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TRT into cruise/cycle + labs

warlock

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How often does your doctor require testing for you??

My doctor requires blood work every 3 months to check before refilling the next script. I only get 3 months worth of TRT at a time.. So I only have about 8 weeks to play with in between if I want to raise the dose but I never go above 200mg..

What dose do you take for TRT? Are you able to pull it off by doing 8 week cycles and allowing a month to get back to baseline before getting labs? What compounds do you use?
 

NEMSZ

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What dose do you take for TRT? Are you able to pull it off by doing 8 week cycles and allowing a month to get back to baseline before getting labs? What compounds do you use?

The following is for entertainment and hypothetical purposes only...

My doc also doesn’t believe in multiple injections per week for whatever reason so I take 80mg 3 days before blood test and I get a 550-600 Test level..

I’m actually prescribed 200mg per week because I knew he was conservative as hell before my first ever test with him, and I knew 100mg put me at 825ng 3 days later. So I played with it so I could get scripted more than I need...

I usually take 30mg EOD as my TRT and that puts me around 900ng where I feel great, and about 3 weeks before I’m supposed to get tested I’ll stop taking TRT for 2 weeks, then 3-4 days or so before my blood test I’ll take my 80mg shot and it comes right on the money where my doc is happy...

It works just fine when I decide to up the dose to 200mg per week.. I do that for about 8 weeks then I take 2 weeks off, sometimes a couple days more, then 3-4 days before my Blood test I take my 80mg shot and comes in range every time...

I don’t take any other compounds...
 

Kaladryn

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Damn that’s a cool ass doc... Mine is super conservative (my Urologist) my GP is a family friend and he’s real cool about everything. But my Uro requires Test levels and H/H every 3 months or he won’t give me a script and he freaks out if my hematocrit is 52 even though completely natural off everything for 1 year and test levels @ 200 my natural Hematocrit is 49-50, sometimes I go in a bit dehydrated and get a 51-52 and he freaks out and wants to lower my dose and I had to convince him to chill out that I was dehydrated.. He also wants my Test levels at 500-600, I told him I feel better at 900-950 and he wasn’t having It saying I could have a stroke and that it wasn’t healthy...
If you aren't doing cardio, you can actually lower your crit by doing it, when you are in better cardiovascular shape, you will have higher blood volume and your RBC won't increase proportionately because it is already maximally stimulated. Also, just get your GP to do your TRT, they all do it pretty much. And btw, as you probably know, 52 is totally fine if it's stable and not increasing.
 

NEMSZ

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If you aren't doing cardio, you can actually lower your crit by doing it, when you are in better cardiovascular shape, you will have higher blood volume and your RBC won't increase proportionately because it is already maximally stimulated. Also, just get your GP to do your TRT, they all do it pretty much. And btw, as you probably know, 52 is totally fine if it's stable and not increasing.

Yea I do a fair bit of cardio, but admittedly it could be more. I walk about 15k+ steps a day so when I do cardio it’s like 10-15 min jump rope or something like that a couple times a week.. And yea I’m going to talk to my GP about that, I’m kinda tired of this nonsense with my Uro.. Yea it usually givers around 50-52, only ever been 53 when I was extremely dehydrated, like didn’t drink any water since the night before and got bloodwork like noon the next day.. Hemoglobin is always 16.5ish
 

Kaladryn

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I wouldn't worry about those numbers if the rest of your blood markers are point. I go down to 48-49 when I do 10mg/day but as soon as I up it to 200+/week I am at 50-51 pretty fast, my doctor isn't worried until it gets above 53, sounds like you are fine especially if it's only when dehydrated.
 

gotgame

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SHBG has nothing to do with it.

If you are saying that SHBG doesnt play a role in testosterone metabolism/clearance than you are incorrect.

If you are suggesting that if ones SHBG is within mostly a normal range then slight variations in SHBG dont need to be readily accounted for then that would be true but you should state that so as to not confuse other people who dont understand the role of SHBG.The latter is the reason I didnt go into detail because in this particular case its not particularly significant but i stated it plays a role in clearance of testosterone from ones body which is correct.

for people who are not sure of the role of SHBG ( and i often lump albumin into this for practical purposes) you should look into the effects of SHBG on glucuronidation and cellular efflux. Many people think its just free testosterone that has cellular effects. Its mostly just easier for guys to think of it that way but truth of the matter is that SHBG when bound to test can be taken up via megalin ( not really a theory anymore after some good tracer studies) then your lysosomes basically break that down and test is already inside cells and can do its thing. Maybe this is beyond what guys want to think about but it clearly shows the continued role of SHBG and how it can effect testosterone metabolism/clearance.


