Too lean for muscle growth?

[mr.e01]

conditioning myself through bodyopus method experiment

I am in my offseason and try to stay lean, I know that if kick down my high carb days(800-1000 carbs) (which are 2x /week) to moderate carb days(300-500 carbs) i can kick down my bf to the single digit range, my main concern is that my training may suffer and I may not gain muscle as good if it all - I do plan on competing, so I really do want to keep gaining more muscle, but staying real lean and looking good year round is also a major goal of mine- what are your opinons? I have posted a pic or two show where I am at my current bf range- and i would like to know if it would be smart to get leaner in my 3 year offseason or stay where I am at now-thanks in advance-mr.e-just wanted to add that I am also 20 yrs old and these shots are both taken on my extremely high carb days-

***I have updated this thread to first get down to contest conditioning and then stay 10-20 lbs from there- i feel it will be the easiest route- i hope some of u can help out and maybe get some use from this thread for your next diet down using the ketosis method-

 

[Big A]

I dont' think you should worry about being too lean. Actually, you shouldn't be getting any fatter than you are now. Eat clean and lots of protein and you should be adding muscle and hopefully lose a bit of fat too.

 

[mr.e01]

understood- I will eat clean and light, lots of protein and will kick in some cardio for some further fat loss/heart health- no more extremely high carb days.those just hinder me- I will just carb cycle low and mod. days - and I should get to where I need to be--thanks

 

[marshall]

when you are going low carb, it's good to throw a high carb day in there at least once a week, twice a week if you're already really lean.

 

[mr.e01]

marshall- its funny, you say this , but it always seems to be the problem, the carb days DESTROY me. they hinder me getting lean, I guess I contribute to it because carbs just dont satisfy me, the way fat does, so of course I eat way more on those days. I plan on eating a high pro, fat diet that includes mostly meats, chick. , pb, oils, prot. powder, eggs , fish, etc, etc. I will get some carbs from my cheeses and pb, along with some of the meats but not many, but i know my body feels less full and more satisfied on fats than carbs for energy. If I feel too depleted I will throw in a high carb/low fat day here or there, 1x every other week or so. I will see how it works in the offseason, I mean this is the time to experiment to see what works best , right?

 

[marshall]

You will get shredded on this program if you stick with it. It's the old Anabolic Diet by DiPasquale (he morphed it into the Metabolic Diet to appeal to the general masses).

You need to count your calories on the high fat/protein days. It is not an eat as much as you want program.

Start with 12 calories lb/bodyweight and drop the cardio, you won't need it and it will preserve muscle to avoid it.

6 days strict, then 1 day go hog wild and eat whatever you want. It will not retard your progress. If you are not making progress, it is not your carb up day holding you back, you are taking in too many calories throughout the week.

When you get to your ideal condition you can keep it going as a lifestyle diet and add another carb day 5 on/2 off, with a higher carb/junk day the 1st day and cut back with more complex carbs the 2nd day then back on.

From your pics, it looks like this diet will be quite agreeable with you. Stick with it.

 

[mr.e01]

update-ketosis diet down

I have understood to get where I need to be in the offseason I should diet down to contest shape and gradually increase from there- to stay very lean and gain-Like I stated previously in the thread

so I will be dieting down using the bodyopus (ketosis)(high fat/mod.protein/ very low carb) method provided in the article section- and updating this thread weekly,-

I have not viewed anyone in the threads with pics on the ketosis method while dieting down- so I will experiment in the offseason to get into contest shape with this method and really see if it has its merits and how I will do and post it on the board- hopefully it will help me and some of you on the diet see how to get best results for dieting on this method-

I am not planning on doing a show, but there is a show in 8 weeks right by me- if I feel I am shredded enough to do well I just may enter in the novice class, but this dieting down is really for me to get to learn my body better for my next show in a couple of years-

I am following the hardcore dieting thread(bodyopus)

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15982

to a T along with the 3 day HIT(Mon, Tues, Wed. only) training split provided by BIG A along with some light cardio and light training on the off days(thurs and fri)- Sat and sun I am off and I will increase my cals and carbs slightly and decrease my fat intake significantly- I will update next week and I am sure this thread will keep me motivated to keep going- I really hope it helps some of you on the board too!

 

[marshall]

Looks good.

