when to shoot hgh in a igf insulin stack

[anabolic_hippie]

i am going to run 40 mcg igf eod (on training days) right after my workout, should i run the hgh on the same days as the igf, and is it best to run it eod or everyday i am lookin to put size on. and i will run insulin as well. i have run hgh and insulin together and i have run igf by itself but this will be the first time running them both, i am running test and tren and a couple things as well. just looking to see whet everyones opinion is on the subject.

 

[Wonderman]

Ive always heard immediately pwo igf 20 minutes later and slin 10 minutes after that.

 

[Big Bapper]

I would shoot your GH in the mornings ED, I like to take all my GH in one go. Then PWO shoot IGF then 20mins later Slin, then nutrition. Try to remember IGF adds to the hypo efect of slin, so mabe cut your slin dose back a little. Till you find you are comfortable.

 

[maxititer]

you can mix humalog and igf in same syringe, and shoot PWO, then GH 2 hours later. It is relatively new protocol, and with some good amount of solid science behind it.

 

[anabolic_hippie]

you can mix humalog and igf in same syringe, and shoot PWO, then GH 2 hours later. It is relatively new protocol, and with some good amount of solid science behind it.

sounds interesting never heard of shooting igf ansulin together or shooting insulin intramuscular you have aNy more info on this

 

[GoneForever]

First shoot HGH, then 20min later shoot your IGF, then 10min later shoot your insulin and immediately have your carbs/protien. For mass I suggest you split your weekly GH into 3. Example lets say you run 6iu's Gh mon-sat. Now you will run your gh at 12iu's Monday,wed an fri followed by a 40mcg IGF shot those 3 days and 10min later 10-12iu's slin followed by a 100-120 sugar drink with whey(maybe 80g whey)

 

[maxititer]

sounds interesting never heard of shooting igf ansulin together or shooting insulin intramuscular you have aNy more info on this

many guys shooting insulin IM, but according some published data it will not make any big difference with
SQ injections, overall metabolic effect also same.

Mixing IGF and insulin is not bad idea, because insulin is a best natural porter for peptides and proteins.

shooting insulin first and GH later make sense because insulin can help to minimize effect of 2 main negative GH's regulators SOCS-2 and GHBP.
Because for insulin need time to reach max concentration about 1.5 hours, then injecting GH 2 hours after insulin will give more
effect from each injected IU.

any one interested to read science articles, here is one very important, available as full article for free, and describes muscle growth
from all point of view.

Modifying muscle mass – the endocrine perspective
**broken link removed**

 

[C--Man]

Ahh..... good old Max!



Oh, yeah being my first post,

hello to all from another Aussie

 

[maxititer]

Ahh..... good old Max!



Oh, yeah being my first post,

hello to all from another Aussie

glad to see, you bro!

 

[dragonfire101]

shooting insulin first and GH later make sense because insulin can help to minimize effect of 2 main negative GH's regulators SOCS-2 and GHBP.
Because for insulin need time to reach max concentration about 1.5 hours, then injecting GH 2 hours after insulin will give more
effect from each injected IU.

Where would Pmgf fall into place if ome wanted to use igf-1,gh, and slin togethr.

pmgf,slin,igf-1 together and 2 hours later GH or will GH have to be use differntly becaus eof the MGF.

 

[maxititer]

PEG- MGF, I would mix in same syringe with IGF1-LR3 and insulin, and inject I/M immediately PWO.

MGF does not compete with IGF1 for the same receptors, so it can be injected same time with IGF1 and best time to inject MGF post workout, b/c at this time our muscles naturally producing MGF.

There is not much relations between GH and MGF. My point of injecting GH 2 hours later is based on fact that GH action on muscle mainly mediated via IGF, and difference between IGF1-LR and own body IGF is that IGF1 LR3 will go directly to receptor and it cannot bind to any thing else, so it is gone from circulation in 10-20 minutes. Own body IGF1 will bind to IGF binding protein (mainly IGFBP3) and that way will remain in circulation for 24 hours minimum. That is called basal body IGF, and even after single 1 IU GH injection basal body IGF will rise significantly.

In case of use of IGF1 LR3 PWO it is really not so important when to inject GH, b/c PWO need in IGF1 already covered.

But injecting GH after insulin make sense because insulin will stimulate release of endogenous GH and this GH will naturally bind to GHBP and SOCS 2 and when we will inject GH 2 hours later, amount of these negative GH regulators will be less.

 

[C--Man]

Max-

I do not want to get involved with Slin,

Then I could take a Hi GI Maltodextrose/whey shake PWO to spike natty slin levels and then wait what? about 20min. to pin the GH?? or 2 hrs because of it getting bound to all the neg. recptors??

Or without any slin, do you think it is better to just pin every night?

Thanks C-man

 

[maxititer]

Max-

I do not want to get involved with Slin,

Then I could take a Hi GI Maltodextrose/whey shake PWO to spike natty slin levels and then wait what? about 20min. to pin the GH?? or 2 hrs because of it getting bound to all the neg. recptors??