For guys who are in the extremes of the range with very low SHBG or high if one considers how testosterone is excreted, used, gets into cells, how its released from SHBG, how SHBG is regulated in itself its becomes very clear that SHBG " does have something to do with it".

For the purposes though of this thread though its not necessary to do into such detail unless one was going to be altering SHBG signficantly. It becomes more important if one is looking to obtain a very particular blood level for testing purposes.
 

Kaladryn

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If you are saying that SHBG doesnt play a role in testosterone metabolism/clearance than you are incorrect.
Esterified testosterone doesn't interact with SHBG.
 

gotgame

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Esterified testosterone doesn't interact with SHBG.

Ah ok. Yes that is true.

But after that gets cleaved then SHBG plays a role. Its really beyond the scope for healthy guys on TRT doses. If you start to talk about guys with liver failure or other conditions that may raise or lower SHBG then we have to consider it.
 

pickapeck

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Doesn't seem to matter what I use. 3.5 weeks off and I am crashed. You can talk about SHBG, ester and 1/2 lifes all day and my body just crashes in 3.5 weeks.
 

Dadbod3000

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Your TRT doctor is simply required to make you get labs they don't care what they read my test level was 1900 on my last lab dr said it was a toxic level I said I forgot to take a couple days off and took shot right before whatever they dotn care they are simply required to make you get labs
 

Sides

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Esterified testosterone doesn't interact with SHBG.

That's a rather pedantic observation, don't you think? Reminds me of Bill Clinton arguing about what the definition of "is" is.

While technically correct, of course once the ester is cleaved off, then of course the unesterified testosterone interacts with SHBG. More testosterone lowers SHBG, more estrogen raises SHBG, although of course there are other factors at work as well.

I have seen you post the same yourself, where you said that you have no idea why guys take DHT compounds like Proviron to lower SHBG. Your solution to lower SHBG was just to take more testosterone. If the resulting aromatization raises estrogen too much, then your solution was to take an AI to increase the ratio of androgens to estrogens, and to lower E2 to acceptable levels.

Have you changed your mind on that point?

Personally, I've been taking exogenous esterified testosterone and other steroids for over 28 years. Every time I increase the dose, SHBG goes down. When I lower the dose to TRT levels, SHBG goes up. If you've seen different, I'd like to hear about it.
 

Kaladryn

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That's a rather pedantic observation, don't you think? Reminds me of Bill Clinton arguing about what the definition of "is" is.
wtf

As to the rest, I really thought my simple statement was more than enough for everyone to understand when put in context. The context involves esterified testosterone clearance times, SHBG has nothing to do with esterified testosterone clearance times. Furthermore, "free" testosterone has a halflife measured in minutes, and only extensive interaction with binding proteins increase this to be a few hours. SHBG isn't' even the main binding protein! Additionally, SHBG levels matter even less (or more) because of membrane receptors for SHBG that facilitate transportation to the AR.

Regardless of the above, the topic is how long a person has to stay off esterified testosterone to get to approximately TRT levels, and SHBG has nothing to do with that. The +/- a few hours isn't going to matter. Oh and like 99% of free test is bound, and if it isn't bound to SHBG, it isn't just floating free, it's bound to albumin instead (which binds the majority of testosterone anyway).

Bill Clinton earned the right to change the definition of a word or two, his 85% approval rating immediately after that testimony more than showed that :p
 

Kaladryn

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I have seen you post the same yourself, where you said that you have no idea why guys take DHT compounds like Proviron to lower SHBG. Your solution to lower SHBG was just to take more testosterone. If the resulting aromatization raises estrogen too much, then your solution was to take an AI to increase the ratio of androgens to estrogens, and to lower E2 to acceptable levels.

Have you changed your mind on that point?

