TeknoViking FUE Thread (1951 Grafts)

[Deleted member 106824]

Stallone no question has had work done and multiple times, his loss wasn't bad enough for him to bother with a system, he looked to be a nw 3-3.5 at his worst and is or was likely on meds, his worst case progression was unlikely to be past a 4 so he had the donors to cover his worst case scenario enough that it would never look like he was losing his hair badly and he clearly invested in that hairline a few times. Couple that with some obvious brow lift work it makes the hairline appear much more juvenile than the doc would've gone for but it's still some pretty aggressive work. You can see when his hair isn't perfectly coiffed that there is still some weakness behind his hairline and that is where the donor limitations come into play, he's got some age related diffusion happening and you can't keep it all perfect forever.

OK so if money isn't an issue, it's reasonable to think that unless you are severely balding that transplants alone could do the trick? I mean I don't want to say money isn't an issue at all but I am in a position where $10k every 10-15 years wouldn't be unreasonable for me to throw towards that if I could have my hair looking as good as his by the time I'm 70. (Though I'll probably not care as much at 50+).

I was mostly concerned that I would just completely run out of viable donor sites and just have no options unless I reluctantly went on Finasteride soon.

 

[G.I.Bro]

OK so if money isn't an issue, it's reasonable to think that unless you are severely balding that transplants alone could do the trick? I mean I don't want to say money isn't an issue at all but I am in a position where $10k every 10-15 years wouldn't be unreasonable for me to throw towards that if I could have my hair looking as good as his by the time I'm 70. (Though I'll probably not care as much at 50+).

I was mostly concerned that I would just completely run out of viable donor sites and just have no options unless I reluctantly went on Finasteride soon.

After about 2 donor yields of 2k+ FUE, most dudes are done. After that you can run into over harvesting issue. I know Anibus knows well what I'm talking about. Only so much donor available.

 

[Anubis]

OK so if money isn't an issue, it's reasonable to think that unless you are severely balding that transplants alone could do the trick? I mean I don't want to say money isn't an issue at all but I am in a position where $10k every 10-15 years wouldn't be unreasonable for me to throw towards that if I could have my hair looking as good as his by the time I'm 70. (Though I'll probably not care as much at 50+).

I was mostly concerned that I would just completely run out of viable donor sites and just have no options unless I reluctantly went on Finasteride soon.

That's hard to say yes or no to definitively as it varies individual to individual. Your hair characteristics are a factor, how viable your donor is is a factor, what level of progression your headed toward and of course your expectations. I've found in general that guys with extreme loss are the easiest patients because they are happy with virtually any improvement that makes them not totally bald even if it's not dense or perfect but a guy with some minor temple recession who is a nw 3, he may put as many grafts into his hairline alone as that nw 6 guy did on his entire scalp chasing natural density and go thru multiple ops chasing that. If you're a nw 4 and under where the crown loss isn't severe and you're realistic you should probably get thru your life on transplants alone even without meds, more likely if you have good hair characteristics or a strong donor ...if you're a nw 5 or have thinner hair or just an average donor you may have to compromise on getting ideal density everywhere, most likely live with just coverage on the crown... maybe not getting the density you have up front but you could get thru, this is the range it gets dicey unless your donors working for you. Nw 6 unlikely you should be looking at fut. Nw 5 may even be better off looking at fut unless your donor is strong and the hair characteristics are working in your favor.

After about 2 donor yields of 2k+ FUE, most dudes are done. After that you can run into over harvesting issue. I know Anibus knows well what I'm talking about. Only so much donor available.

