True HRT and blood clots

[maldorf]

I was curious if there was any acedmic work somewhere that would show that physiological replacement dosages of test were safe in relation to blood clot formation. It looks like all of the data say yes. This is as long as it is a true replacement of normal endogenous levels of test and not something out of range, say over 900 or so. OF course the higher the dose the more risk though.

This is of interest to me of course because of my heart attack 2 years ago. All of my docs, including all of my cardiologists, have long given me the ok for HRT. There may be others on here doing doc supervised HRT and wondering how safe from clots they are. As long as you keep it where the docs say, you should be fine. Docs will also keep an eye on your hgb/hct too. They wont really be able to determine your clotting factor risks, but one can assume as long as test levels are kept in the normal range that your risk should be minimal.

IF you read through this short article I have attached youll see the reasons they give for hypercoagulability when using testosterone in doses higher than normal endogenous levels.

**broken link removed**

 

[dragonfire101]

Nothing specifically to clotting I could find, but there are studies it shows it beneficial to healthy cholesterol levels and ratios if your older and just using HRT dosages compared to not using it, which may lower heart disease risk.

I'm sure thats the info you already have though.

 

[maldorf]

Nothing specifically to clotting I could find, but there are studies it shows it beneficial to healthy cholesterol levels and ratios if your older and just using HRT dosages compared to not using it, which may lower heart disease risk.

I'm sure thats the info you already have though.

"Anabolic steroids may also lead to
increased blood clot formation, even when taken only short-term, because they (a) increase the level of clotting
factors (= pro-coagulant factors), (b) decrease levels of the blood clot-dissolving proteins (= fibrinolytic proteins)
that we all have, and (c) make blood platelets more sticky (= lead to increased platelet aggregation) (ref. 4)."

This is the part of the post I was referencing, as far as increased risk of clots. This is most probably what got me.

 

[dragonfire101]

"Anabolic steroids may also lead to
increased blood clot formation, even when taken only short-term, because they (a) increase the level of clotting
factors (= pro-coagulant factors), (b) decrease levels of the blood clot-dissolving proteins (= fibrinolytic proteins)
that we all have, and (c) make blood platelets more sticky (= lead to increased platelet aggregation) (ref. 4)."

This is the part of the post I was referencing, as far as increased risk of clots. This is most probably what got me.

Ya i seen studies that say it increases risk too, but they weren't HRT dosages. PLus you have to take into consideration preexisting issues and other issues like sleep apnea would all increase risk as well. How much were you taking though when that happened. The studies that say its beneficial are only in older men with HRT dosages. In your case it would appear difficult I would think if even HRT would be beneficial dosages in your case since your heart issue.

I'm scared because I have high hematocrit 52-54 all the time taking my HRT dosages 125mg week because of sleep apnea primarily. Imagine if I took high dosages...

 

[railslave]

heres another study that may help answer your question.......**broken link removed**

 

[maldorf]

heres another study that may help answer your question.......**broken link removed**

Thanks, thats a nice study.

 

[maldorf]

Ya i seen studies that say it increases risk too, but they weren't HRT dosages. PLus you have to take into consideration preexisting issues and other issues like sleep apnea would all increase risk as well. How much were you taking though when that happened. The studies that say its beneficial are only in older men with HRT dosages. In your case it would appear difficult I would think if even HRT would be beneficial dosages in your case since your heart issue.

I'm scared because I have high hematocrit 52-54 all the time taking my HRT dosages 125mg week because of sleep apnea primarily. Imagine if I took high dosages...

Yeah, a true HRT doses seem to have a beneficial effect all around as long as the HCT is kept in check. At the time I had just started a cycle of 750 mg/wk and had been cruising on about 350mg/wk test. I also did a single injection of 250 mg deca a few days prior. Cretainly not HRT doses.

Today, the docs all feel like the HRT I am on is beneficial otherwise I would not have gotten the approval of all. I am on coumadin now too, and so that should keep me safe.

 

[cpesloco]

Do you donate blood regularly? If not, I would suggest getting a script from your DR for therapuetic draws.

 

[maldorf]

Do you donate blood regularly? If not, I would suggest getting a script from your DR for therapuetic draws.

Yes, I do. I see a hematologist regularly and have phlebotomies done if needed. I cannot donate since im on coumadin. Ive been trying for 2 years now to make more on here aware of this danger and the message is starting to get around. It something that was not ever mentioned 10 years ago. I knew next to nothing about the issue until mine started measuring high before my heart attack. More guys need to be aware and keep an eye out on this.

The hematocrit/hemoglobin is easy to keep an eye on if you get your CBC done on a regular basis. The coagulability is something harder to keep an eye on. Even doing an INR reading wont really do since so many factors are involved in the clotting process.

