Touri Mohammed - 2010 IFBB World Amateur Overall Winner

Magnum · Nov 24, 2010

HUMALOG said:
yea munzer in columbus in 91 at the arnold.........oh yea he's dead go figure. lol

You always gotta be a party pooper don't ya.

He was shredded though.

chris250 · Nov 24, 2010

Magnum said:
You always gotta be a party pooper don't ya. He was shredded though.

Magnum how about 93 flex wheeler at the arnold classic that year .... his rookie year.... shreeded .... :headbang:

who else would you consider shreeded for contest conditioning...???

HUMALOG · Nov 24, 2010

chris250 not to interject on your question with magnum but you mentioned flex ..............kidney transplant. i mentioned munzer (who i got to see in person in that insane condition)..... dead. bulsemo mentioned firsthand the insane diuretic use on the middle eastern guys and the crazy water restriction. you guys all wanna see this conditioning in the states..............but at what cost to the competitor?????? i remember titus discussing why he never matched his level of conditioning/dryness when he won his pro-card and it was along the lines of him not wanting to end up dead or needing an organ transplant. the diuretics go hand in hand with the extreme conditioning unfortunately. i am not saying its necessary, its just they are/were doing.

hope everyone has a great thanksgiving. HUMALOG .........out:headbang:

chris hope your health is improving by the way. jethro you out there?? b-boy hope ya get that pro-card this year. jim your box is full

Magnum · Nov 24, 2010

chris250 said:
Magnum how about 93 flex wheeler at the arnold classic that year .... his rookie year.... shreeded .... :headbang:

who else would you consider shreeded for contest conditioning...???

There are a lot of guys. Off top of my head, Samir in his heyday and also at the 1990 NABBA Worlds. I remember talking to Garry Bartlett from Muscle Mag a few years ago and him telling me about Frank Zane and how Frank was so ripped that everytime he moved his muscles he had fibers dancing around all over his body. This was something that pics couldn't really show. Here's a guy that's been to a ton of pro shows and he told me he wasn't impressed by the guys today. I have also been back stage at many pro shows and I was kinda disappointed by what I saw. These guys are big, but when they flex nothing really happens. There are no striations within the muscle that much anymore. I was at the Pittsburgh Pro show back in 1990 when Samir won and I had front row seats. I remember being blown away at how fuckin grainy and striated these guys were especially Samir, photos don't show this level of conditioning.

The extremely shredded look is hard to attain and the question is can if be done safely. I would say that it can be done as safe as possible. There is nothing healthy about walking around at 4% bodyfat. When you get down to that level it's hard to think straight. A lot of people think that you need diuretics to get shredded and this is simply not true. Diuretics do not help you lose bodyfat and everyone knows this, but most people use them as a crutch thinking that if they keep a little bit of fat they will magically transform themselves once they take a few. It's just a much a mistake to drink three gallons of water before a show than it is to cut it. Just drink enough water to satisfy your thirst. Now, diuretics def can help you achieve a grainier look, but in today's bodybuilding it doesn't really matter as there is too much intramuscular fat storage from insulin use for diuretics to be able to work and that's assuming you hit it right anyway.

hollywood8 · Nov 24, 2010

I've never learned so much from reading one thread. Thanks to all for their info.

chris250 · Nov 24, 2010

HUMALOG said:
chris250 not to interject on your question with magnum but you mentioned flex ..............kidney transplant. i mentioned munzer (who i got to see in person in that insane condition)..... dead. bulsemo mentioned firsthand the insane diuretic use on the middle eastern guys and the crazy water restriction. you guys all wanna see this conditioning in the states..............but at what cost to the competitor?????? i remember titus discussing why he never matched his level of conditioning/dryness when he won his pro-card and it was along the lines of him not wanting to end up dead or needing an organ transplant. the diuretics go hand in hand with the extreme conditioning unfortunately. i am not saying its necessary, its just they are/were doing.

hope everyone has a great thanksgiving. HUMALOG .........out:headbang:

chris hope your health is improving by the way. jethro you out there?? b-boy hope ya get that pro-card this year. jim your box is full

Humalog,

yes, thank you ..my b.p. is back to a good normal range now (120-130 over 80ish, sometimes it gets to 85) heart rate is around 70 bpm...my E.F. is back to over 50% ...

chemistery-brain · Nov 24, 2010

a have an ol md magazine and paul dillet (the word) said in his column that bodybuilding is about building muscle not loosing fat!!!

chris250 · Nov 24, 2010

Magnum said:
There are a lot of guys. Off top of my head, Samir in his heyday and also at the 1990 NABBA Worlds. I remember talking to Garry Bartlett from Muscle Mag a few years ago and him telling me about Frank Zane and how Frank was so ripped that everytime he moved his muscles he had fibers dancing around all over his body. This was something that pics couldn't really show. Here's a guy that's been to a ton of pro shows and he told me he wasn't impressed by the guys today. I have also been back stage at many pro shows and I was kinda disappointed by what I saw. These guys are big, but when they flex nothing really happens. There are no striations within the muscle that much anymore. I was at the Pittsburgh Pro show back in 1990 when Samir won and I had front row seats. I remember being blown away at how fuckin grainy and striated these guys were especially Samir, photos don't show this level of conditioning.