Overharvesting and noticeable extraction patterns are concerns with fue but in the hands of top docs the numbers retrievable has gone up significantly. The procedure has evolved and the tools used improved to the point that transection rates are close to fut transection rates, the punches used minimize scarring and the emphasis on donor mapping to make sure noticeable extraction patterns don't emerge has really pushed the procedure forward and what was thought to be the upper level of available grafts in the past is now considered below average. The euros really took the lead on fue and the numbers they're able to extract are incredible. I've seen a few cases of 10k + extractions where the donors still look immaculate and untouched. Even as short as 5 years ago, getting 6k was considered amazing, now it's routine. 2 of the leaders in fue in Europe are my own doc Lorenzo and Dr Erdogan from Turkey and they came up with the coverage value system where they effectively map the donor and have come up with a formula using your hair characteristics to determine how many grafts can be taken before the loss is visible to the human eye. I've had my own scalp measured and my available donors is near 12k left and I've had 4k taken already. My donor is way above average strong, the top American docs had me pegged for 10k available fue grafts they just couldn't pin down how much over that they could go, they eyeball it where the cv system was supposed to take the guess work out of it. Few people have pushed the limits of what the coverage value system says can be taken but I've seen lots of cases where they will dip into 75% of that limit successfully but few people need to dig past that amount. How many a doc can get will vary given your donor and your hair characteristics but if you're starting to get peak thru in the donor after 4k the doctor wasn't very good or your donor wasn't...an average donor these days should yield you comfortably 6k...a solid donor 8k+...and a good donor 10k+ and these are fue numbers.

For example here's a dr Lorenzo patient, they have his coverage value info up at 44 seconds but it's a little tough to read but they mention his stats under the video...and the patient pre the first op, it was a 2 stage op, had nearly 13k grafts available, after 2 ops and 5100 grafts taken you can't see any noticeable harvesting issues

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT76HJ8mkt0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT76HJ8mkt0[/ame]

then this vid, this patients nearly 9k grafts in over 4 procedures and he's young still just 37, virtually all his hair is transplanted hair at this stage so he doesn't have the fear of going thru further major loss, he was lucky to have a strong donor but you can see 9k grafts in the donor looks pristine.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdEMMSdmlQg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdEMMSdmlQg[/ame]


So there is no set number on how many grafts or how many procedures in before the donor will look weak it depends on your personal factors and the greats will take those into account and plan accordingly.

 

[G.I.Bro]

That's hard to say yes or no to definitively as it varies individual to individual. Your hair characteristics are a factor, how viable your donor is is a factor, what level of progression your headed toward and of course your expectations. I've found in general that guys with extreme loss are the easiest patients because they are happy with virtually any improvement that makes them not totally bald even if it's not dense or perfect but a guy with some minor temple recession who is a nw 3, he may put as many grafts into his hairline alone as that nw 6 guy did on his entire scalp chasing natural density and go thru multiple ops chasing that. If you're a nw 4 and under where the crown loss isn't severe and you're realistic you should probably get thru your life on transplants alone even without meds, more likely if you have good hair characteristics or a strong donor ...if you're a nw 5 or have thinner hair or just an average donor you may have to compromise on getting ideal density everywhere, most likely live with just coverage on the crown... maybe not getting the density you have up front but you could get thru, this is the range it gets dicey unless your donors working for you. Nw 6 unlikely you should be looking at fut. Nw 5 may even be better off looking at fut unless your donor is strong and the hair characteristics are working in your favor.




Overharvesting and noticeable extraction patterns are concerns with fue but in the hands of top docs the numbers retrievable has gone up significantly. The procedure has evolved and the tools used improved to the point that transection rates are close to fut transection rates, the punches used minimize scarring and the emphasis on donor mapping to make sure noticeable extraction patterns don't emerge has really pushed the procedure forward and what was thought to be the upper level of available grafts in the past is now considered below average. The euros really took the lead on fue and the numbers they're able to extract are incredible. I've seen a few cases of 10k + extractions where the donors still look immaculate and untouched. Even as short as 5 years ago, getting 6k was considered amazing, now it's routine. 2 of the leaders in fue in Europe are my own doc Lorenzo and Dr Erdogan from Turkey and they came up with the coverage value system where they effectively map the donor and have come up with a formula using your hair characteristics to determine how many grafts can be taken before the loss is visible to the human eye. I've had my own scalp measured and my available donors is near 12k left and I've had 4k taken already. My donor is way above average strong, the top American docs had me pegged for 10k available fue grafts they just couldn't pin down how much over that they could go, they eyeball it where the cv system was supposed to take the guess work out of it. Few people have pushed the limits of what the coverage value system says can be taken but I've seen lots of cases where they will dip into 75% of that limit successfully but few people need to dig past that amount. How many a doc can get will vary given your donor and your hair characteristics but if you're starting to get peak thru in the donor after 4k the doctor wasn't very good or your donor wasn't...an average donor these days should yield you comfortably 6k...a solid donor 8k+...and a good donor 10k+ and these are fue numbers.

