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Running hgh without AAS

makaveli25

Member
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Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
374
Im coming off my latest cycle of test and dbol.. My pct will start in a couple of weeks.. I have some gh on the way.. What is the best way to use hgh to help maintain some muscle. I was thinking of starting at 2 ius then working my way up to 4 or 5 and keeping it there for six months.. Ive never used hgh before soo im pretty excited
 
Sounds like a good plan....I'd consider running it 5/2 and move your way up. No need to run it 7 days a wk IMHO.
 
Sounds like a good plan....I'd consider running it 5/2 and move your way up. No need to run it 7 days a wk IMHO.

Maybe I am missing something but the only reason I see why people do not run it ED is to save money. Will you please explain why 5/2 is better than ED?
 
Maybe I am missing something but the only reason I see why people do not run it ED is to save money. Will you please explain why 5/2 is better than ED?

Yea I have heard that it is a waste to run it 5/2. I am planning on running 7 days a week, but if I can run 5/2 and save money and hgh, by all means, id love too...
 
4 month before my last contest i used 4 ui of blue top everyday even in the saturday and sunday so 7 days a week,and i was enormous and lean.
 
Maybe I am missing something but the only reason I see why people do not run it ED is to save money. Will you please explain why 5/2 is better than ED?

I read a study someplace that compared subjects that took it 5/2 and 7 days a week. The study showed that both got near identical results. Also, check out Gavin's research..

From Gavin....

I am happy to help you out bro as it is critical to get the timing sequence down for optimal growth. I have been personally testing different protocols with igf use, having done over 20 different cycles and timing schedules. I also have a few competitive bodybuilders and test subjects off-season testing my new protocols. I have nailed down what I feel is the best protocol at this time, though everything is subject to change as I keep researching.

For now I have found that less is more. I highly recommend using a minimal schedule for all short chain sequence peptides, which include igf, insulin and even gh. I recommend using no more than 3 days per week, 2 days is fine, but no more than 3. The reason for this is that we are trying to prevent cell over-saturation and closure. All three products should be used in a similar manner.

The protocol is as follows; inject all products post workout, preferably after training large muscle groups which cause the most glycogen depletion, hence providing faster uptake of peptides. A sample layout is to inject Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

Immediately post-workout inject 10-15iu of growth hormone IM, using a insulin pin and inject in any small muscle group such as delts, triceps, or biceps. Wait 20 minutes for the half-life clearance and conversion to igf to begin its sequence from the growth hormone and then inject a small dose of igf to create a synergistic super charge of the conversion process. I would recommend no more than 30mcg at this time. 10 minutes later you will take Humalog insulin only, and inject 5iu. I recommend starting with 5iu because Humalog has a very rapid onset and is easy to control with sugar. In conjunction with igf, you will be hyper-sensitive to insulin so start small and slowly work your way up to a maximum dose of 12iu post-workout. You will want to have around 80-100 grams of simple sugars such as dextrose and grape juice and an additional 60 grams of whey protein at the same time as your insulin. You will then eat another moderate glycemic index meal one hour after your high glycemic shake.

The reason for the high dose growth hormone is to take what would normally be your one week intake of gh and spread it out into 3 equal doses, injected pwo. This will create a truly anabolic rich environment and you will also benefit from full uptake due to your pwo depleted state.
So there is our post-workout regime, 3 days per week. Certainly you should take more than this, shouldn’t you? For most lifters, this protocol will be sufficient for growth. For someone with at least 6 months of gh use, 5 or more cycles of insulin and who no longer responds to typical igf protocols, the following regime may be followed: In addition to the above outline post-workout method, you may add additional doses of igf as well as insulin on the same day as your post-workout injection.

I would highly recommend you take 15mcg igf an additional two times per day. By taking less igf more often you will prevent cell over-saturation as well as receptor down-regulation. Creating a cell rich environment that saturates the cells infrequently will target massive cell proliferation. In addition you will take insulin 20 minutes after the igf on those 2 additional injections creating an anabolic rich environment that will last all day, 3 days per week.
For a sample protocol for someone that works out after work, I would recommend you do the following: Take 15mcg upon rising in the morning, followed by 10iu Humulin R or Humalog 20 minutes later. Immediately eat a carbohydrate rich meal with quality protein and low fat such as bananas, oatmeal and egg whites.
For lunch, take another 15mcg igf with 10iu insulin and have another moderate glycemic carbohydrate meal and protein with minimal fats. Follow the above listed pwo protocol to complete your three time injection schedule which will be used three times per week.

If you follow the outline laid out for you above to the letter, you will put on a massive amount of lean mass with a minimal amount of fat. You will need an anabolic and androgen rich environment to complete the schedule such as testosterone and tren in addition to the peptide products. T3 and T4 will not be necessary on this schedule as your thyroid levels will not be affected.
 
Last edited:
Did Gavin ever say anywhere why you must wait to inject your slin 20-30min after the GH? Im curious to this as other well informed bro's like Dat say slin and Gh can be injected at same time.
 
EOD is fine ...5 on 2 off is from way back.
 
EOD is fine ...5 on 2 off is from way back.

I have to admit, I am hearing more and more talk about guys who started going EOD from 5/2.

I also understand that a lot of guys are going IM with bigger doses. None of my bros that I know use it 7 days a week any more though.

