The Elusive Injectible Winny

xcelbeyond · Dec 15, 2002

Well, I've gotten winny powder from two different sources. I haven't had any luck getting it suspended in any solution - always crystalizes. Now I've wasted 15g of what I know was good winny on failed conversions.

I got one of Kaotik Chemistry's Easy Kits and it went into solution like clockwork! A nice light golden finished product! I definately recommend using his kits for those tricky powders

And I didn't feel a thing when I injected it.

xcel

bloded · Dec 15, 2002

xcel what strength did you make the winny ?

Mr_Magoo · Dec 15, 2002

which kit did u use

stackdizzy · Dec 15, 2002

I would like to know this also xcel you just changed my mind and saved my some $$ too. Dude can I suck yo cock?? lol j/k

xcelbeyond · Dec 15, 2002

I used a 5g Easy Kit, the one with PEG. I only had <4g left (must have gotten shorted on last purchase

) and I didn't add all the PEG. I figured it's about 75mg/ml. With all the experience I've had with winny experiments, I can tell that 5g will dissolve very easily.

I actually warmed up vial #2 (PEG) before adding to vial #1. I "had to" do this with other kits to get the magic solution to blend with oil (in fact I had to reheat it and swirl it with "other" kit to get to mix in). You could see the PEG mix into the Magic Solution almost immediately. I also like to warm the final product as it makes it MUCH easier to sterile filter! I can easily see how higher mg/ml are achievable with this product!

xcel

killer · Dec 15, 2002

Nice info Xman you saved me some wasted gear.

killer

KaotikChem · Dec 17, 2002

BUMP!

I would like everyone to see this post.

Glad it worked well for you Excelbeyond.

TinyWulf · Dec 17, 2002

Not to steal any secrets, but here's my thinking:

Winstrol is definitely soluble in alcohol - so the first step can involve just dissolving all the winny you need in BA. In case BA is not enough (I can't see why though), add some benzyl benzoate which is a common cosolvent used in many pharmaceuticals.

Then, drop the solution into PEG 300. It is unclear how much PEG we can use here as at some point the solution will definitely drop out. However, PEG is great for non-water or oil-soluble compounds so I think that a pretty decent amount of BA/BB/winny solution can fit into PEG to produce a small percentage of BA in the final product.

Am I totally off the base here or would this work for say, 25mg/ml winny?

Basically, my point is, you can use alcohol as the main solvent and then dilute it with PEG until the soltion stops being stable. Then add some alcohol back in to normalize it.

Any comments on this? Again, not trying to get around Kaotic or anything - I just like understanding what gets mixed with what and why before it goes into the muscle.

/TinyWulf

P.S. As a last resort, you can use cyclodextrin as a cosolvent which will definitely put winny into solution. The only problem is that finding pure cyclo is next to impossible.....

KaotikChem · Dec 17, 2002

First thing is that it needs to be clear that the PolyEthylene Glycol(PEG) in your formula is the main solvent and the BA would be the co-colvent.

Co-solvents are used when the solute is not highly soluble in the desired main solvent.

The main problem with your formula is that when using BA as the co-solvent you set yourself up for a very painful injection since BA acts as an irritant at high ratios.

And the idea of adding Benzyl Benzoate is not good in this particular situation because BB is more oil soluble than it is water soluble so it is not the best choice to use in place of or with the BA since PEG is very water soluble.

You may have some success with this formula at the low 25mg/ml ratio that you were describing but that is not really a high enough mg/ml ratio for the product to be efficient.

In our formula we use BA only as a preservative and there is only about 1% BA in the solution. The trick with our formula is that the co-solvent we use actually works to create a melt of the powder that will remain liquid at very low temps.

This is why very high mg/ml ratios are possible with the easy kits.
And if your compound is even slightly soluble in oil you can use the easy oil kit and it will work well even at high mg/ml but if your compound is not soluble in oil at all(like winny). The standard easy kit solves that problem by using PEG instead.

I understand your concerns about the ingredients and I can assure you that they are all commonly used in pharmaceutical preparations. The co-solvent used in the easy kits is actually used in some patented preparations.

And last but not least....Your Cyclodextrin question....You are correct that finding pure Cyclodextrin can be a task in and of itself. That being said if you could get your hands on some for a reasonable enough price you could use it to increase the water solubility of winny to get it into a clear aqueous solution but it would require the use of Propylene Glycol(PG) which can be painful to say the least.

TinyWulf · Dec 18, 2002

Kaotik, thank you very much for the in-depth reply. You piqued my interest now that you expanded on the subject. So, my idea will actually work, but it's far from being optimal. I've read many reports of BA being a strong irritant so obviously there are better ways to go about this.

Another thing I found about PEG is that it is known to increase time release of solutes once injected - a peculiat quality which may or may not be desirable depending on situation. My gut feeling is that the "heavier" (more complex) the solvent is, the more potent it is for non-esterified compounds. For example, propylene glycol would have a limited use in this scenario, while a polyethylene (being a more complex compound) would make a better choice.

The bottom line seems to be that your co-solvent lowers the melting point of winstrol to a much lower temperature? Hmm, I must say that's quite interesting. I wish I had a decent background in bio chemistry

Thanks for all the info!!
/TinyWulf

P.S. It would be great if you'd offer your co-solvenbt for sale on its own (without a kit). I'd be very interested in purchasing it for experimental use.