For example here's a dr Lorenzo patient, they have his coverage value info up at 44 seconds but it's a little tough to read but they mention his stats under the video...and the patient pre the first op, it was a 2 stage op, had nearly 13k grafts available, after 2 ops and 5100 grafts taken you can't see any noticeable harvesting issues

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT76HJ8mkt0

then this vid, this patients nearly 9k grafts in over 4 procedures and he's young still just 37, virtually all his hair is transplanted hair at this stage so he doesn't have the fear of going thru further major loss, he was lucky to have a strong donor but you can see 9k grafts in the donor looks pristine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdEMMSdmlQg


So there is no set number on how many grafts or how many procedures in before the donor will look weak it depends on your personal factors and the greats will take those into account and plan accordingly.

Definitely educated me on where current yield numbers are. I've been told average donor yield is usually around 4-5.5k over 2 procedures (usually). But it's clear they're pushing that these days.

What are your thoughts on Dr. Paul Shapiro and the Shapiro group? His older brother who founded it doesn't do as much work these days.

What do you think about giving the illusion of added visual density in between existing grafts with SMP where donor is maxed or you want to avoid another procedure? That has become more popular too it seems. I saw an older guy I know get some SMP among his transplant hairs and his density and coverage did look better.

 

[Anubis]

Definitely educated me on where current yield numbers are. I've been told average donor yield is usually around 4-5.5k over 2 procedures (usually). But it's clear they're pushing that these days.

What are your thoughts on Dr. Paul Shapiro and the Shapiro group? His older brother who founded it doesn't do as much work these days.

What do you think about giving the illusion of added visual density in between existing grafts with SMP where donor is maxed or you want to avoid another procedure? That has become more popular too it seems. I saw an older guy I know get some SMP among his transplant hairs and his density and coverage did look better.

I really like Dr Ron Shapiro, awesome guy and great doc, one of the best American docs but he's gone thru a hell of a lot in the last couple years, tough separation, his wife took his kid and left the country so he's between Poland and Minny constantly it's burnt him out and burnt out the passion he had, he's winding it down and Pauls taken over the workload, and it's a shame on a personal and professional level. Paul was never the talent Ron was, they are living off Rons reputation and I wouldn't put my money down to get work done by Paul. There are better options for the price in the us at either surgery. Dr Josephitis the 3rd surgeon on staff is a good guy, and coming into his own but he's still not in the elite doctor tier that Ron was, but a better doc than Paul.

I'm rather torn on smp for density. I think in certain conditions it is a viable option...if somebody is tapped out and they have no other avenue for density then it is the lowest maintenance way of making an improvement. Does it look more full than using dermatch or fibers, no but then you don't have to apply it everyday or have to worry about it coming off either. If somebody has a choice when they're planning between doing lower density for coverage thru out and then adding in smp for the density boost or invest heavily in the frontal third and having a system for the back end, I've seen both routes and the hybrid transplant system route is visually more impressive. So if you are just tapped then I like it as the best of limited solutions but if you got options I wouldn't plan with having smp in mind....I do like it more as a stop gap between procedures, if you're not quite ready for another op but the scalp is peaking thru, to buy you a couple years before you're ready to undergo an op. I've just seen a bunch of smp and hand picked examples from the clinics so the best of their best and from a distance it looks good, and under harsh light it reduces the contrast of the scalp vs the hair which helps it look a little more full but up close if the hair is lacking density it will still look like it's lacking density.