Or without any slin, do you think it is better to just pin every night?

Thanks C-man

It is some how different with own body insulin, intake of 50g glucose will bring your basal GH down. So it is not so simple. Also different people may react differently on insulin, need some careful validation of the whole protocol and finally what will be best for you, may not do so well with some one else.

It is just very general considerations, on very far distance from to be of any practical value.

 

[slowpain]

I have a question, when does HGH and IGF spike naturally during your workouts? Isnt that when you would want to take a shot of HGH and IGF? I mean does hgh increase naturally about 20min into your workout or after 60min or what?

 

[maxititer]

Trained athletes have a threefold higher basal GH and IGF-1 , but main factor which secreted during exercise only is spliced variant of insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) Mechano Growth Factor (MGF) also known as IGF-1Ec .

When discovered MGF was called local factor of growth and repair.

Another very important growth factor secreted during exercise is GM-CSF.

All growth factors and AAS mediate their effect on muscle growth by acting on muscle satellite cells, so number of satellite cells presented at that moment in trained muscle will be main limiting factor and detrimental on how trained muscle will respond on stimulation from GH, IGF, MGF. Main source of satellite cells in skeletal muscle are bone marrow. (Chen JC & Goldhamer DJ 2003 Skeletal muscle stem cells. Reproduction Biology of Endocrinology 1 101.)

Muscle cells function as a syncitium, with several nucleated cells fusing to form the muscle fibre – the key cellular activator of this process being the satellite cells.

By using GM-CSF same time with GH, IGF1LR3 and MGf will provide much more satellite cells and result in improved effect from GH and IGF, and any one are looking to improve effectiveness from GH IGF then he need to look in this direction but not in playing with injection sequences and timing.

 

[slowpain]

Trained athletes have a threefold higher basal GH and IGF-1 , but main factor which secreted during exercise only is spliced variant of insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) Mechano Growth Factor (MGF) also known as IGF-1Ec .

When discovered MGF was called local factor of growth and repair.

Another very important growth factor secreted during exercise is GM-CSF.

All growth factors and AAS mediate their effect on muscle growth by acting on muscle satellite cells, so number of satellite cells presented at that moment in trained muscle will be main limiting factor and detrimental on how trained muscle will respond on stimulation from GH, IGF, MGF. Main source of satellite cells in skeletal muscle are bone marrow. (Chen JC & Goldhamer DJ 2003 Skeletal muscle stem cells. Reproduction Biology of Endocrinology 1 101.)

Muscle cells function as a syncitium, with several nucleated cells fusing to form the muscle fibre – the key cellular activator of this process being the satellite cells.

By using GM-CSF same time with GH, IGF1LR3 and MGf will provide much more satellite cells and result in improved effect from GH and IGF, and any one are looking to improve effectiveness from GH IGF then he need to look in this direction but not in playing with injection sequences and timing.

so do they sell injectable GM-CSF yet? So your saying MGF is secreated along with GM-CSF during training but IGF-1 isnt secreted that much? I guess HGH and IGF-1 levels secrete later on in the day?

 

[gridlock]

you can mix humalog and igf in same syringe, and shoot PWO, then GH 2 hours later. It is relatively new protocol, and with some good amount of solid science behind it.

I always did it this way.

Way I understood it is that you need to bang the IGF and Slin in within 20-40 minutes of finishing heavy stress on a muscle group to increase chance of hyperplasia in that local site. Then HGH 1-2 hours later to top up your levels.

I tried this for about 3 months during my last cycle and got some awesome results in comparison to what I got before. I was running T3's aswell.

Hope that helps dude.

 

[Monte Brogan]

PEG- MGF, I would mix in same syringe with IGF1-LR3 and insulin, and inject I/M immediately PWO.

MGF does not compete with IGF1 for the same receptors, so it can be injected same time with IGF1 and best time to inject MGF post workout, b/c at this time our muscles naturally producing MGF.

There is not much relations between GH and MGF. My point of injecting GH 2 hours later is based on fact that GH action on muscle mainly mediated via IGF, and difference between IGF1-LR and own body IGF is that IGF1 LR3 will go directly to receptor and it cannot bind to any thing else, so it is gone from circulation in 10-20 minutes. Own body IGF1 will bind to IGF binding protein (mainly IGFBP3) and that way will remain in circulation for 24 hours minimum. That is called basal body IGF, and even after single 1 IU GH injection basal body IGF will rise significantly.

In case of use of IGF1 LR3 PWO it is really not so important when to inject GH, b/c PWO need in IGF1 already covered.

But injecting GH after insulin make sense because insulin will stimulate release of endogenous GH and this GH will naturally bind to GHBP and SOCS 2 and when we will inject GH 2 hours later, amount of these negative GH regulators will be less.

Max, thanks for sharing these thoughts. In the past, I've read that pMGF should be injected on non-workout days as opposed to the PWO you're recommending. Does it make sense to ever inject on non-workout days?

Thanks,
Monte