Recombinant IGF-1

[ramacher]

Hey guys and gals, just curious to know how many of you would be interested in purchasing recombinant IGF-1. This is a 70 amino acid chain sequence, which differs from the more marketable LR3 IGF-1, which is 83 amino acid chain. Ron from Genesis Peptides would like to hear your input.

 

[chemicalwarrior]

Is this the original, short-acting igf-1? If so, I'm guessing some would be interested in it for site enhancement. But, I've been hearing a lot of good things about the combo of DES igf-1 and igf-2 lr3.

I think it'd be a great thing if we could pool our collective intellects and experiences and come up with the utmost effective igf-1 type of protocol that people would be very satisfied with. To me, when there is a question of "is it working? Is it not working?..." etc. that's a sign that everything isn't in place. With all the new igf's out there right now it'd be good to gather more info and even have some folks do some runs/experiments on themselves to find out just what works and how. (yes, I'm hinting that I'd like to be a test mouse...)

That's my 2 cents anyway. Also, Ron is the most dedicated guy I know when it comes to customer service and I think the bottom line is that his heart is always in this and in the right place!

 

[ramacher]

IGF-1

Yes, this is the short chain amino acid for short acting.

 

[Genesis Peptides]

Thank you Chem I truly appreciate the kind words. I have had a heart to heart with you on my love for this recreation and I will take it to my grave. This is the greatest sport alive, plain,pure and simple.

 

[chemicalwarrior]

Will be calling you for sure Ron. I just bought so much ipa and cjc last time that I'm still well stocked for the time being. I'll be following your new products and how everything is going and you'll be hearing from me next order.

Stuff is still working well. I'm off the igf-1 lr3 and mgf for now (did my 4 weeks). But, still rolling on the ipa and cjc and it still seems potent even 5 weeks in! Not saying how much potency might have been lost and will probably order smaller vials next time, but just saying I still "feel" it- in fact feeling it as I type right now, just took my inject.

 

[mmk64]

What price range are we talkin here?

 

[Genesis Peptides]

Last time I checked it was between $230.00 and $260.00 for a 1mg vial.

 

[chemicalwarrior]

Now I could be totally off- please correct me if so because I want to learn! But, I think that the reason there is a call for the original rigf-1 is because people aren't truly seeing the site-enhancement results with the 1-lr3. I believe the reason for this is because it is an 83 amino chain and the body doesn't really put it to use the same way. It's still effective in other ways, but it's not like the recumbent form, which was a 70 amino acid chain. Because of the 13 amino acid extension it is resistant to being broken down by igf binding proteins. Some say this makes it more effective, but, why would it when part of the process that helps make igf-1 usable is having it "metabolised" by the biding proteins? Though some regular igf-1 is destroyed, what is left is what is actually usable by the satellite cells as partially broken down igf-1- a 67 amino form. This is supposedly what makes DES (1-3) igf-1 so potent.

With any igf-1 drug you are only getting a portion of the amount injected because of how it is broken down. With the rigf-1 you actually want it somewhat broken down by binding proteins so that the useable portion (67 amino acid chain) is left. Why not flood the muscle with DES (1-3) igf-1 to begin with? It's already in the most useable form and is said to be resistant to igf binding protiens.

Also, igf-2 lr3 is supposedly different than 1-lr3 because it is still a 70 amino acid chain vs an 83. And, if I'm reading articles/abstracts correctly, actually protects other igf-1 products from binding proteins when combined with them. I could have that totally wrong, but that's what I'm getting with it. I think that's why people are mixing igf-2 with other igfs and claiming great results.

Just throwing ideas around here. I don't think we need original rigf-1, but DES and igf-2 lr3 look very interesting! We're looking for that bio-available amino acid sequence and these two seem to have it.

