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THE OFFICIAL PCT THREAD.

tkav1980

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this thread is in reguards to a problem BALDNAZI pointed out here. this is not for the beginners forum so lets keep the questions alittle more advanced than how much clomid do i need. I hope that the veterans and resident experts will jump on board with theyre advanced knowledge and help alot of us less knowledgeable people understand what were doing alittle better. please if your not 100% sure of your answer refrain from answering questions. hopefully this can become a good learning tool.
 
I hope it's okay if I ask a question here-

How do you guys feel about AIs during PCT like say low dose extremestane? Do you think that it will supress estrogen too much and be detremental or do you think it speeds up recovery?
 
cold turkey.

why prolong the inevitable.

time off everything is the only true post cycle therapy.
 
I used exemestane throughout my whole cycle and post cycle with clomid and never stopped feeling good. I kept 10 lbs of muscle out of 18 that I gained and it`s now been 3 months. I plan on doing the same thing next time.:)
 
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cold turkey.

why prolong the inevitable.

time off everything is the only true post cycle therapy.

Have you tried this vs taking something PCT?
If so, what are your results..do you have blood tests from both times? etc
 
**broken link removed**
Individual variation of hormonal recovery after cessation of luteinizing hormone-releasing hormone agonist therapy in men receiving long-term medical castration for prostate cancer

Author:
Kobayashi T, Nishizawa K and Mitsumori K.

10 August 2006

The main purpose of intermittent or interrupted androgen deprivation therapy in patients with prostate cancer is temporal androgen recovery in order to delay the hormone independence of tumour cells and to improve the patient’s quality of life. However, it has been reported that in some patients who have received long-term LHRHa therapy, serum testosterone does not recover.

This study (n=10) investigated the discontinuation of long-term LHRHa (goserelin or leuprorelin) therapy (median 39 months – 30 – 56 months), on serum testosterone, luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and PSA. Measurements were taken before cessation of therapy and then every 4 weeks until the total testosterone level recovered to >50 ng/dl.



Scand J of Urol and Nephrol 2006; 40: 198 – 203.

The main purpose of intermittent or interrupted androgen deprivation therapy in patients with prostate cancer is temporal androgen recovery in order to delay the hormone independence of tumour cells and to improve the patient’s quality of life. However, it has been reported that in some patients who have received long-term LHRHa therapy, serum testosterone does not recover.

This study (n=10) investigated the discontinuation of long-term LHRHa (goserelin or leuprorelin) therapy (median 39 months – 30 – 56 months), on serum testosterone, luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and PSA. Measurements were taken before cessation of therapy and then every 4 weeks until the total testosterone level recovered to >50 ng/dl.

All patients showed recovery of serum testosterone to >50 ng/ml within 26 – 327 days (median 98 days) after LHRHa cessation. LH recovery to >1.1 mIU/ml was observed within 26 – 98 days (median 53 days) and the interval between LH and testosterone recovery in each patient ranged from 0 – 274 days (median 32.5 days). FSH recovery to >10 mIU/ml paralleled the LH recovery. An increase in PSA to twice the baseline value was observed in 9 patients within 26 – 288 days (median 90 days). The total testosterone level at which the PSA increase occurred was < 20 ng/dl in one patient, 20 – 50 ng/dl in two and >50ng/dl in four. In all nine patients, with increased PSA, the PSA level returned to baseline after the resumption of LHRHa therapy.

The variable recovery of LH and FSH following long-term LHRHa therapy suggests that this results from disuse of the gonadotrophin producing cells of the pituitary gland which for individual patients require varying times to recover. Similarly the variable recovery of testosterone strongly suggests that the testicular Leydig cells require time to recover and this again varies from patient to patient. The results also identify that the variation in time from LH and FSH recovery to testosterone recovery, greatly affects the interval between cessation of LHRHa and testosterone recovery. Non-parallel recovery of PSA and testosterone add a further degree of variability to this confusing situation.