 

[G.I.Bro]

I really like Dr Ron Shapiro, awesome guy and great doc, one of the best American docs but he's gone thru a hell of a lot in the last couple years, tough separation, his wife took his kid and left the country so he's between Poland and Minny constantly it's burnt him out and burnt out the passion he had, he's winding it down and Pauls taken over the workload, and it's a shame on a personal and professional level. Paul was never the talent Ron was, they are living off Rons reputation and I wouldn't put my money down to get work done by Paul. There are better options for the price in the us at either surgery. Dr Josephitis the 3rd surgeon on staff is a good guy, and coming into his own but he's still not in the elite doctor tier that Ron was, but a better doc than Paul.

I'm rather torn on smp for density. I think in certain conditions it is a viable option...if somebody is tapped out and they have no other avenue for density then it is the lowest maintenance way of making an improvement. Does it look more full than using dermatch or fibers, no but then you don't have to apply it everyday or have to worry about it coming off either. If somebody has a choice when they're planning between doing lower density for coverage thru out and then adding in smp for the density boost or invest heavily in the frontal third and having a system for the back end, I've seen both routes and the hybrid transplant system route is visually more impressive. So if you are just tapped then I like it as the best of limited solutions but if you got options I wouldn't plan with having smp in mind....I do like it more as a stop gap between procedures, if you're not quite ready for another op but the scalp is peaking thru, to buy you a couple years before you're ready to undergo an op. I've just seen a bunch of smp and hand picked examples from the clinics so the best of their best and from a distance it looks good, and under harsh light it reduces the contrast of the scalp vs the hair which helps it look a little more full but up close if the hair is lacking density it will still look like it's lacking density.

You know their office well because I have inside info there and that's all dead on. How do you know so much about their office? I think you're right about "Dr Joe." Do you know Matt Zupan there? Feel free to take it to PM if you don't want to speak publicly.

Are you working in this industry or what? You know a ton.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Great info Anubis

It's hard to know where I really stand. I feel like maybe I would have good donor sites as I had often used to be told I had thick hair. I'm attaching a pic of my dad in his 30s....as you can see even with his balding he still has that thick dark Italian hair elsewhere. I'm not really sure where I stand on the norwood scale. If I use this scale https://www.theradome.com/web/image/200351 I guess I'm like a 3A or 3V but the difference is I'm noticeably thinner on top. The amount of actual recession I have hasn't changed too much since I was 20 but the thinning is significantly increased now.

Those videos are impressive. Personally I have used the hair fibers the last 2 years or so and they're very helpful. I bought them just to try it out but now I'd feel uncomfortable without them. I only recently heard about SMP and I like the idea but wonder how it would look if someone begins graying and now they have this dark SMP underneath. I also don't really mind putting the fibers in as it only takes a few seconds and it's cheap.

Lastly, you said "If somebody has a choice when they're planning between doing lower density for coverage thru out and then adding in smp for the density boost or invest heavily in the frontal third and having a system for the back end, I've seen both routes and the hybrid transplant system route is visually more impressive." That's the second time I've seen reference to having the front transplanted and then getting a hair system. Why would you need to invest in a hair transplant if you're getting a hair system anyway...so that the front blends in better?

 

[Deleted member 106824]

For further reference here's my dad now in his late 50s....mostly bald on top but still relatively thick on the sides

 

[Anubis]

You know their office well because I have inside info there and that's all dead on. How do you know so much about their office? I think you're right about "Dr Joe." Do you know Matt Zupan there? Feel free to take it to PM if you don't want to speak publicly.

Are you working in this industry or what? You know a ton.

