STRENGHT OR BODYBUILDING SPLIT?

[maldorf]

What do you think right now?

Day 1 Upper body
BENCH HEAVY DAY
-Chin ups 4x10
-incline bench or pin bench 4x8-10
-dumbell lateral raises 4x8-10
-Hammer curls 3x10

Day 2 push
-BENCH LIGHT DAY
-dumbell press shoulders 4x8-10
-dips 4x8
-skullcrushers 4x8-10

Day 1 Pull
-DL HEAVY DAY
-Dumbell rows 5x8-10
-Facepulls 4x20
-Curl Scott with dbs 4x8

Legs day 1
Squat heavy day hatfields progression
Dumbell Deadlift 4x15
Calves & abs

Legs day 2
squat light day
Leg curl 4x12-15
Calves

It has been many many years since I did the routine but I think what I did went something like this:


Monday

Light Squat- Hatfield protocol
leg curls 3 sets
Light Bench- Hatfield protocol
Dumbell Laterals 3 sets
Tricep Pushdowns 3 sets
Standing calf 5 sets

Wednesday

Heavy Deadlift- Hatfield protocol
Bentover rows 5 sets
Pull ups or pulldowns 5 sets
Barbell curl or incline dumbbell curls 5 sets
Abs

Friday

Heavy Squat -Hatfield protocol
Leg extension 3 sets
Leg curls 3 sets
Heavy Bench Hatfield protocol
Dumbell laterals 3 sets
Pushdowns or skull crushers 3 sets
Seated Calf 5 sets

Just 3 days a week training. I didn't do any cardio. I usually put on about 20 lbs on my bench and 45 lbs or so on my squat. Deadlift was about 30 lbs or so. Squat was always my strongest movement. That was after having trained consistently for at least 4 or 5 years though. If you are just starting out I bet you will put on more. It is all a % of your max though, so your numbers may differ.

 

[angus62]

I have run that exact program peaking for a meet and it is brutal. My suggestion to you is combine the light squat with the heavy deadlift or skip the light squats all together. So you have two lower days a week. One is your heavy squat day and the other is your light squats followed by deads. They will serve as a good warmup for deadlifts. What I found was you may not need to squat at all on the second day and just pull deadlifts. If you want to think of it more like a bodybuilder then one day for more quad emphasis with the squats and one for hamstrings with the deadlifts. I promise that everything will get hit and you may give your body a chance to actually recover and grow. You try squatting twice a week and then throwing in a deadlift day plus two upperbody days on top of that and it will probably not turn out good.

 

[OutToLunch]

Yes he did when he was coming up. He just said that he got so strong that he kept injuring his lower back so he switched to leg press and hacks.

Does Phil Heath squat or deadlift?

 

[maldorf]

I have run that exact program peaking for a meet and it is brutal. My suggestion to you is combine the light squat with the heavy deadlift or skip the light squats all together. So you have two lower days a week. One is your heavy squat day and the other is your light squats followed by deads. They will serve as a good warmup for deadlifts. What I found was you may not need to squat at all on the second day and just pull deadlifts. If you want to think of it more like a bodybuilder then one day for more quad emphasis with the squats and one for hamstrings with the deadlifts. I promise that everything will get hit and you may give your body a chance to actually recover and grow. You try squatting twice a week and then throwing in a deadlift day plus two upperbody days on top of that and it will probably not turn out good.

It worked out well for me each time I ran it, but I was already conditioned pretty well. I never had any issue with having the light squat day in there. The light bench day though took a bit of a toll on my shoulders. There was at least one time that all I did was mostly the 3 big lifts and very little assistance work. I grained great strength just doing that. Fred Hatfield said it was a program he got from Russia. I still have the Muscle and Fitness magazine I got it from, it was back in the late 80s I think.

 

[angus62]

It worked out well for me each time I ran it, but I was already conditioned pretty well. I never had any issue with having the light squat day in there. The light bench day though took a bit of a toll on my shoulders. There was at least one time that all I did was mostly the 3 big lifts and very little assistance work. I grained great strength just doing that. Fred Hatfield said it was a program he got from Russia. I still have the Muscle and Fitness magazine I got it from, it was back in the late 80s I think.

Thats cool. I got it from a college strength coach that used to compete in powerlifting. I was fine with the light bench day but the building the volume with the heavy weight for 6x5 on squats and deads took a toll. I still remember doing 6x5 with 495 in the squat and 6x5 with 530 for the pulls. Those were two of the hardest workouts of my life. Definitely something I wouldn't want to keep repeating. The russian squat routine is very similar except it goes to 6x6 and slowly tapers the volume. My normal training was more similar to Coans. A few heavy sets on squat day followed by assistance (pause squats, leg press, etc) and a few heavy sets of deads followed by deficits, stiff legs, rows, and chins. A lot more tame.

 

[maldorf]

Thats cool. I got it from a college strength coach that used to compete in powerlifting. I was fine with the light bench day but the building the volume with the heavy weight for 6x5 on squats and deads took a toll. I still remember doing 6x5 with 495 in the squat and 6x5 with 530 for the pulls. Those were two of the hardest workouts of my life. Definitely something I wouldn't want to keep repeating. The russian squat routine is very similar except it goes to 6x6 and slowly tapers the volume. My normal training was more similar to Coans. A few heavy sets on squat day followed by assistance (pause squats, leg press, etc) and a few heavy sets of deads followed by deficits, stiff legs, rows, and chins. A lot more tame.

I agree. I still remember doing the last week when you hit 5x5 or whatever it was. Just going in to the gym it felt like you were going to war! It is a great feeling.