 

[Kaladryn]

Yes, I do. I see a hematologist regularly and have phlebotomies done if needed. I cannot donate since im on coumadin. Ive been trying for 2 years now to make more on here aware of this danger and the message is starting to get around. It something that was not ever mentioned 10 years ago. I knew next to nothing about the issue until mine started measuring high before my heart attack. More guys need to be aware and keep an eye out on this.

The hematocrit/hemoglobin is easy to keep an eye on if you get your CBC done on a regular basis. The coagulability is something harder to keep an eye on. Even doing an INR reading wont really do since so many factors are involved in the clotting process.

My doc puts a drop of blood under a microscope and he can tell how much the RBCs are sticking together, it's shown on a computer screen and it's very obvious when it's good, all the cells are seperated and individual, sometimes 1-2 sticking together, when it's bad there are large groups of cells clumping together. I have no idea what this procedure is called.

 

[maldorf]

My doc puts a drop of blood under a microscope and he can tell how much the RBCs are sticking together, it's shown on a computer screen and it's very obvious when it's good, all the cells are seperated and individual, sometimes 1-2 sticking together, when it's bad there are large groups of cells clumping together. I have no idea what this procedure is called.

Platelet aggregation is what that sounds like it is. I wonder why my hematoloigst has never mentioned this to me. I am going to talk to him next week when I go in.

 

[qbkilla]

for people who can not donate to the red cross, what is teh best way to get blood taken for personal health? does insurance cover it? i want to donate blood for my health but i dont want to donate it to someonelse beause i had a cancer scare in the past and still need to keep an eye on my lymph nodes.

 

[maldorf]

for people who can not donate to the red cross, what is teh best way to get blood taken for personal health? does insurance cover it? i want to donate blood for my health but i dont want to donate it to someonelse beause i had a cancer scare in the past and still need to keep an eye on my lymph nodes.

If there is a problem with your blood and it cant be used, then youll have to go to a hematologist and have them draw it. A regular doc might do it, I dont know. First thing you have to do though is find out what your HGB/hematocrit is. If its 53 or more then I would say get a phlebotomy.

 

[dragonfire101]

Ok I spoke with a very knowledgeable BHRT/HRT doc.

He said Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy (BHRT) use Bioidentical hormones that are compounded in the lab to have the same molecular structure as the hormones made by your own body are better than bio-similar or synthetic hormones(testosterone Cypionate /Enathate etc.)

He says he likes his patients using Bioidentical compounded Test Gel because that there is a positive HDL/LDL effect on levels that's why he recommends a compounded gel to be used 2 x a day and twice a day for more steady levels.

With Bio-similar or synthetic hormones(testosterone Cypionate /Enathate etc.) He says that there is a neutral or slightly negative HDL/LDL effect on levels.

He will prescribe synthetic, but does not prefer to, but if so recommends small every day Sub-Q Inj. of test 10-20mg day.

HGH recommendations are 1.2-1.8mg day.

Vit D3 is also a must

 

[wasp]

i donate every 2 months, they tell you your hemoglobin there, times 3 and you have your crit,mine is about 47 normally take a baby asp every morn and 6 grams of fish oil daily, i fill that bag in no time..............

 

[muscle96ss]

Maldorf: Check out a book titled "the textbook of bioidentical hormones" by Edward Lichten. It has some good info not only on testosterone but other hormones as well. Testosterone in normal physiological dosages is actually very heart protective. Your heart muscle has more testosterone receptors than any other muscle; there is a reason for that.

 

[railslave]

Ok I spoke with a very knowledgeable BHRT/HRT doc.

He said Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy (BHRT) use Bioidentical hormones that are compounded in the lab to have the same molecular structure as the hormones made by your own body are better than bio-similar or synthetic hormones(testosterone Cypionate /Enathate etc.)

He says he likes his patients using Bioidentical compounded Test Gel because that there is a positive HDL/LDL effect on levels that's why he recommends a compounded gel to be used 2 x a day and twice a day for more steady levels.

With Bio-similar or synthetic hormones(testosterone Cypionate /Enathate etc.) He says that there is a neutral or slightly negative HDL/LDL effect on levels.

He will prescribe synthetic, but does not prefer to, but if so recommends small every day Sub-Q Inj. of test 10-20mg day.

HGH recommendations are 1.2-1.8mg day.

Vit D3 is also a must

the test sub-q 10-20mg a day sounds interesting. anyone currently doing this?

 

[warrenpeace]

the test sub-q 10-20mg a day sounds interesting. anyone currently doing this?

Along the lines of emeric's recommendation of 50mg EOD. Less estro conversion and I guess other benefits according to that post. Won't get you huge the fastest way possible, but a responsible and health-conscious way of doing AAS I guess.