No, I don't work in the industry, was just a regular guy needing a transplant and became a little too obsessed lol. I own a business within the film industry and know some influential people and as fascinated as I was about this hair shit, was nothing compared to how fascinated many of the docs were to know about my life and wanting to get some introductions. Started off as mutually beneficial, they got me in the loop and I helped them network and then I just slowly became friends with a good number of docs, now I get invites to the conferences and we're just buddies, I got a bunch on what's app and we'll just call and shoot the shit here and there. I was down in Mexico over new years with a couple docs and some other buddies, it's just life now lol. Like all industries the gossip gets spread around and I heard about Dr Rons issues from one of the docs I know. It's a totally different perspective hearing from the docs themselves cause you get to hear what other pros are thinking about who is the real deal and you get to hear the dirt like this Dr Ron news.

I don't know Matt Zupan on a personal level, I know of him and know the name but I tend to know more just the doctors and less the staff. I know the office girls in a few clinics but that's as far as I go lol

 

[Anubis]

Great info Anubis

It's hard to know where I really stand. I feel like maybe I would have good donor sites as I had often used to be told I had thick hair. I'm attaching a pic of my dad in his 30s....as you can see even with his balding he still has that thick dark Italian hair elsewhere. I'm not really sure where I stand on the norwood scale. If I use this scale https://www.theradome.com/web/image/200351 I guess I'm like a 3A or 3V but the difference is I'm noticeably thinner on top. The amount of actual recession I have hasn't changed too much since I was 20 but the thinning is significantly increased now.

Those videos are impressive. Personally I have used the hair fibers the last 2 years or so and they're very helpful. I bought them just to try it out but now I'd feel uncomfortable without them. I only recently heard about SMP and I like the idea but wonder how it would look if someone begins graying and now they have this dark SMP underneath. I also don't really mind putting the fibers in as it only takes a few seconds and it's cheap.

Lastly, you said "If somebody has a choice when they're planning between doing lower density for coverage thru out and then adding in smp for the density boost or invest heavily in the frontal third and having a system for the back end, I've seen both routes and the hybrid transplant system route is visually more impressive." That's the second time I've seen reference to having the front transplanted and then getting a hair system. Why would you need to invest in a hair transplant if you're getting a hair system anyway...so that the front blends in better?

I think I remember seeing your pics prior and you definitely had a nw4 pattern emerging, your recession wasn't bad as you noted but it was the thinning thru the mid scalp back that was going to be the primary issue going forward. If that continues you could go to a nw5... I'd have to see more recent pics to see where it's at now but ultimately it would be best to get in front of a doc so he can see what level of minaturization is occuring. Most guys who show a 4 pattern young trend towards a 5 unfortunately but your dads hair looks to be holding on so maybe 4 is your upward limit, but further pics and optimally an in person exam of your hair with a doc would best tell. Your dads donor area looks strong on the sides but without seeing the back and the density there it's again hard to confirm how strong but it doesn't look weak at all, so if you're like him that bodes well... if you're told your hair is thick, your characteristics are working for you which means you can get more coverage with less hair than somebody with finer hair, so that is working in your favor as well.

For some people the fibers work very well and if they're working for you, go with it, they're cheap and effective. It boils down to somebodies comfort level, I felt out of place with them on I never got comfortable with them but I know a lot of guys who love them and they look natural. My hair is also shiny and fibers tend to be better with dry matte hair, my hair runs oily so that didn't help my confidence level with them as it looked shiny while the fibers were matte.

With Smp, you should be opting for temporary as the ink fades in a permanent and the color goes off, it should always be temporary. It's a touch inconvenient, having to redo it every 2 years and at a couple k per time it's the equivalent of a transplant once every 10 years over the same time span so it's not cheap but if you're redoing it every couple years you can adjust to your hair color changes, if your hair changes dramatically over a 2 yr span just dye it until the next round of smp.