I was going to wait until month 6 to change my schedule (was doing 6iu 5/2), I'm at month 3 now and am going to start using EOD as of tmro (but keep the same weekly dose). :)
 
I went from 3iu's 5 on 2 off to 5iu's EOD, and I like eod better
 
I think for now on im gonna take my weekly dose and do EOD when leaning more towards dieting and do MWF when wanting to put on more size.
 
I read a study someplace that compared subjects that took it 5/2 and 7 days a week. The study showed that both got near identical results. Also, check out Gavin's research..

From Gavin....

I am happy to help you out bro as it is critical to get the timing sequence down for optimal growth. I have been personally testing different protocols with igf use, having done over 20 different cycles and timing schedules. I also have a few competitive bodybuilders and test subjects off-season testing my new protocols. I have nailed down what I feel is the best protocol at this time, though everything is subject to change as I keep researching.

For now I have found that less is more. I highly recommend using a minimal schedule for all short chain sequence peptides, which include igf, insulin and even gh. I recommend using no more than 3 days per week, 2 days is fine, but no more than 3. The reason for this is that we are trying to prevent cell over-saturation and closure. All three products should be used in a similar manner.

The protocol is as follows; inject all products post workout, preferably after training large muscle groups which cause the most glycogen depletion, hence providing faster uptake of peptides. A sample layout is to inject Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

Immediately post-workout inject 10-15iu of growth hormone IM, using a insulin pin and inject in any small muscle group such as delts, triceps, or biceps. Wait 20 minutes for the half-life clearance and conversion to igf to begin its sequence from the growth hormone and then inject a small dose of igf to create a synergistic super charge of the conversion process. I would recommend no more than 30mcg at this time. 10 minutes later you will take Humalog insulin only, and inject 5iu. I recommend starting with 5iu because Humalog has a very rapid onset and is easy to control with sugar. In conjunction with igf, you will be hyper-sensitive to insulin so start small and slowly work your way up to a maximum dose of 12iu post-workout. You will want to have around 80-100 grams of simple sugars such as dextrose and grape juice and an additional 60 grams of whey protein at the same time as your insulin. You will then eat another moderate glycemic index meal one hour after your high glycemic shake.

The reason for the high dose growth hormone is to take what would normally be your one week intake of gh and spread it out into 3 equal doses, injected pwo. This will create a truly anabolic rich environment and you will also benefit from full uptake due to your pwo depleted state.
So there is our post-workout regime, 3 days per week. Certainly you should take more than this, shouldn’t you? For most lifters, this protocol will be sufficient for growth. For someone with at least 6 months of gh use, 5 or more cycles of insulin and who no longer responds to typical igf protocols, the following regime may be followed: In addition to the above outline post-workout method, you may add additional doses of igf as well as insulin on the same day as your post-workout injection.

I would highly recommend you take 15mcg igf an additional two times per day. By taking less igf more often you will prevent cell over-saturation as well as receptor down-regulation. Creating a cell rich environment that saturates the cells infrequently will target massive cell proliferation. In addition you will take insulin 20 minutes after the igf on those 2 additional injections creating an anabolic rich environment that will last all day, 3 days per week.
For a sample protocol for someone that works out after work, I would recommend you do the following: Take 15mcg upon rising in the morning, followed by 10iu Humulin R or Humalog 20 minutes later. Immediately eat a carbohydrate rich meal with quality protein and low fat such as bananas, oatmeal and egg whites.
For lunch, take another 15mcg igf with 10iu insulin and have another moderate glycemic carbohydrate meal and protein with minimal fats. Follow the above listed pwo protocol to complete your three time injection schedule which will be used three times per week.

If you follow the outline laid out for you above to the letter, you will put on a massive amount of lean mass with a minimal amount of fat. You will need an anabolic and androgen rich environment to complete the schedule such as testosterone and tren in addition to the peptide products. T3 and T4 will not be necessary on this schedule as your thyroid levels will not be affected.

Victor,

But how long can a person run this cycle safe with igf/slin use in this cycle?
Normally a person stops using slin and igf after a week off 6.
Could you please explain this to me?
This article sounds very intresting to mee.

Thanks
 
Victor,

But how long can a person run this cycle safe with igf/slin use in this cycle?
Normally a person stops using slin and igf after a week off 6.
Could you please explain this to me?
This article sounds very intresting to mee.

Thanks

I'm sorry, but I can't give you a concrete answer to your question. However, if one plans to follow the above guidelines, I would think it's best to have bloodwork done on a regular basis. I've heard of guys coming off slin and igf at week 6 like you said, and I also know guys that run these kinds of programs year round. And according to his guidelines, slin and igf are to be used only 3X a week, where as in most other programs, you see it being run a lot more frequently.

So is it safe to run slin and IGF during the entire time of a 12 week bulk cycle, I don't know. And that's the reason why I think having blood drawn regularly to see where you are at is vital, especially if you push past the 6 week period. If you were to run it for only 6 weeks during a cycle...would it be best to run it in (slin w/igf) during the first 6 weeks, or last 6. Or maybe run the igf/slin during the middle? Once again, I don't know and having bloodwork done to check is the only answer I can come up with.

Good questions though, hopefully some of the vets can chime in and answer some of this for us.
 
Last edited:
Still no answer or schould i post it in an other section?
 
^^Yeah bro, go ahead and ask in the PM forum. They get 20X the amount of traffic/viewers over there.

I'm sure someone will be able to shed some light for us. Post the link to your thread here when you are done. Thanks!
 

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