Whilst recognising that this study involved only a small number of patients the authors identify that the results suggest that the time of androgen exposure during LHRHa off-therapy period is likely to be highly variable and much shorter than expected. In fact in some patients there may only be a very small amount of androgen exposure. The authors suggest that if intermittent therapy is used to delay the acquirement of androgen independence by temporal androgen exposure, it is important that recovery of testosterone as well as PSA should be used to determine the period of “off-therapy”.

i understand this isn't a perfect study, in that they used LHRHa to suppress LH/FSH and not AS but the overall effect(suppression) is similar. here's something interesting: LH and FSH recover quickly but testosterone takes longer to recover. even after the hypothalamus/pituitary recover it takes a while for the testes to produce testosterone normally. i think this is why people who use hCG have easier recoveries. because when you take hCG the testes never shutdown. only the hypothalamus/pituitary shutdown and they recover quickly.

thewhite9t: i think ais do speed up recovery
 
Last edited:
I used exemestane throughout my whole cycle and post cycle with clomid and never stopped feeling good. I kept 10 lbs of muscle out of 18 that I gained and it`s now been 3 months. I plan on doing the same thing next time.:)

I'm doing the same thing now, I'm over 2 weeks into pct, 4 weeks since my last shot. Aromasin is amazing. I'm STILL getting stronger every single workout, no bullshit. I have no idea how its even possible. This is even after being on tren... Never have I been able to increase weight in the gym during pct. I will never go without aromasin ever again.
 
Twenty years ago when in my late teens and early twenties I never did PCT. There was no PCT other than HCG, and most us us used that wrong anyway.

These days I try to utilize HCG throughout the cycle and I use both clomid and nolvadex in PCT for about 4 weeks. Does this actually help get levels back up faster? I don't know as I am not willing to run two long cycles and complete one with PCT and one without to comparison test. What I know it does help with is it will smooth the transition and in particular it helps the emotional roller-coaster encountered with going cold-turkey.

At this point (and age) I will probably stay on 250mg of T a week forever anyway as the quality of my life is significantly improved outside the gym because of it.
 
I think many people miss a whole part of PCT such as addressing taxed adrenal glands and mood stabilization from possible neurotransmitter imbalance from long term AAS use and stimulants often used in cycles.

I feel Adaptogens and Nootropics need to be incorporated into PCT.
 
I think many people miss a whole part of PCT such as addressing taxed adrenal glands and mood stabilization from possible neurotransmitter imbalance from long term AAS use and stimulants often used in cycles.

I feel Adaptogens and Nootropics need to be incorporated into PCT.

Goooood Point!!! I agree 100% dragonfire. I have not used in a long time, but I have been researching this kind of thing forever...
I came off a long cycle many months ago and utilized only clomid, humanofort and tribestan. Worked better than most anything else i've tried in the past.
 
I used exemestane throughout my whole cycle and post cycle with clomid and never stopped feeling good. I kept 10 lbs of muscle out of 18 that I gained and it`s now been 3 months. I plan on doing the same thing next time.:)

I take it you ran exemestane constant and added clomid 2 weeks after your last shot? no hcg? thanks
 
i'd advise against use of nolvadex for any reason. i think ai's like exemestane, anastrozole, letrozole will work just as well or better(for our desired effect) without the added clotting risks. clots affect too many bbers to even consider increasing the risk with nolvadex.

Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) Drug Information: Uses, Side Effects, Drug Interactions and Warnings at RxList
All other adverse effects occurred with similar frequency in the 2 treatment groups, with the exception of thrombotic events; a higher incidence was seen in NOLVADEX-treated patients (through 5 years, 1.7% vs. 0.4%). Two of the patients treated with NOLVADEX who had thrombotic events died.

thats a 425% increase of a life threatening problem. clots are a main cause of heart attacks, strokes, and pulmonary embolisms
 
This..

should be in everyones PCT !
 

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What's the verdict on tapers vs SERMS usage.

like week 1-12=500mg test
week 13=300mg
week14=100mg

+Hcg and asin using week 1-14 or till ester clears. I find serms to be an overkill.
 
My routine has been Adex 4 weeks after beginning and continued throughout up to 4 weeks after. 1mg PER DAY

It has always kept bloating down especially the third chin I used to get without using before.

Cycle was 5oo mg Sus Mon Wed Fri

75mg anavar 10 weeks before end.
 
I will taper down my test and then add in mg;s super test booster first time trying it seems to be good stuff...........normally i;ll just taper off
 
should be in everyones PCT !




I know this is like comparing apples to oranges as i have never done gear or anything else (here for knowledge before i cross-over to the darkside) but i use this same stack every couple of months and def notice an increase in key areas.
 

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