Wake up! (Dante Trudel)

[traininsane11]

Post from Dante in light of the recent deaths in the industry

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[M@NU]

Post from Dante in light of the recent deaths in the industry

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ive commented on this one.
In my opinion, one immense important factor is completely ignored here and this is bodyweight.
You barely see mens physique or classic physique competitors dropping dead. In most cases these are guys pushing extreme bodyweights and eating immense amount of foods
This paired with high PED use and minimal ancillaries use is the issue in my opinion.

 

[gauge22-v2]

ive commented on this one.
In my opinion, one immense important factor is completely ignored here and this is bodyweight.
You barely see mens physique or classic physique competitors dropping dead. In most cases these are guys pushing extreme bodyweights and eating immense amount of foods
This paired with high PED use and minimal ancillaries use is the issue in my opinion.

Absolutely agree with your comment.

My understanding is that carrying 100+ lbs of extra weight, whether fat or muscle, is extremely hard on your body and reduces longevity.

Also many bodybuilders that have passed on did not live a clean lifestyle. Alcohol/rec drugs combined with additional body mass and steroids/ancillaries are an obvious poor combination.

 

[nothuman]

Post from Dante in light of the recent deaths in the industry

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Spot on

ive commented on this one.
In my opinion, one immense important factor is completely ignored here and this is bodyweight.
You barely see mens physique or classic physique competitors dropping dead. In most cases these are guys pushing extreme bodyweights and eating immense amount of foods
This paired with high PED use and minimal ancillaries use is the issue in my opinion.

Agreed

 

[qbkilla]

ive commented on this one.
In my opinion, one immense important factor is completely ignored here and this is bodyweight.
You barely see mens physique or classic physique competitors dropping dead. In most cases these are guys pushing extreme bodyweights and eating immense amount of foods
This paired with high PED use and minimal ancillaries use is the issue in my opinion.

Agree with this. People just want to scream "it's the roids!"

 

[SAVAGEPMHNP]

Your cardiovascular system does not know a difference between 100 pounds of muscle or 100 pounds of fat. Either way it has to increase it's workload just the same to meet the demands of the extra tissue i.e. causing ventricular enlargement aka heart failure. That combined with uncontrolled BP is a recipe for disaster.

 

[nidnoy]

Absolutely agree with your comment.

My understanding is that carrying 100+ lbs of extra weight, whether fat or muscle, is extremely hard on your body and reduces longevity.

Also many bodybuilders that have passed on did not live a clean lifestyle. Alcohol/rec drugs combined with additional body mass and steroids/ancillaries are an obvious poor combination.

No one wants to admit the last part. Everyone just wants to party and have a good time and not face the facts of what an accelerant rec drugs are. Now just waiting for everyone to say alcohol, weed, shrooms, etc are healthy and have nothing to do with blah, blah, do you have any pubmed studies to back up that being an active user/abuser of rec drugs combined with peds is a bad idea

 

[Shelby]

ive commented on this one.
In my opinion, one immense important factor is completely ignored here and this is bodyweight.
You barely see mens physique or classic physique competitors dropping dead. In most cases these are guys pushing extreme bodyweights and eating immense amount of foods
This paired with high PED use and minimal ancillaries use is the issue in my opinion.

I'd add age, too.
It seems like a lot more are blasting / cruising well into their 40s and beyond now, something that I think was less common in the past. People say "age is just a number" but that's complete horseshit, your body is on a steady march towards entropy pretty much from the get-go.
Personally I decided to completely retire and downsize before I hit my 40s. I now weigh about 50 pounds less (172 the other day) than my usual offseason weight when bodybuilding.
My BP is 100/58, pulse is 50, calcium score zero, etc.
I'll die from something, eventually, but with any luck I've still got a while to go.