IMO, I wouldn't add cardio at this point. I believe you will be able to reach your goal through manipulating your diet. Try to preserve as much muscle as you can.

If you absolutely need to, add cardio down the road "if" progress stalls.

 

[mr.e01]

week 1

I wanted to update now since I have finished my first week of this ketosis diet and I will be very busy tomorrow studying for school and working-

- I started on tuesday morning and was in a deep ketosis by thursday around 3 pm

- I kicked up my protein and lowered my fat on friday and kept to a moderate ketosis all the way through tonite(sat. nite)

- I trained T, W, Th through the HIT method, and did cardio on friday. Saturday, I did some exercise and depleted my muscles, but no cardio sat or sunday.

- As of today I lost 3 lbs of weight. Right now I am 202lbs. I started at 205lbs. it is mostly water.

- Tomorrow I will carb up adding 700 extra calories to my normal day. So I will be eating around 3000 cals, normally I eat 2300 cals. My fat intake tomorrow will be very low. I will only do one carb up day this week as I started on tuesday instead of monday due to labor day. Next week will be a normal week.

- My macro ratio to get into ketosis was 73% fat/ 24% pro/ 3% carb- 2320 cals
- My macro ratio once in ketosis was 58% fat/ 35% pro/ 7% carb-2320 cals
- My macro ratio on my carb days are 59% carb/ 26% protein/ 15% fat
- Overall i felt very good and when I entered ketosis I did not even want to eat at all, my appetite was destroyed by the intake of fat. Infact sometimes I had to remind myself to eat due to not being hungry and being so busy with schoolwork-
- I will show one pic for this week but its not that major of a change-but I would like to post pics weekly to show my progress for myself and whoever wants to view the thread-

 

[marshall]

Hope it's going good bro, don't put too much "thinking" into it.

6 days hi-fat, zero carbs (get your calorie level on point), 1 day maximum carb up, anything goes.

You'll shed that water and alot of bodyfat. When you look like you want bf wise, add a 2nd cleaner carb day. It's a pretty easy diet, don't overthink it.

 

[mr.e01]

week 2

Marshall, thanks for the encouagement bro- I am def not overthinking it, just doing what the program outlines through bodyopus to a T-

- I put one pic up- its not a major difference, but I like to keep it updated by the week like i said I would


I started diet for ketosis on monday- the macros were exactly the same as last week -2320 cals 73% fat/ 24% pro/ 3% carbs

I fell into ketosis by tuesday evening

I kicked up my protein intake and lowered my fat intake on wednesday- still 2320 cals -58% fat/ 35% pro/7% carb

I stayed in a moderate ketosis untill sat morning-
To get into ketosis I felt terrible, but when I got into ketosis i felt great


Sat and sunday were my clean and controlled carb up days-
I carbed up on white rice from 6am-12 pm on rice on sat- 59% carb/26% pro/15% fat -3000 cals- the rest of the day I ate my clean fat free protein sources
I am doing the same thing for Sunday- 3000 cals- my last carb meal will be at 12 pm, the rest of the day will be clean sources of protein

- this also makes it easier and quicker to get into ketosis in about 48 hours compared to 72 hours- so I get more time in ketosis throughout the week-

- I lost abot 2 lbs bringing me down to about 201-200lbs-

I trained M, T, W, by way of the HIT style and I did not go very heavy because I do not want to injur myself-

Th and Fri- I did 30 min of very light cardio first thing in the morning, to deplete my body and some light exercise on fri. night to deplete even more-

Sat and sun I did no exercise and just had my carb days and studied and worked at my job-

The diet is very easy to stick to and I feel great when I am in ketosis, but I hate my carb up days and the days before i get into ketosis( monday/tues morn.), because I feel tired and sluggish and unsatisfied - The training is breif and intense and I dont reccomend going heavy because there is a great risk for injusry when training on no carbs-

I will keep you updated and I am still following this program exactly as outlined, even though sometimes i want to diet even harder, I dont, b/c I want to do this right and not overdiet-

I will keep this updated -

 

[Big Danny]

I tried for the last three months loading up on Sunday with very positive results. It is amazing how the fat is melting away on the days following this "piggin'out" day. As Big A explained the body thinks is fat,therefore will increase the fat burning process.

 

[marshall]

any updates?