Regarding the partial hair system vs the full. Hair systems for as good as they have become have an unnaturalness to them in the hairline, they are just too thick and abrupt for somebody who has probably gone thru significant loss (or why get one) and has the temple recession that goes with it. It doesn't blend right when it's a nw 1 hairline and the temple recession is way back lol The hairline is the part of the hair that draws the most eyes and if something looks off, it's obvious, how many times have you seen somebody and thought, bad rug. Imagine putting a prebuilt home on uneven ground, it's not going to sit right, and that's system up front it won't sit right in a way that looks natural to the eye. You end up having to style in a way to compensate which ends up looking strange again. The best approach is the hybrid approach for advanced norwoods, build back your recession and hairline, make the part that draws the eyes as natural as possible and then the part that gets less scrutiny gets the denser hair treatment. You essentially cover up for the weakness of both strategies. A transplant on an advanced nw6 will never get a full perfectly dense head of hair, while a full cap on a nw6 will look off as well so you get the transplant up front for the natural front line and then get coverage.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I can honestly say I've never looked at a man and thought "bad rug" or even that they were wearing a hair piece at all, but that's probably because it's just not something I've ever looked out for. I imagine most of the time it goes unnoticed as people probably aren't as concerned with others' hair as much as they are...or as much as anyone in this thread is lol. But I see what you're saying regarding blending in.

I cut my hair recently and was definitely not happy with what I saw. It's the shortest it's been in a while. I'm attaching a pic of it dry and brushed up/back and then wet and brushed up/back. As you can see it's noticeable to a degree when dry but very noticeable when wet. Thankfully I'm tall so very few people see the top of my head regularly, and with the hair fibers it's not noticeable, but obviously the trend is not good and I imagine the fibers alone will only be enough for a couple more years.

My dad has seemed stable for a while now. He did take dutasteride for prostate issues a few years ago which made his hair thicker (surprising to me that it could have made it thicker after having lost it so long ago) but he's been off that now for a while if I recall. Though he certainly never used anabolics like I have. I've only been on 80mg TRT for several years now, DHT is upper normal levels, but still obviously higher than if I wasn't on the TRT at all.

Didn't realize the SMP could be temporary. In that case it does seem more reasonable....but still pricey.

 

[Anubis]

I can honestly say I've never looked at a man and thought "bad rug" or even that they were wearing a hair piece at all, but that's probably because it's just not something I've ever looked out for. I imagine most of the time it goes unnoticed as people probably aren't as concerned with others' hair as much as they are...or as much as anyone in this thread is lol. But I see what you're saying regarding blending in.

I cut my hair recently and was definitely not happy with what I saw. It's the shortest it's been in a while. I'm attaching a pic of it dry and brushed up/back and then wet and brushed up/back. As you can see it's noticeable to a degree when dry but very noticeable when wet. Thankfully I'm tall so very few people see the top of my head regularly, and with the hair fibers it's not noticeable, but obviously the trend is not good and I imagine the fibers alone will only be enough for a couple more years.

My dad has seemed stable for a while now. He did take dutasteride for prostate issues a few years ago which made his hair thicker (surprising to me that it could have made it thicker after having lost it so long ago) but he's been off that now for a while if I recall. Though he certainly never used anabolics like I have. I've only been on 80mg TRT for several years now, DHT is upper normal levels, but still obviously higher than if I wasn't on the TRT at all.

Didn't realize the SMP could be temporary. In that case it does seem more reasonable....but still pricey.

Well of that you're right nobody obsesses about everyone elses hair as much as a guy losing his own, we just obsess about hair period. We are far more critical than the average person but I have heard a lot of comments about bad hair pieces, maybe again because I'm listening for it more than most would be but I spot obvious systems so if I spot them I'm just dialed in to hear if others see it too and most times they are. They'll call it out or they'll just say something is off not putting their finger on what they're seeing that's off.