 

[M@NU]

I'd add age, too.
It seems like a lot more are blasting / cruising well into their 40s and beyond now, something that I think was less common in the past. People say "age is just a number" but that's complete horseshit, your body is on a steady march towards entropy pretty much from the get-go.
Personally I decided to completely retire and downsize before I hit my 40s. I now weigh about 50 pounds less (172 the other day) than my usual offseason weight when bodybuilding.
My BP is 100/58, pulse is 50, calcium score zero, etc.
I'll die from something, eventually, but with any luck I've still got a while to go.

true. I think from 40 on all you should be on is Test, Primo and hgh/insu optional
and good job with your bp and pulse. I would love to come down to 100/60 but i get dizzy as hell below systolic of 110. Yesterday my BP after eating was 127/69. not "perfect" but i can live with that while being o 700mg test and 500mg primo
i just found it a bit confusing that dante completely focused on the ped part without taking the other stuff into consideration. But if i were known to put on massive weight in myself/clients then i would maybe also "forget" about that part.
And this is not meant offensive, i have nothing but respect for the guy

Your cardiovascular system does not know a difference between 100 pounds of muscle or 100 pounds of fat. Either way it has to increase it's workload just the same to meet the demands of the extra tissue i.e. causing ventricular enlargement aka heart failure. That combined with uncontrolled BP is a recipe for disaster.

as far as i know, 100 pounds of muscle is even more demanding on the body than 100 pounds of fat. muscle is active tissue that needs huge amount of oxygen etc.

 

[gauge22-v2]

No one wants to admit the last part. Everyone just wants to party and have a good time and not face the facts of what an accelerant rec drugs are. Now just waiting for everyone to say alcohol, weed, shrooms, etc are healthy and have nothing to do with blah, blah, do you have any pubmed studies to back up that being an active user/abuser of rec drugs combined with peds is a bad idea

But I need MUH TANINS from the wine!!! It is "healthy".

The wine industry has done an amazing job convincing people that their type of alcohol is healthy. While I loathe the fact people buy into this, it is/was truly exceptional marketing.

 

[lm89]

I'd add age, too.
It seems like a lot more are blasting / cruising well into their 40s and beyond now, something that I think was less common in the past. People say "age is just a number" but that's complete horseshit, your body is on a steady march towards entropy pretty much from the get-go.
Personally I decided to completely retire and downsize before I hit my 40s. I now weigh about 50 pounds less (172 the other day) than my usual offseason weight when bodybuilding.
My BP is 100/58, pulse is 50, calcium score zero, etc.
I'll die from something, eventually, but with any luck I've still got a while to go.

Just curious, are you on any form of hrt or were you able to come off and regain enough function?

 

[Shelby]

Just curious, are you on any form of hrt or were you able to come off and regain enough function?

Just a low dose of testosterone cream (not gel) to keep me at a normal level.

 

[EnhancedFatGrappler]

Personally I decided to completely retire and downsize before I hit my 40s. I now weigh about 50 pounds less (172 the other day) than my usual offseason weight when bodybuilding.

I'm currently going through this, by the end of the year I want to go down to 100 kg, and long term 90 kg (preferably keep the muscle, but obviously that's not how it works, haha).

To be honest, it is quite the struggle to let go. And I'm just a gymrat that loves lifting (and being huge).

 

[maxrep24]

Not to mention the mental health side of it gets harder as you age too. living everyday like you’re in a prison cell inside your head is just as dangerous as some bad blood work

 

[Swifto]

true. I think from 40 on all you should be on is Test, Primo and hgh/insu optional
and good job with your bp and pulse. I would love to come down to 100/60 but i get dizzy as hell below systolic of 110. Yesterday my BP after eating was 127/69. not "perfect" but i can live with that while being o 700mg test and 500mg primo
i just found it a bit confusing that dante completely focused on the ped part without taking the other stuff into consideration. But if i were known to put on massive weight in myself/clients then i would maybe also "forget" about that part.
And this is not meant offensive, i have nothing but respect for the guy



as far as i know, 100 pounds of muscle is even more demanding on the body than 100 pounds of fat. muscle is active tissue that needs huge amount of oxygen etc.

You're excluding the positive benefits of what your cardiovascular system has got to do to get to 100lbs of extra muscle tissue. We know resistance training is good for you.

