucky enough to survive that. John Maedows took tamoxifen for years and sadly he didn’t survive his last blood clot.

You are really making a stretch there. He had heart disease. You are extrapolating a single incidence without any evidence in an individual with co-morbidities and using his unfortunate demise as justification that all bodybuilders that use nolvadex are at great risk for embolism. The data that linked nolvadex to said risk was derived from meta analysis of post menopausal women with advanced breast cancer in continuous treatment for over a decade.