 

[chemicalwarrior]

Ok, re-reading what I just wrote it looks like I got some of it wrong. Here's a stolen quote from another forum- they didn't reference where it came from:

"DES (1-3) IGF-1 (NOT THE SAME AS IGF-1)
Most athletes have heard of IGF-1 (insulin like growth factor-1) and the amazing anabolic effects it has been reported to have upon Protein based tissue such as muscle. Des (1-3) IGF-1 is over 10 times (1000%) more anabolic than IGF-1. Now that is amazing!!
IGF-1 is actually produced from both insulin and growth hormone in the Liver and other tissues. IGF-1 is made up of 70 amino acids in a chain. Well, when a clever chemist removes the last 3 amino acids in the IGF-1 chain (the N-terminal tri-peptide) it becomes Des (1-3) IGF-1 and 1000% plus more anabolic. Why? IGF-1 circulates through our blood stream and tissue 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Unfortunately, most of the IGF-1 is inactive because it is bound by another Protein called (get this) IGF-1 Binding Protein-3, or IGF-1-BP-3 for short. Since bound hormones can not fit into and trigger a receptor-site, the majority of circulating and muscle IGF-1 can not trigger an anabolic stimulus. Like tons of cellulite in a porno movie (who watches those?) there is little good stuff happening. However, when IGF-1 is altered and becomes Des (1-3) IGF-1 the binding Protein IGF-1-BP-3 can not bind to it and it is totally active. Another reason Des (1-3) IGF-1 is so potent is its unique ability to fit into lactic acid altered IGF-1 receptor sites. (YUP) When we train we burn carbohydrates as a fuel to make cellular ATP. When cells switch to this ATP pathway, the by-product is Lactic Acid. This is of course the cause of most of the burn we feel during intense or higher rep sets. Well, the lactic acid build-up is called acidosis, and it destroys the shape of some receptor-sites for period of time. Therefore some anabolic/anti-catabolic hormones have difficulty merging with their respective receptor- site and triggering a response (such as even unbound IGF-1). Not so with Des (1-3) IGF- 1, the super growth factor. It fits into the IGF-1 receptor-site even after acidosis. Des (1- 3) IGF-1 is unbound, over 10 times more potent than IGF-1, and it picks receptor-site locks. Too bad it has only a few minute active-life.
Did you know that our body's make Des (1-3) IGF-1 naturally? Most un-informed individuals claim other wise, but it is true. When an athlete trains lactic acid builds up in muscle tissue. As we know, there is always IGF-1 / GH present in the blood stream and tissues (including muscle) from prior work-outs and other metabolic factors. That lactic acid burn triggers IGF-1/GH secretion from both prior and present work-outs. Unfortunately, lactic acid destroys some of the IGF-1 present in muscles being trained. But wait, this is good too!
Lactic acid also cuts (truncates) the last 3 amino acids off the 70 amino acid chain of "some" of the surviving IGF-1 and creates Des (I-3) IGF-1. So acidosis increases GH/IGF-1 production in the Liver, "unbinds" IGF-1 locally in the muscle being trained (burned), destroys some of the IGF-1, and converts some IGF-1 into Des (I-3) IGF-1. Huh, good deal. And the synthetic form of this super anabolic stuff is beginning to show up on the black market more frequently.


* The Protein binds less well to IGF-binding proteins and is generally approximately 10-fold more potent than IGF-1 at stimulating hypertrophy and proliferation of cultured cells. REFERENCES: Ballard FJ Des(1-3)IGF-I: a truncated form of insulin-like growth factor-I. International Journal of Biochemistry and Cell Biology 28(10): 1085-1087 (1996)

 

[mr. boom]

This may solve or narrow things down a bit.. When a person takes hgh their results mostly happen as a result of when it's broken down in the liver and our bodies natural igf is released.. So we know that our own natural igf works.. So how many amino acid is our own natural IGF??

 

[Seabiscuit Hogg]

Thanks Chem, good read.

 

[Genesis Peptides]

Chem, you have gone above and beyond the call of duty with your post, one of the best to date. Nice going bro, talk about informative. I am going to contact my lab and see what I can do about getting DES made for us. I just want it to be price friendly for everyone. Stay tuned guys I hope to have some type of answer tomorrow from the lab on price.