Anyone can sit on the sofa and eat their way to 100lbs of fat.

 

[flexhead]

I'm always reminded of something I heard many many years ago....there is a reason you don't see many if any 80 year old 300lbs bodybuilders walking around. Weight is weight to a certain degree and as we age no matter who you are it takes its toll on our bodies. I've been north of 250lbs for more than a few decades as a chunky muscle dude as well as beyond jacked. Every year it is getting harder and harder. Every year something is getting injured or old injuries are nagging more and more. I'm very lucky to know more than a few senior old timers on the power-lifting as well as the body building side of things. One thing they all have said you'll reach a point to where you will have to scale back weather you want to or not. Pharmaceuticals can only help and extend us only so much.

 

[totalrecomp]

You're excluding the positive benefits of what your cardiovascular system has got to do to get to 100lbs of extra muscle tissue. We know resistance training is good for you.

Anyone can sit on the sofa and eat their way to 100lbs of fat.

In both cases the weight is a toll if carried indefinitely, and in both cases it's also what was done to get to 300+ that does both the fatty and the jacked in. 100lbs of muscle does not just fall off a creatine and whey protein truck. Which one is more risky? Who the hell knows. Personal choice in both cases and not my place to judge.

Coming from health care it is very frustrating dealing with folks who have NEVER cared for their health a day in their life expecting heaven and earth to be moved to save them, often on others dime, but that is another thread that likely does not belong here.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

true. I think from 40 on all you should be on is Test, Primo and hgh/insu optional
and good job with your bp and pulse. I would love to come down to 100/60 but i get dizzy as hell below systolic of 110. Yesterday my BP after eating was 127/69. not "perfect" but i can live with that while being o 700mg test and 500mg primo
i just found it a bit confusing that dante completely focused on the ped part without taking the other stuff into consideration. But if i were known to put on massive weight in myself/clients then i would maybe also "forget" about that part.
And this is not meant offensive, i have nothing but respect for the guy



as far as i know, 100 pounds of muscle is even more demanding on the body than 100 pounds of fat. muscle is active tissue that needs huge amount of oxygen etc.

God i wish my IG posts would be left off this board. I cringe when people post them over here. Obviously my opinions on being extremely responsible with drugs has never gone well and will never go well over here.

Manu what would you have me to do? There is a fine line between happiness in life and reaching certain goals. I am a bodybuilder. I used to train people to put on a great deal of muscle mass. I repeat: I am a bodybuilder. Thats what makes me happy. You wont see me say "you guys should all quit and become bicyclists for longevity reasons". That aint me.

So here goes....me personally? I do my own thing and have always done my own thing....and i dont give one thought to what anyone else wants me to do. its my happiness. So i am one year from 60. I am 6'1" and 251lbs...and I am going to be a bodybuilder the rest of my days no matter what anyone on this board says, no matter what anyone says is the best path to longevity, no matter what. Thats what makes me happy. So I did exactly what I told everyone what i would do.....when i packed it in being an "enhanced" bodybuilder at 42 years of age (17 years ago or so). I reduced my bodyweight down over the years to what it is now.....I train 5 X a week and do mountain biking the other 2 days. I am never going to stop being a bodybuilder. If that causes me to die at 88 instead of 98 I am ok with that. Its my choice. I am not all in on longevity and just longevity...I am all in on what makes me happy. I can get up any day of the year and clearly see my intercostals.....and striations in my quads....I am not losing any more muscle mass...again dont give a shit what anyone says about bodywieght or otherwise. Its my life. So i did and do what makes me happy. TRT, low dose gh, enclomiphene used pretty much for the last 16 years now (well not enclomiphene all 16 years but you know what i mean)....

So with that said....Im not a longevity guy. I am a muscle mass guy. If anyone wants to listen to my advice to live to 100 years of age, Im not the guy you should follow. if you want to listen to my advice on how to put on muscle mass that is in my opinion the safest ways possible...i quite possibly could be the guy you want to listen to.