Dut made a profound difference in my hair thickness as well, I was on fin and didn't notice it to the same degree, there was a positive effect just not as dramatic. That was likely because of also being on trt and having higher dht levels. If somebody is on trt and has handled fin sides dut is the better option. I haven't come across anybody that was side free on fin that suddenly developed sides on dut, and the docs have found the same but theoretically since you're inhibiting dht at a greater level that should be possible, we're just not seeing it. That your dad has been stable a while likely means he's hit where he's meant to, it never completely stops but he's very unlikely to go thru any massive sheds and hit the next level of nw either. Aas isn't going to take loss to a level it wasn't meant to go but it does speed up the timeline in which it hits the end point, and the higher your use the quicker the end point comes.

Now to your hair. Your hairline still does look largely intact which makes me believe you're not going to see harsh progression in recession you seem to have the same issue I did which is diffuse hair loss, given what I see here. What that means is your hair isn't going to completely go in any section but it is going to keep on thinning in a certain pattern, for you it looks to be a nw4 right now. Diffusion in early stages does well with fibers as hairs usually do stick around, we don't go slick bald in any specific area, we just lose density. There is 2 types of diffuse hair loss, patterned and unpatterned, unpatterned means you have thinning all over your head, sides, back of the head etc and that patient is not viable for transplants as no hair is safe from minaturization. The patterned patient is a candidate as the donor and sides usually are immune to minaturization... I'd need to see your donor area to be sure but it doesn't sound like that is thinning so you'd likely be a candidate. There are good and bad in being a diffuse patient, the bad for you as I know you don't want to take meds, meds are a huge huge plus in our cases. Diffuse patients respond much better than average to fin/dut. Diffuse patients also tend to have more shock loss than the average patient during a transplant. Meds will strengthen those and make it more likely that they return post op. Without meds, hair shocked out during a transplant can become casualties of that transplant, and last thing you want is to lose as many or more than you put in and end up a net 0 to net negative. The upside is because we're not truely bald in any specific area, we can create a visual impact with less grafts, boosting density can be done very economically compared to somebody who has lost it all thru the same area so your grafts should go further than traditional patients.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Now to your hair. Your hairline still does look largely intact which makes me believe you're not going to see harsh progression in recession you seem to have the same issue I did which is diffuse hair loss, given what I see here. What that means is your hair isn't going to completely go in any section but it is going to keep on thinning in a certain pattern, for you it looks to be a nw4 right now. Diffusion in early stages does well with fibers as hairs usually do stick around, we don't go slick bald in any specific area, we just lose density. There is 2 types of diffuse hair loss, patterned and unpatterned, unpatterned means you have thinning all over your head, sides, back of the head etc and that patient is not viable for transplants as no hair is safe from minaturization. The patterned patient is a candidate as the donor and sides usually are immune to minaturization... I'd need to see your donor area to be sure but it doesn't sound like that is thinning so you'd likely be a candidate. There are good and bad in being a diffuse patient, the bad for you as I know you don't want to take meds, meds are a huge huge plus in our cases. Diffuse patients respond much better than average to fin/dut. Diffuse patients also tend to have more shock loss than the average patient during a transplant. Meds will strengthen those and make it more likely that they return post op. Without meds, hair shocked out during a transplant can become casualties of that transplant, and last thing you want is to lose as many or more than you put in and end up a net 0 to net negative. The upside is because we're not truely bald in any specific area, we can create a visual impact with less grafts, boosting density can be done very economically compared to somebody who has lost it all thru the same area so your grafts should go further than traditional patients.

Man not good for those that have unpatterned diffusion. From what I can see, and from looking at my dad if that's an indication, it seems mine is patterned. Hopefully that's the case.

Regarding the shock loss being more prevalent in those with diffuse hairloss, would it make sense for someone to take dut/fin for just a few weeks before the transplant and then a few months afterwards? I know normally they're suggested as lifelong treatments otherwise you apparently lose whatever you saved when you come off, but in this case it would be specifically just to get over the hump of that potential shock loss phase.