 

[ramacher]

DES

Yes, would love to hear how much this compound would cost!

 

[mmk64]

I don't think the LR3 version is a good option for hyperplasia because it is weaker than the unaltered version. It definitely causes intestinal growth down the line, which is why I'm weary of it. This is because it enters the systemic circulation and floats around for hours and is most likely to encounter intestinal IGF receptors rather than the relatively few receptors in muscle. Also, the LR3 version has quite a bit lower affinity for the IGF-1 receptor than hIGF-1, I believe, so even with site injections there won't be huge amount of intramuscular IGF-1 receptor activation before it enters the circulation (all we need is for the receptor to be activated, it doesn't matter how many times hence there is no benefit for it to stay in the blood stream). That's why I'm interested in the hIGF-1 which has a half life of 10-15 minutes and can bind to its carrier protein in the blood and prevent intestinal growth. This 70 amino acid version has a stronger affinity for the IGF receptor so injecting it into a muscle (especially when it has peak receptor density) will illicit a strong intracellular response, and it'll be degraded soon after, possibly resulting in hyperplasia and no ill effects. That's my limited understanding of it, so take it with a grain of salt. Although I'm still not convinced that hyperplasia can occur other than from paracrine IGF-1 signaling...I would love to see some results!

Also, I thought I heard that the 70 amino acid version is very sensitive and can not be shipped and degrades quickly etc etc...is there any validity to this?

 

[mmk64]

This may solve or narrow things down a bit.. When a person takes hgh their results mostly happen as a result of when it's broken down in the liver and our bodies natural igf is released.. So we know that our own natural igf works.. So how many amino acid is our own natural IGF??

I believe our natural IGF-1 is the same as this 70 amino acid recombinant IGF-1. But the thing is, even though the IGF-1 molecule in the body is the same, the method of its release determines whether its anabolic or not. Most of the IGF-1 is released from the liver doesn't cause hyperplasia in muscle cells. A small amount is released by muscle cells themselves in the immediate vicinity of these cells and this is called paracrine signaling. I think this is the only way that hyperplasia can occur. The trick is being able to imitate this natural process by intramuscular injections, and I've heard both that it is possible and that it is not possible. The best choice would be this recombinant version.

 

[mmk64]

Ok, re-reading what I just wrote it looks like I got some of it wrong. Here's a stolen quote from another forum- they didn't reference where it came from:

"DES (1-3) IGF-1 (NOT THE SAME AS IGF-1)
Most athletes have heard of IGF-1 (insulin like growth factor-1) and the amazing anabolic effects it has been reported to have upon Protein based tissue such as muscle. Des (1-3) IGF-1 is over 10 times (1000%) more anabolic than IGF-1. Now that is amazing!!
IGF-1 is actually produced from both insulin and growth hormone in the Liver and other tissues. IGF-1 is made up of 70 amino acids in a chain. Well, when a clever chemist removes the last 3 amino acids in the IGF-1 chain (the N-terminal tri-peptide) it becomes Des (1-3) IGF-1 and 1000% plus more anabolic. Why? IGF-1 circulates through our blood stream and tissue 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Unfortunately, most of the IGF-1 is inactive because it is bound by another Protein called (get this) IGF-1 Binding Protein-3, or IGF-1-BP-3 for short. Since bound hormones can not fit into and trigger a receptor-site, the majority of circulating and muscle IGF-1 can not trigger an anabolic stimulus. Like tons of cellulite in a porno movie (who watches those?) there is little good stuff happening. However, when IGF-1 is altered and becomes Des (1-3) IGF-1 the binding Protein IGF-1-BP-3 can not bind to it and it is totally active. Another reason Des (1-3) IGF-1 is so potent is its unique ability to fit into lactic acid altered IGF-1 receptor sites. (YUP) When we train we burn carbohydrates as a fuel to make cellular ATP. When cells switch to this ATP pathway, the by-product is Lactic Acid. This is of course the cause of most of the burn we feel during intense or higher rep sets. Well, the lactic acid build-up is called acidosis, and it destroys the shape of some receptor-sites for period of time. Therefore some anabolic/anti-catabolic hormones have difficulty merging with their respective receptor- site and triggering a response (such as even unbound IGF-1). Not so with Des (1-3) IGF- 1, the super growth factor. It fits into the IGF-1 receptor-site even after acidosis. Des (1- 3) IGF-1 is unbound, over 10 times more potent than IGF-1, and it picks receptor-site locks. Too bad it has only a few minute active-life.
Did you know that our body's make Des (1-3) IGF-1 naturally? Most un-informed individuals claim other wise, but it is true. When an athlete trains lactic acid builds up in muscle tissue. As we know, there is always IGF-1 / GH present in the blood stream and tissues (including muscle) from prior work-outs and other metabolic factors. That lactic acid burn triggers IGF-1/GH secretion from both prior and present work-outs. Unfortunately, lactic acid destroys some of the IGF-1 present in muscles being trained. But wait, this is good too!
Lactic acid also cuts (truncates) the last 3 amino acids off the 70 amino acid chain of "some" of the surviving IGF-1 and creates Des (I-3) IGF-1. So acidosis increases GH/IGF-1 production in the Liver, "unbinds" IGF-1 locally in the muscle being trained (burned), destroys some of the IGF-1, and converts some IGF-1 into Des (I-3) IGF-1. Huh, good deal. And the synthetic form of this super anabolic stuff is beginning to show up on the black market more frequently.


* The Protein binds less well to IGF-binding proteins and is generally approximately 10-fold more potent than IGF-1 at stimulating hypertrophy and proliferation of cultured cells. REFERENCES: Ballard FJ Des(1-3)IGF-I: a truncated form of insulin-like growth factor-I. International Journal of Biochemistry and Cell Biology 28(10): 1085-1087 (1996)

Sorry for the repeated posts, maybe a mod can combine them because I don't know how...but this Des-IGF-1 sounds interesting, I've never heard of it. The fact that it doesn't bind to the carrier protein and it has a very strong affinity for IGF receptors is kind of scary (ahh intestine growth!)...but the fact that it has a short half life may offset that....it would be nice to see kinetic data for the Des, recombinant, and LR3 version as far as receptor affinities go...

 

[chemicalwarrior]

This may solve or narrow things down a bit.. When a person takes hgh their results mostly happen as a result of when it's broken down in the liver and our bodies natural igf is released.. So we know that our own natural igf works.. So how many amino acid is our own natural IGF??

It's 70. But, like the article I quoted (Found out it was from Author L. Rea from one of his books, like his writing!) stated, even that is broken down into DES igf-1 by lactic acid. DES sounds very very exciting on paper and the few reports I've read about people using it sound very promising!

mmk64, I hear you about the intestinal growth thing. That's one of my concerns since I use a variety of peptides. But, yes, I think the short half life would very much protect us from intestinal growth.

Here's an article I wrote yesterday explaining some of my thinking on all this (I post as another name on another forum, for those who saw it there also)-
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/articles-forum/64045-trying-understand-igfs.html#post844554

Basically, the more I distill this information the more I believe that the best approach would be something like a combo of IGF-2 LR3 (because, it too is 70 amino acids, not 83 so it's more useable than 1-lr3. Plus, it protects and has a synergistic effect with other IGFs!), DES (1-3) IGF-1 (for obvious and reasons already stated) and regular MGF (it's cheap and you'll use the 2 mg in a month or so anyway so you'll have good, active product for the most part through the whole run.)

I don't think it matters that these are in and out of the system so quickly. DES is resistant to being made inactive by binding proteins and destroyed by lactic acid, so where's the downside? IGF-2 LR3 protects and gives synergy and MGF does what it does- helps with hyperplasia!