My problem with the bodybuilding society that seems to have been lost on that post is all these guys died pre covid, and all these guys have died post covid and all anyone can say to make it right in their mind is "its the vax".....no its not just the vax....a lot of it is the security people have gotten doing astronomical amounts of androgens and gh.....and the influencers online that promote "dont worry nothing will happen to you""youll be fine"....with these insane dosages. Thats my problem. Its not just the vax this was happening pre covid and the vax is another problem on top of the original problem.

People get used to this stuff and think its normal. its not. There arent 100 guiy dying in pro golf or pro tennis or even pro baseball (which has a lot more pro players) from the ages of 26-54 of kidney failure and heart failure and clots. You can make all the excuses you want in your head so you can load up the 6cc's tomorrow with no worry in the world, but it just aint happening.

Bodybuilders are like smokers. They are so freaking addicted they will argue to their blue in the face that their aunts butcher smoked for 60 years and he died at 95 so that proves smoking is A OK. At least call it what it is. Christ. I did long ago....Ill say it again to all you guys. "I was aware of the dangers that could come with me being enhanced. I tried to mitigate all those dangers with supplements and keeping track of my health and not going outside my personal dosage box that i deemed too much for myself. And I did on the way to reach my goals. I did so to the best of my ability. I kept low dose, a lot lower than virtually anyone else I have seen who go up to 300lbs. That was my goal. I made it. I am ok with the consequences with me achieving that goal with the way I did it" Done.

Now these guys who are willing to play Russian Roullette with drugs for a trophy. I personally dont get it. I am a pretty researched student in the history of bodybuilding and I right now off the top of my head cannot come up with a natural bodybuilder i have seen that died an early death. I dont have one that ccomes to me. The majority of bodybuilders in this world are natural. Ive been in a lot of gyms and been around or in the sport for almost 40 years. I cant name a natural guy who died of kidney/clot/heart problems right now....if you gave me a day i might be able to come up with a few names. I can rattle off about 50 guys pre covid and and a slew of guys post covid and a slew of guys on this board who have died young who were enhanced. It is what it is no matter how you want to slice it. Do I think those 50-100 guys would be dead right now if they stayed natural most of their life.....no i tend to doubt it.

So again my problem is with people who blame the vax on everything so they can continue to be a junkie with bbing drugs and my problem is with influencers who love to back up their own confidence with outright statements and the "you go boy!" comments they get with saying you can take 10-25ius of gh no problem with androgens over lengthy amount of time without a rapid enlargement of the heart and other such fallacies. In fact BiggerP73 why dont you tell everyone your personal story of what happened to your heart as soon as you started taking 12-25ius of gh over a years time. Severe LVH and started to go into heart failure did you not? Thats the problem i have.

Even some of you guys on this post...."oh it was recreational drugs"...cmon jesus you think Nasser was doing lines every night? Some were doing rec drugs some werent and so are some of you guys.....

I had a college kid pm me last month and he shows me a 6 drug cycle he is doing (large amounts) and his bloodwork was pitiful. and he wants my advice. This kid was about 205 if that at about 6'2"....and I asked "who the hell told you to do that?".....and he said it was various online influencers told him to do that cycle. This kid didnt compete, This was for spring break and to go to parties at the college he goes to. I told him to get off this and that and stay with this and lower this. he said he couldnt because he was addicted to the look and the compliments he gets are important to him....

So thats my problem with all this. Losing a good many friends over the years...you start wondering ok what is worth it and what isnt? What is the middle ground of happiness. How to be a bodybuilder but not freaking kill yourself.....

And if you guys gleamed any other route of my post that that route...then you are going down the wrong path. I had to answer so many questions this morning of whether i am anti vax whether i am vaccinated ...and on and on and the post wasnt even about that. ( I am anti vax and i am unvaccinated and i could tell some horror stories of people close to me on that front)

You guys can do whatever you want to do....If you want to do 3 grams of test and 6-8 grams total a week for years on end with 20ius of gh go ahead and by my guest. I personally dont think youll be around in 10-15 years but thats your choice to make.

So again choose your path that makes you happy and lets you live in that happiness for hopefully a long time.

