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Testosterone and reduced collagen synthesis

dros

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Until we learned that AAS (basically all of them) actually damage the tendons and hinder tendon recovery. Even the ones that supposedly "increase" collagen synthesis damage the tendons as reduce healing times. We've known this about Winstrol for a long time...and studies continue to reveal the damaging effects if AAS on tendons. There was a recent study on nandrolone showing that, despite its ability to increase collagen synthesis, it actually reduced tendon recovery times. Then, of course, we have all the steroids that severely reduce collagen synthesis. Regardless, I have yet to find a single study that has proven AAS (any of them) actually strengthen the tendons or promote tendon recovery.

So, my question is. What are you guys taking for to help this?

I assume HGH is the best thing along with perhaps MK677?

Please share your knowledge and tips if you feel like something has really helped.
 

dros

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You are correct. I am referring to bodybuilding doses at 300mg+
I believe most of us on this forum use AAS.
Studies have never shown these AAS to be helpful for the tendons, yet studies have shown them to be detrimental. Just look at the recent nandrolone study from a few years ago. It significantly reduced tendon healing times, despite its ability to increase collagen syntheis.

Most bodybuilders mistakenly assume that just because some AAS increase collagen synthesis, that this means they must strengthen the tendons/promote healing. Unfortunately, that is not true. Just because a drug may increase collage synthesis, it does not mean it improves tendon strength/recovery.

At this point I am not aware of a single AAS that has been shown to actually strengthen tendons/improve recovery times, but there is plenty of evidence to show the opposite. Which is why I think it's extremely important to have a good discussion on this on whats the best thing to do for our tendons.
 

Dog-Slime

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Test and AAS for muscles, TB500 for tendons...
 

LK3

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I am assuming this is only for supra-physiological doses? I would imagine 100-200mg/week of enanthate or cyp wouldn't change much?

from most info out there even trt probably retards collagen syth quite a bit...

there is no real good solution.

many aas do increase synthesis but there is a good bit of info to suggest that the the new tissue is brittle and not really strengthening the tendons it may actually weaken them...
 

Fa Seeshus

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Maybe I am reading your post wrong, but isn't "significantly decreased tendon healing time" a good thing? It would be bad if it increased tendon healing time.
 

dros

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Maybe I am reading your post wrong, but isn't "significantly decreased tendon healing time" a good thing? It would be bad if it increased tendon healing time.

Correct, increased.
 

IronLion2

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from most info out there even trt probably retards collagen syth quite a bit...

there is no real good solution.

many aas do increase synthesis but there is a good bit of info to suggest that the the new tissue is brittle and not really strengthening the tendons it may actually weaken them...

x2, i've done some decent reading about collagen supplementation (mainly skin) and not many supps do anyting to increase skin elasticity, collagen production, or tendon recovery.
 

dros

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I'm baffled theres not alot more talk about this on all AAS forums. This should be the most important thing. Whats the point of building a good physique if all your tendons are brittle and You're a walking injury waiting to happen.
 

liv2pb

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This is a subject that has been bugging me for awhile now. My hypothesis is gh to increase type 1 collegen faster then eq or deca to increase type three. Without gh the eq/deca might make the tendons weaker.

Maybe this can be a topic on the next podcast homonuculus haha
 
Last edited:

Fa Seeshus

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Overuse of aromatase inhibitors can also reduce collagen synthesis and make joints and tendons feel like ass. The only one that has some benefit to joints is raloxifene. When I used to mess with Winstrol I would take raloxifene at the same time and it would prevent the brittle joint feeling.
 

DamageInc

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Interesting topic and one that deserves more attention seeing as I have suffered two ruptured tendons all in the course of one year. This after 20 or so years of lifting.

Orthopedic surgeon said my tendon looked like string beans. Four month recovery for the distal tendon in the elbow and now six months for the patellar.

I am in this for the long term so preventive measures are now my only focus. GH, Bpc 157 and TB-500 are no longer optional. Would love to hear more input on this part of this sport which is often times over looked.
 

upeccmi

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Doing this a long time, HGH was too expensive when I competed so once I hit 40 I started tearing everything, after I tore my tricep tendon, I started taking 2-3 iu HGH/day and all the tightness and tearing when away.
 

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x2, i've done some decent reading about collagen supplementation (mainly skin) and not many supps do anyting to increase skin elasticity, collagen production, or tendon recovery.

im surprised we dont have more interest in this as i feel it is a big issue. i feel it is major side effect of trt and aas the more i go. i certainly have had a lot of connective tissue problems and pain and it seems to get worse as i go.

i think the best we can do is try to take sups that "could" help... type2 collagen has some good info... gh and or peptides at times.

i have been playing with the aas options over the last few years. nnp fore sure can help with some pain but i think it more masks things.

curcumin helps with pain. i cant say it fixes anything more.

as more of us are on and doing this longer i think it will be something we hear more about.
 

Kaladryn

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This topic is rarely discussed because it is somewhat counter-intuitive to understand. Increased collagen synthesis is actually what makes tendons more "brittle" and prone to things like tendinitis.
 

suppdude

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This topic is rarely discussed because it is somewhat counter-intuitive to understand. Increased collagen synthesis is actually what makes tendons more "brittle" and prone to things like tendinitis.

Interesting. Shot you a PM.
 

Thaistick

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This topic is rarely discussed because it is somewhat counter-intuitive to understand. Increased collagen synthesis is actually what makes tendons more "brittle" and prone to things like tendinitis.

This is correct and why I quit arguing with people years ago about tendons and AAS. It's not light reading.
 

dros

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It seems gh, tb500 and bpc157 peptides will help alot from researching. Adding mk2866 might also help. Is there anything else I have looked over?

Are collagen supplements neccesary if gh is there?

Thoughs and inputs?
 

pickapeck

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Until we learned that AAS (basically all of them) actually damage the tendons and hinder tendon recovery. Even the ones that supposedly "increase" collagen synthesis damage the tendons as reduce healing times. We've known this about Winstrol for a long time...and studies continue to reveal the damaging effects if AAS on tendons. There was a recent study on nandrolone showing that, despite its ability to increase collagen synthesis, it actually reduced tendon recovery times. Then, of course, we have all the steroids that severely reduce collagen synthesis. Regardless, I have yet to find a single study that has proven AAS (any of them) actually strengthen the tendons or promote tendon recovery.

So, my question is. What are you guys taking for to help this?

I assume HGH is the best thing along with perhaps MK677?

Please share your knowledge and tips if you feel like something has really helped.
You take time off AAS until the joints feel better and then stay off them for another couple of months. Also works if you are TRT and in m case works if I keep my level in the 600 - 800 ng/dL. I'm currently off cycle and on 100 mg/w TC for 5 weeks and my joints feel better already. Sometimes the fix is more simple than we think.
 

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