 

[mr.e01]

didnt update this thread, like i planned , but i have still been eating clean, lower carbs, higher fat, and around 250-300g protein /day , i kicked in cardio, every day for an hour too at a low pace, my goal is still to be really lean(6-8%bf) year round - i have got to a certain point and it stagnates, dieitng year round cannot be done for me, so I just eat a very clean diet and moderate cals -i have just recently started to use a low dose of clenbuterol and t3 to try and get me to another level of leanness, i started almost a week ago, this is my first time using it- i will try and keep this updated to see if i can obtain my bf goals for this offseason- this is a recent pic- i feel i got around 5lbs leaner than before, but i still want to be better.

 

[YoungNJacked]

wouldnt it be better to just hit the free weights harder and eat low sugar/carbs
than to do this yearround? i mean it seems like doing what you are doing seems counter productive with what you wanna do in the future. dont you wanna get more muscle mass and then it makes it easier to cut down? seems moderate cals and whatnot isnt too great when you are a bodybuilder.

 

[mr.e01]

thanks for your good reply, ynj, but i also do wanna look good year round, its tough getting fat and bloated and force feeding yourself, which i used to do to gain muscle..as a bodybuilder , i do wanna gain more muscle, but i dont wanna put the fat on , but i guess you cant have it your way. so i got to find that gray area to get where i want to be with experience- im still young so im still learning

 

[YoungNJacked]

im young too bro, 23 actually and i was just like you as far as not wanting to get fat, but you know what happens? your metaobolism gets used to moderate cals and you never grow as a result. honestly, the reason i never grew was i ate like crap. i am guessing that is your problem as well seeing it is taking you forever to drop fat. i mean it is pretty simple i found out.......eat really clean, low fat high complex carbs and lean protein, do cardio 30 minutes everydamn day, and lift when you feel good. listen to your body bro, it isnt too hard. there isnt any grey area, you are just young and stubborn like i was. as soon as i stopped messin around and making excuses and really started tightening up the diet did i see dramatic results. in my avatar is my pic from 22 years old at 265. i am now 270 at 23 but i have dropped a good 3% or more bf. how did i do it? stop making excuses about why i cant get lean, and started reading. its easy bro, low fat diet, low fat body, high fat stuff is complete BS IMO.

 

[mr.e01]

i will save the dieting for the competition time , i dont think anyone can diet year round, and i need to grow so i will. but ill keep my cardio in and eat clean and just up the cals, and when i wanna do a show in the future ill diet then-

 

[YoungNJacked]

as you will soon find out, the building the muscle is the hardest part bro, getting cut is easy, just takes willpower. all of us were like you at some stage, not wanting to get fat, but in the same sentence wanting to get jacked. honestly the hardest part is packing on mass while not getting any fat bro, but all it takes
is being open for change. heck i always wondered why i couldnt get rid of the spare tire from football.....then i used some older friends advice and drastically changed my diet. i know many people advise against low fat diets, but its because they are hard bro, and people use excuses. but the way i started looking at it was like this............why waste all this effort and time and never get results, when if i just sacked up and ate really well and watched sugar and saturated fats i would get them. to be the bearer of bad news, protein isnt all that dude. esp when you are young and uneducated. it is much better to just eat lean and lots of it than to count this and that, it drives you crazy. only thing i would suggest that really helped me was writing down what i eat everyday. so that way i cant hide the fact to myself that i need to improve. this sport is all about longevity and consistency, not about fad diets and miracle drugs. atkins and all those high fat diets are a load of crap. its only popular because america is fat and they wanna eat fat. believe it or not fat makes you fat. if you dont believe me talk to some of the guys on here dude. im sure many pros will tell you carbs and protein with minimal fats(efa's). only reason fad diets such as low carb work is you eliminate calories plain and simple from an area. you would also lose if you got rid of fats. but fats give you cholestrol and BP problems as well as diabetes and other risks. carbs hardly make you fat. i would test you and challenge you to eat a days worth of calories in all natural carb sources. tell me how much you take a crap and sweat from it. tell me your mood. i wouldnt even attempt to try a high fat diet again. i did for a term paper in college for sports nutrition on high fat diets and tested it on myself, by the end of week 1 on atkins i had BP issues, bad headaches, lethargy, and felt like crap. i switched to high carb and total change. probably the best advice i ever got was to eat as much or more of carbs than protein and only fat your should get should be from animal fats in lean meats.