 

[hogan87]

Your cardiovascular system does not know a difference between 100 pounds of muscle or 100 pounds of fat. Either way it has to increase it's workload just the same to meet the demands of the extra tissue i.e. causing ventricular enlargement aka heart failure. That combined with uncontrolled BP is a recipe for disaster.

That is 100% false. Fat tissue is no where near as vascular as muscle. There is much less blood flow, less blood volume (especially without gear) compared to muscle. 100# of extra muscle is way more strain on cardiovascular system and health risk than 100# of fat. You can also be 20% + body fat and have great cardio. Just look a the last batch of iron man competitors. One of the biggest indicators of longevity is VO2 max. When you are out of breath walking up stairs or making you newest TikTok video, your vo2 max is low. So YES, it is the roids, WHEN combined with high muscle mass, high bp, poor VO2 max, etc. Gear can be used safer or abused with reckless abandon. But let`s not pretend that gear does not harm lots of people. How many of those 46 people named might be alive if they lived the same life but never touched (or abused) gear? At least a few. I`m all for anyone that wants to blast 5g/wk and 20iu Gh daily, this is Pro muscle, but let`s not be surprised if/when there are negative health impacts or loss of life.

 

[danieltx]

God i wish my IG posts would be left off this board. I cringe when people post them over here. Obviously my opinions on being extremely responsible with drugs has never gone well and will never go well over here.

Manu what would you have me to do? There is a fine line between happiness in life and reaching certain goals. I am a bodybuilder. I used to train people to put on a great deal of muscle mass. I repeat: I am a bodybuilder. Thats what makes me happy. You wont see me say "you guys should all quit and become bicyclists for longevity reasons". That aint me.

So here goes....me personally? I do my own thing and have always done my own thing....and i dont give one thought to what anyone else wants me to do. its my happiness. So i am one year from 60. I am 6'1" and 251lbs...and I am going to be a bodybuilder the rest of my days no matter what anyone on this board says, no matter what anyone says is the best path to longevity, no matter what. Thats what makes me happy. So I did exactly what I told everyone what i would do.....when i packed it in being an "enhanced" bodybuilder at 42 years of age (17 years ago or so). I reduced my bodyweight down over the years to what it is now.....I train 5 X a week and do mountain biking the other 2 days. I am never going to stop being a bodybuilder. If that causes me to die at 88 instead of 98 I am ok with that. Its my choice. I am not all in on longevity and just longevity...I am all in on what makes me happy. I can get up any day of the year and clearly see my intercostals.....and striations in my quads....I am not losing any more muscle mass...again dont give a shit what anyone says about bodywieght or otherwise. Its my life. So i did and do what makes me happy. TRT, low dose gh, enclomiphene used pretty much for the last 16 years now (well not enclomiphene all 16 years but you know what i mean)....

So with that said....Im not a longevity guy. I am a muscle mass guy. If anyone wants to listen to my advice to live to 100 years of age, Im not the guy you should follow. if you want to listen to my advice on how to put on muscle mass that is in my opinion the safest ways possible...i quite possibly could be the guy you want to listen to.

My problem with the bodybuilding society that seems to have been lost on that post is all these guys died pre covid, and all these guys have died post covid and all anyone can say to make it right in their mind is "its the vax".....no its not just the vax....a lot of it is the security people have gotten doing astronomical amounts of androgens and gh.....and the influencers online that promote "dont worry nothing will happen to you""youll be fine"....with these insane dosages. Thats my problem. Its not just the vax this was happening pre covid and the vax is another problem on top of the original problem.

People get used to this stuff and think its normal. its not. There arent 100 guiy dying in pro golf or pro tennis or even pro baseball (which has a lot more pro players) from the ages of 26-54 of kidney failure and heart failure and clots. You can make all the excuses you want in your head so you can load up the 6cc's tomorrow with no worry in the world, but it just aint happening.