The extremely shredded look is hard to attain and the question is can if be done safely. I would say that it can be done as safe as possible. There is nothing healthy about walking around at 4% bodyfat. When you get down to that level it's hard to think straight. A lot of people think that you need diuretics to get shredded and this is simply not true. Diuretics do not help you lose bodyfat and everyone knows this, but most people use them as a crutch thinking that if they keep a little bit of fat they will magically transform themselves once they take a few. It's just a much a mistake to drink three gallons of water before a show than it is to cut it. Just drink enough water to satisfy your thirst. Now, diuretics def can help you achieve a grainier look, but in today's bodybuilding it doesn't really matter as there is too much intramuscular fat storage from insulin use for diuretics to be able to work and that's assuming you hit it right anyway.

Magnum,

if you would (if you want to) what cycle's did the guys do back in the 80's...that your could remember (not saying names ofcourse) for precontest training...and did the guys in the 80's use any anti estrogens ? All there was at that time was nolvadex (sp?) correct ?

Also, do you believe that high doses of test, and insulin are responsable for the loss of deep striations, and that grainy dry to the bone look ? Could someone like King (cause you worked with him, and know is body prettty well...just for an example) get that crazy dry to the bone look again (like he did when he won the Collage nationals, or his early year's in bodybuilding...Example his rookie year, nationals the year before) If he changed things up, diet, drugs, training, ect, ect...Also, if he could get that crazy striations and dry look again...how much weight (if any) would he lose to have that look again...

b-boy · Nov 25, 2010

HUMALOG said:
chris250 not to interject on your question with magnum but you mentioned flex ..............kidney transplant. i mentioned munzer (who i got to see in person in that insane condition)..... dead. bulsemo mentioned firsthand the insane diuretic use on the middle eastern guys and the crazy water restriction. you guys all wanna see this conditioning in the states..............but at what cost to the competitor?????? i remember titus discussing why he never matched his level of conditioning/dryness when he won his pro-card and it was along the lines of him not wanting to end up dead or needing an organ transplant. the diuretics go hand in hand with the extreme conditioning unfortunately. i am not saying its necessary, its just they are/were doing.

hope everyone has a great thanksgiving. HUMALOG .........out:headbang:

chris hope your health is improving by the way. jethro you out there?? b-boy hope ya get that pro-card this year. jim your box is full

thank you!

Magnum · Nov 25, 2010

chris250 said:
Magnum,

if you would (if you want to) what cycle's did the guys do back in the 80's...that your could remember (not saying names ofcourse) for precontest training...and did the guys in the 80's use any anti estrogens ? All there was at that time was nolvadex (sp?) correct ?

Also, do you believe that high doses of test, and insulin are responsable for the loss of deep striations, and that grainy dry to the bone look ? Could someone like King (cause you worked with him, and know is body prettty well...just for an example) get that crazy dry to the bone look again (like he did when he won the Collage nationals, or his early year's in bodybuilding...Example his rookie year, nationals the year before) If he changed things up, diet, drugs, training, ect, ect...Also, if he could get that crazy striations and dry look again...how much weight (if any) would he lose to have that look again...

OK this comes to mind. Years ago I used to train with an IFBB judge and he told me what a certain pro's cycle was for contest time. This guy was very popular back in the mid 80's and was known for his extreme hardness and vascularity. This is what I recall he said he took. I don't remember him saying that he did any test. Also Nolvadex was used back then, but was very hard to get. I remember a guy I knew back then had a girlfriend who used to snag a couple bottles a week off the drug line at a place she used to work. Things like that were very hard to get back then.

Anadrol 200mg daily
Primo acetate 100mg daily
Parabolin one amp EOD

kscowboy · Nov 25, 2010

Anyone ever look at pics of natural bodybuilders. Now those boys can get shreaded!!!!!! And i mean shreaded!! Any common link there????

Magnum · Nov 25, 2010

kscowboy said:
Anyone ever look at pics of natural bodybuilders. Now those boys can get shreaded!!!!!! And i mean shreaded!! Any common link there????