Right now I'm finishing up my batch of igf-1 lr3 and peg-mgf basically because I already have it and I believe it will still bring decent results: I don't think peg-mgf is that bad, but will try regular soon enough. And, having the insulin like effects present from 1-lr3 can't hurt even if it itself isn't the best for inducing growth.

Ron, thanks so much for listening to all this and taking it in! We need a good, solid supplier of des and igf-2 that we can trust! I can understand if the numbers just don't work as most of us meatheads are kinda broke. But, if it's doable, I think the trend towards these newer drugs will start to show itself. Especially if we all start seeing great results!

 

[theunion]

Chem, you have gone above and beyond the call of duty with your post, one of the best to date. Nice going bro, talk about informative. I am going to contact my lab and see what I can do about getting DES made for us. I just want it to be price friendly for everyone. Stay tuned guys I hope to have some type of answer tomorrow from the lab on price.

Do you think there is any more benefit for hyperplasia and muscle growth from using IGF-1 Des moreso than if we were to use IGF-1 LR3?

Since it is so short acting, would we still use Des prewo?

Also: Do you find any more results from using PEGmgf vs MGF?

 

[Genesis Peptides]

It's 70. But, like the article I quoted (Found out it was from Author L. Rea from one of his books, like his writing!) stated, even that is broken down into DES igf-1 by lactic acid. DES sounds very very exciting on paper and the few reports I've read about people using it sound very promising!

mmk64, I hear you about the intestinal growth thing. That's one of my concerns since I use a variety of peptides. But, yes, I think the short half life would very much protect us from intestinal growth.

Here's an article I wrote yesterday explaining some of my thinking on all this (I post as another name on another forum, for those who saw it there also)-
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/articles-forum/64045-trying-understand-igfs.html#post844554

Basically, the more I distill this information the more I believe that the best approach would be something like a combo of IGF-2 LR3 (because, it too is 70 amino acids, not 83 so it's more useable than 1-lr3. Plus, it protects and has a synergistic effect with other IGFs!), DES (1-3) IGF-1 (for obvious and reasons already stated) and regular MGF (it's cheap and you'll use the 2 mg in a month or so anyway so you'll have good, active product for the most part through the whole run.)

I don't think it matters that these are in and out of the system so quickly. DES is resistant to being made inactive by binding proteins and destroyed by lactic acid, so where's the downside? IGF-2 LR3 protects and gives synergy and MGF does what it does- helps with hyperplasia!


Right now I'm finishing up my batch of igf-1 lr3 and peg-mgf basically because I already have it and I believe it will still bring decent results: I don't think peg-mgf is that bad, but will try regular soon enough. And, having the insulin like effects present from 1-lr3 can't hurt even if it itself isn't the best for inducing growth.

Ron, thanks so much for listening to all this and taking it in! We need a good, solid supplier of des and igf-2 that we can trust! I can understand if the numbers just don't work as most of us meatheads are kinda broke. But, if it's doable, I think the trend towards these newer drugs will start to show itself. Especially if we all start seeing great results!

Chem, I think you know me well enough by now that I will always go the extra mile for my guys, for several reasons I will do that, but if we can nail this down and I get back some decent quotes I will let everyone know today if possible what we are facing for numbers and if I get enough commitment after I post the notification then we can roll from there, I love the support and camaraderie we have for each other, the fact that we are always trying to improve our bodies and minds speaks volumes of the passion and love we have for this sport. I will always try and help our community in any way possible, it's not always about making money, it's about the dedication each of us has to try and better our selves everytime we step foot in the gym

 

[kalika]

Chem, you have gone above and beyond the call of duty with your post, one of the best to date. Nice going bro, talk about informative. I am going to contact my lab and see what I can do about getting DES made for us. I just want it to be price friendly for everyone. Stay tuned guys I hope to have some type of answer tomorrow from the lab on price.

ya, I would be down to try it as well brother.