 

[Big A]

I can honestly say I've never looked at a man and thought "bad rug" or even that they were wearing a hair piece at all, but that's probably because it's just not something I've ever looked out for. I imagine most of the time it goes unnoticed as people probably aren't as concerned with others' hair as much as they are...or as much as anyone in this thread is lol. But I see what you're saying regarding blending in.

I cut my hair recently and was definitely not happy with what I saw. It's the shortest it's been in a while. I'm attaching a pic of it dry and brushed up/back and then wet and brushed up/back. As you can see it's noticeable to a degree when dry but very noticeable when wet. Thankfully I'm tall so very few people see the top of my head regularly, and with the hair fibers it's not noticeable, but obviously the trend is not good and I imagine the fibers alone will only be enough for a couple more years.

My dad has seemed stable for a while now. He did take dutasteride for prostate issues a few years ago which made his hair thicker (surprising to me that it could have made it thicker after having lost it so long ago) but he's been off that now for a while if I recall. Though he certainly never used anabolics like I have. I've only been on 80mg TRT for several years now, DHT is upper normal levels, but still obviously higher than if I wasn't on the TRT at all.

Didn't realize the SMP could be temporary. In that case it does seem more reasonable....but still pricey.

My hair is identical to yours! Thank god for fibers!

 

[Anubis]

Man not good for those that have unpatterned diffusion. From what I can see, and from looking at my dad if that's an indication, it seems mine is patterned. Hopefully that's the case.

Regarding the shock loss being more prevalent in those with diffuse hairloss, would it make sense for someone to take dut/fin for just a few weeks before the transplant and then a few months afterwards? I know normally they're suggested as lifelong treatments otherwise you apparently lose whatever you saved when you come off, but in this case it would be specifically just to get over the hump of that potential shock loss phase.

Yeah dupa (diffuse unpatterned alopecia) is brutal, there is little hope for those guys but to shave it off and live with that, hope meds slow it down.

What you're saying would kind of work but not a few weeks, to really strengthen the hair enough you'd have to go thru a few hair cycles so it could shed the weak hairs and regrow them back stronger, it's suggested at least 8 months to a year to get your hair strengthened enough to undergo the trauma of a transplant...then if you wanted to stop it post op once they survived you could choose to do that but they will eventually weaken again.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

My hair is identical to yours! Thank god for fibers!

The fibers are definitely good, glad I stumbled upon them. I'm guessing you're significantly older than I am (I'm 26) so if your hair is identical to mine currently you're probably not destined to lose as much as I would be.

Yeah dupa (diffuse unpatterned alopecia) is brutal, there is little hope for those guys but to shave it off and live with that, hope meds slow it down.

What you're saying would kind of work but not a few weeks, to really strengthen the hair enough you'd have to go thru a few hair cycles so it could shed the weak hairs and regrow them back stronger, it's suggested at least 8 months to a year to get your hair strengthened enough to undergo the trauma of a transplant...then if you wanted to stop it post op once they survived you could choose to do that but they will eventually weaken again.

Oh gotcha so you're saying it would be more important to be on longer before the transplant...I assumed it would be more important to stay on longer after the transplant to avoid losing the transplanted hair.

 

[crams60]

update

hows it coming Techno any progress?

 

[TeknoViking]

hows it coming Techno any progress?

I will post pics later today. I am not one to brag but I have been getting so much more female attention. No one can tell I had surgery no one.

 

[crams60]

I will post pics later today. I am not one to brag but I have been getting so much more female attention. No one can tell I had surgery no one.

I have my FUE set with Dr Konior for September you have no idea how happy that comment just made me!!!!!

 

[epoxy]

I will post pics later today. I am not one to brag but I have been getting so much more female attention. No one can tell I had surgery no one.

The only person who's ever said something about mine is the girl who cuts my hair, as it was obvious after taking a 4-5 month hiatus from getting haircuts that I all of a sudden had a good bit more to work with

Female attention - definitely, who doesn't like a good head of hair. And dont get me wrong, some guys can pull off the bald look and girls like it, but NO one can pull of the BALD-ING look.