I have trained many natural (true) guys. First they don't have to deal with a the water retention that drugs cause so they can see the fat loss easier and not using insulin also has it's advantages too. No diuretics is another plus.

mule · Nov 25, 2010

Magnum said:
I have trained many natural (true) guys. First they don't have to deal with a the water retention that drugs cause so they can see the fat loss easier and not using insulin also has it's advantages too. No diuretics is another plus.

when you train Naturals do you use any diuretics at all? how about the herbal ones?

concreteguy · Nov 25, 2010

just saying

Magnum said:
, but in today's bodybuilding it doesn't really matter as there is too much intramuscular fat storage from insulin use for diuretics to be able to work and that's assuming you hit it right anyway.

Wasn't the point of this thread about how hard and "old school dry" these guys look? It has been said buy a guy living and training over there "they are pounding slin ". "30 to 70 iu per day of slin".

BTW: I train with a natural Pro Gary Massington. He has NEVER seen a day as dry or hard as these guys.

buselmo · Nov 25, 2010

concreteguy said:
Wasn't the point of this thread about how hard and "old school dry" these guys look? It has been said buy a guy living and training over there "they are pounding slin ". "30 to 70 iu per day of slin".

BTW: I train with a natural Pro Gary Massington. He has NEVER seen a day as dry or hard as these guys.

yep... slin gets a bad rap... but people never blame the "slam 500 grams of carbs 2 minutes after your 3 iu injection, then slam another 25 metric tons of carbs 30 minutes after that" on how distented their bellies are from 'slin'.

a lot of people said "really???" when i told them insulin takes your blood sugar down... and these were people who placed much higher than i ever did in contests.

not the slin... not the GH... and not the last week prep...

concreteguy · Nov 25, 2010

So true!

buselmo said:
yep... slin gets a bad rap... but people never blame the "slam 500 grams of carbs 2 minutes after your 3 iu injection, then slam another 25 metric tons of carbs 30 minutes after that" on how distented their bellies are from 'slin'.

a lot of people said "really???" when i told them insulin takes your blood sugar down... and these were people who placed much higher than i ever did in contests.

not the slin... not the GH... and not the last week prep...

Thats the direction I wanted to go with in my "glucose Tabs" thread. With the tabs being a true measure. It has turned out to be a simple way of working close with the slin and not over cooking the carbs.

IMO:Slin is the most anabolic shit there is. I think the truth between the freaks and the humans are how they naturally respond in the same type of storage capasity. But we can leave that for the "experts" at PM.

What I can say about slin and last day prep? If all things are on point, the proper balance of slin, dextros and water or lack of, can produce jaw dropping results.

But I know I ain't telling you nuttin LOL

alpmaster · Nov 25, 2010

Buselmo,

If an athlete there is using say 60iu a day of slin, would that be say 30iu am + 30iu post workout? Or say around 10iu per meal x 6 meals? I would probably think the latter, am I right?

buselmo · Nov 25, 2010

alpmaster said:
Buselmo,

If an athlete there is using say 60iu a day of slin, would that be say 30iu am + 30iu post workout? Or say around 10iu per meal x 6 meals? I would probably think the latter, am I right?

warning: really stupid advice here, and i'm talking out of my ass... no one should believe this shit.

from what i know, not a lot of people use insulin without GH... most would go with 8 iu of gh, using 2 iu at a time with 10-20 iu of slin...
i remember when i was taking 12-16 iu of gh for a short period of time, i would inject 4 iu with 15 iu slin 3-4 times a day, and i wouldn't go hypo for hours even if i took the shots on an empty stomach and i don't eat for 2-3 hours.

I remember a couple of times where i took slin without GH, and i'd take 15 ius... if i go hypo, i'd sip on some redbull or flavored beer and it would go away. i don't need to eat 10 grams of carbs per iu minimum as all the bullshit i see around here.
if it truly were 10 grams per 1 iu of slin, then a lot of diabetics would be dead or morbidly obese right now.

if you were to use slin alone, i'd say fix the slin around your diet, and not the other way around as i see here. you eat 2000 cals, and then you decide to use insulin, then you say you need more carbs... pretty soon you'd be eating 3500 cals due to the hypo scares, and blame all the fat gain on slin instead of blaming it on the extra 400 grams of 'waxy maize' and dextrose.

if you don't have any experience with slin, you should try different kinds... personally i find much better results from humalin-r... most people find better results with humalog (especially people who are sensitive)... so see which kind you react to better, and plan the usage around your meals.

if you use GH with the slin... you won't need hardly any carbs... so you don't have to worry about all that stuff