Bodybuilders are like smokers. They are so freaking addicted they will argue to their blue in the face that their aunts butcher smoked for 60 years and he died at 95 so that proves smoking is A OK. At least call it what it is. Christ. I did long ago....Ill say it again to all you guys. "I was aware of the dangers that could come with me being enhanced. I tried to mitigate all those dangers with supplements and keeping track of my health and not going outside my personal dosage box that i deemed too much for myself. And I did on the way to reach my goals. I did so to the best of my ability. I kept low dose, a lot lower than virtually anyone else I have seen who go up to 300lbs. That was my goal. I made it. I am ok with the consequences with me achieving that goal with the way I did it" Done.

Now these guys who are willing to play Russian Roullette with drugs for a trophy. I personally dont get it. I am a pretty researched student in the history of bodybuilding and I right now off the top of my head cannot come up with a natural bodybuilder i have seen that died an early death. I dont have one that ccomes to me. The majority of bodybuilders in this world are natural. Ive been in a lot of gyms and been around or in the sport for almost 40 years. I cant name a natural guy who died of kidney/clot/heart problems right now....if you gave me a day i might be able to come up with a few names. I can rattle off about 50 guys pre covid and and a slew of guys post covid and a slew of guys on this board who have died young who were enhanced. It is what it is no matter how you want to slice it. Do I think those 50-100 guys would be dead right now if they stayed natural most of their life.....no i tend to doubt it.

So again my problem is with people who blame the vax on everything so they can continue to be a junkie with bbing drugs and my problem is with influencers who love to back up their own confidence with outright statements and the "you go boy!" comments they get with saying you can take 10-25ius of gh no problem with androgens over lengthy amount of time without a rapid enlargement of the heart and other such fallacies. In fact BiggerP73 why dont you tell everyone your personal story of what happened to your heart as soon as you started taking 12-25ius of gh over a years time. Severe LVH and started to go into heart failure did you not? Thats the problem i have.

Even some of you guys on this post...."oh it was recreational drugs"...cmon jesus you think Nasser was doing lines every night? Some were doing rec drugs some werent and so are some of you guys.....

I had a college kid pm me last month and he shows me a 6 drug cycle he is doing (large amounts) and his bloodwork was pitiful. and he wants my advice. This kid was about 205 if that at about 6'2"....and I asked "who the hell told you to do that?".....and he said it was various online influencers told him to do that cycle. This kid didnt compete, This was for spring break and to go to parties at the college he goes to. I told him to get off this and that and stay with this and lower this. he said he couldnt because he was addicted to the look and the compliments he gets are important to him....

So thats my problem with all this. Losing a good many friends over the years...you start wondering ok what is worth it and what isnt? What is the middle ground of happiness. How to be a bodybuilder but not freaking kill yourself.....

And if you guys gleamed any other route of my post that that route...then you are going down the wrong path. I had to answer so many questions this morning of whether i am anti vax whether i am vaccinated ...and on and on and the post wasnt even about that. ( I am anti vax and i am unvaccinated and i could tell some horror stories of people close to me on that front)

You guys can do whatever you want to do....If you want to do 3 grams of test and 6-8 grams total a week for years on end with 20ius of gh go ahead and by my guest. I personally dont think youll be around in 10-15 years but thats your choice to make.

So again choose your path that makes you happy and lets you live in that happiness for hopefully a long time.

Excellent post that many on this board need to read over and over until they internalize it.

Choosing the serious, hardcore pursuit of this lifestyle requires a serious cost-benefit analysis for the thinking man. It's not just about drugs and high body weight - it's family history, genetics, environmental factors, etc.

Like @DOGGCRAPP, I too will be a bodybuilder for life. It brings me great joy and I view the meaning of life as doing what you enjoy every day because we all know how this end - nothing more and nothing less. I don't have a wife or kids to think about. It's me, my dog, and my bodybuilding.

I try to do it as healthy as possible. I have about 20 healthy supplements I take daily; I take telmisartan and nebivolol; I never take even a 15 minute nap without my CPAP. If @DOGGCRAPP has recommended it I'm using it.

Choose your path wisely and be aware of the long-term consequences because nothing in life is free.