Years later I trained legs for a bit with John Parillo and that was the most intense thing I have ever been through. I thought the Hatfield thing was tough, but I was wrong. I have never been that sore and worn out. I would do it around 8pm and not finish up until a bit after 10 pm. We kept up a good pace too, not resting much. The volume was much higher than I was used to. High volume and heavy. The belt squats were killer. The guy I worked out with had his dad make 200 lb plates so we could fit more weight on the chain. He worked up to 800 lbs on the belt squat and I did 600.

Every night after I got home I was so wide awake and full of what I guess was a mass of adrenaline and other hormones that I couldn't fall asleep. Lay in bed starting at the ceiling until 2 am. That was rough. My legs would just lie there and twitch.

 

[angus62]

Bringing back a lot of good memories. Thats awesome you got to train with him. I remember reading about his workouts in what I think was Musclemag and I used to have his training book. I also used to read his online magazine and ended up taking bunch of Captri which was his fat supplement. Its off the top of my head but didn't he push an enormous amount of clean calories and also encouraged the person do cardio year round? I also remember he had some type of stretching that would supposedly stretch the fascia. I saw a vid where he was stripping Franco Santoriello triceps with his knuckles and he looked like he was in agony. Did you have any experience with that?

 

[maldorf]

Bringing back a lot of good memories. Thats awesome you got to train with him. I remember reading about his workouts in what I think was Musclemag and I used to have his training book. I also used to read his online magazine and ended up taking bunch of Captri which was his fat supplement. Its off the top of my head but didn't he push an enormous amount of clean calories and also encouraged the person do cardio year round? I also remember he had some type of stretching that would supposedly stretch the fascia. I saw a vid where he was stripping Franco Santoriello triceps with his knuckles and he looked like he was in agony. Did you have any experience with that?

I don't recall any tips on cardio or diet because I wasn't lucky enough to be his main focus. His main focus was an employee of his named Steve that used to write for his newsletter and also competed in powerlifting. I was just a gym rat that was invited in to join with them. John was always really nice to me though and answered all of my questions. He is a SMART guy!

I do remember the fascial stretching but never experienced it. I just read about it like you. John was good friends with the gym owner of the gym where I lifted so he was there at least once a week. He liked to bring Steve to train legs there. That gym was awesome! Had a monolift later on, which was really cool. He also had a hydralic squat rack which was really nice to get the height perfect for you. You could have it loaded with 600 lbs or more and still raise and lower the height. It probably could have done over 1000 lbs.

 

[HONGOGRIMES]

I love u read us guys

 

[maldorf]

I love u read us guys

Let us know how the Fred Hatfield workout goes. If you feel like you are starting to overtrain then drop more of the accessory exercises and just concentrate on the big 3.

What I did for awhile was cycle between training the Hatfield thing and then back to a traditional bodybuilding routine. I found that I would gain a lot more strength this way. You pick up a lot of strength and then bring that to the bodybuilding routine and are able to move a lot more weight, even though it is higher rep training. It carries over. I don't remember loosing any strength at all doing the bodybuilding routine after Fred's. It was more or less maintain and solidify what you build up in Fred's powerlifting workouts. I would put on some strength but not nearly as much. After the powerlifting is done you will probably want to program in about 2 weeks of detraining. In the detraining youll be doing bodybuilding workouts but use fewer sets than you normally do, higher reps, and don't get too close to failure. Take it easy. I liked doing that rather than taking a whole week of no training at all. I think the muscles need the increased blood flow from the exercise and they actually heal up faster. If you don't detrain some then you might overtrain later. It is all by feel though. Maybe you wont need a detrain.

 

[HONGOGRIMES]

Let us know how the Fred Hatfield workout goes. If you feel like you are starting to overtrain then drop more of the accessory exercises and just concentrate on the big 3.

What I did for awhile was cycle between training the Hatfield thing and then back to a traditional bodybuilding routine. I found that I would gain a lot more strength this way. You pick up a lot of strength and then bring that to the bodybuilding routine and are able to move a lot more weight, even though it is higher rep training. It carries over. I don't remember loosing any strength at all doing the bodybuilding routine after Fred's. It was more or less maintain and solidify what you build up in Fred's powerlifting workouts. I would put on some strength but not nearly as much. After the powerlifting is done you will probably want to program in about 2 weeks of detraining. In the detraining youll be doing bodybuilding workouts but use fewer sets than you normally do, higher reps, and don't get too close to failure. Take it easy. I liked doing that rather than taking a whole week of no training at all. I think the muscles need the increased blood flow from the exercise and they actually heal up faster. If you don't detrain some then you might overtrain later. It is all by feel though. Maybe you wont need a detrain.

it goes very well, by focusing on the basics i trains more intense, shorter but heavier and I think I need to cut the volume a little, i came to do push pull legs twice a week (6 days) with 8 exercises per day, adding to that I am with less food makes it difficult to raise the weight.

 

[maldorf]

it goes very well, by focusing on the basics i trains more intense, shorter but heavier and I think I need to cut the volume a little, i came to do push pull legs twice a week (6 days) with 8 exercises per day, adding to that I am with less food makes it difficult to raise the weight.

Don't try to lose weight when you are doing a powerlifting routine like this, you may get hurt. I would eat as much as you feel like you need. Increase the calories gradually now is my recommendation. I think I saw you in another thread posting your diet and it looked to be rather low calorie. I would not worry about that now. Work on getting leaner when you do the bodybuilding routine after you finish this.