There is no reason to try and lower the concentration of SHBG in your blood because there is no reason to think having it lower has a positive effect, as I stated above, some science suggests having it high would be better. My solution to lower SHBG has never been to take more testosterone, although I may have suggested that one take testosterone INSTEAD of DHT compounds. And anyone taking test outside of extremely low dose TRT is probably going to need an AI anyhow to keep E2 in check.
 

Stewie

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Somewhere along the lines genetic polymorphism variations of UDP-glucuronosyltransferase plays a pivotal role in the PK excretion rate of testosterone. Amongst a few other thingys.

Red, red wine oh you make my T stay alive.
 

Brock456

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Your TRT doctor is simply required to make you get labs they don't care what they read my test level was 1900 on my last lab dr said it was a toxic level I said I forgot to take a couple days off and took shot right before whatever they dotn care they are simply required to make you get labs

this is actually not true. I know a lot of guys who if their Test levels are too high, their dr will not continue prescribing that dosage or lower it.

and If insurance is covering the TRT, they may not if they see test levels at 2000 or so
 

nothuman

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If you stop everything at the end of your cycle, wait 2-3 weeks, then start back up on TRT, you will be about 200mg/week levels (200mg/week is about double normal TRT).

I go up to 500mg for the last 4 weeks, then drop everything for 3 weeks, then start back up on 10mg/day and I'm at normal levels when I test a couple weeks later.

This would only work for long esters
 

warlock

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This would only work for long esters

That's a good point.

Let's say you are on 200mg test cyp/week and decide to add a dose of 200mg test prop/week for a cruise/cycle, how long before your doctor requests labs would you need to stop the extra 200mg test prop to get back to baseline? How would you go about it? Kaladryn, gotgame, nothuman, or anyone?
 

Fa Seeshus

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That's a good point.

Let's say you are on 200mg test cyp/week and decide to add a dose of 200mg test prop/week for a cruise/cycle, how long before your doctor requests labs would you need to stop the extra 200mg test prop to get back to baseline? How would you go about it? Kaladryn, gotgame, nothuman, or anyone?

I run extra prop or suspension with TRT at around 150mg total a week. I've cut it a week or and been fine. Honestly the easiest way to get the exact levels you need from the doc is to drop the TRT and all long esters a month out and only run prop with daily shots that match the trt dose. If my bloodwork is Friday morning I take the last prop shot wed morning and I score fine. Remember due to ester prop is more potent than cyp, so adjust down accordingly (I would stick with 20mg a day for the last week you run it). If you take before your bloodwork this way there is no crash. You can also run ment acetate with the prop and if at a low dose it won't throw off the bloods. Tren acetate will though, please don't do that, lol.
 

warlock

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I run extra prop or suspension with TRT at around 150mg total a week. I've cut it a week or and been fine. Honestly the easiest way to get the exact levels you need from the doc is to drop the TRT and all long esters a month out and only run prop with daily shots that match the trt dose. If my bloodwork is Friday morning I take the last prop shot wed morning and I score fine. Remember due to ester prop is more potent than cyp, so adjust down accordingly (I would stick with 20mg a day for the last week you run it). If you take before your bloodwork this way there is no crash. You can also run ment acetate with the prop and if at a low dose it won't throw off the bloods. Tren acetate will though, please don't do that, lol.

Thanks for chiming in. Those are really good points.

Instead of dropping the 200mg test cyp (prescribed TRT) a month out and run the test prop until labs are pulled, do you think dropping the test prop 1 week before the labs while still running your normal TRT (test cyp) would be enough to go back to baseline?

On another hand, when you run the trestolone acetate, what dose do you take? Do you run the ment acetate all the way until you get labs? All comes back normal?
 

Fa Seeshus

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Thanks for chiming in. Those are really good points.

Instead of dropping the 200mg test cyp (prescribed TRT) a month out and run the test prop until labs are pulled, do you think dropping the test prop 1 week before the labs while still running your normal TRT (test cyp) would be enough to go back to baseline?

On another hand, when you run the trestolone acetate, what dose do you take? Do you run the ment acetate all the way until you get labs? All comes back normal?

Cyp does build up in your system, so if you are running a higher dose of cyp on cycle I would definitely completely go off of it for a month as others have stated. I have friends who got their bloods done over a month after a heavy test cycle and their T was still very elevated.
 

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