High Iron Levels In Blood....what can i do ? Please help

Omega-Red · Oct 5, 2012

Hi Guys,

I have recently after a long time looking, started to get bloodwork ( its very hard to get this in the uk ) and after my initial test everything was fine, but my hematocrit and iron which was 57 and 35% , i immediately gave blood around 9 weeks ago and increased cardio and kept hydrated , about 4 weeks ago i started supplementing with 500mg of ip6. I have currently for the past 16 weeks been running a cruise dosage of 100mg test / 76mg parabolan per week. I have just had another blood test, again everything is fine except my iron and hematocrit which have not budged :-(

I am very upset as both my levels when blasting and cruising have seen no difference in the hemeotology. Knowledgable guys, what can i do? My doctor said my gear is irrelevant and my hematocrit will reduce with my iron since its so high, my diet for the past 8 weeks has just been chicken, whole eggs, rice, oats , salad, evoo and fruits. My doctor advised that after a few blood donations things should move in the right direction, the problem in this country is that you can only give blood every 12 weeks.

My plan was give blood every 12 weeks, increase ip6 to 1000mg a day and add calcium citrate with meals to stop iron binding.

I know DC knows a lot about this, if you read this please chime in, I have done everything to keep healthy and been extremely conservative in my aas usage to find out i have a problem like this is unnerving.

I appreciate all feedback

Bionic Bill · Oct 5, 2012

bump, interested as well!

LB

jack of all · Oct 5, 2012

Your Dr can prescribe a phlembotomy. Basically its a script that allows you to give as much blood as the Dr prescribed. It is also important to be well hydrated when testing blood because being dehydrated will cause crit to be high. I would think Dr would be concerned with crit that high.

Avoid iron rich foods and give blood.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

Stewie · Oct 5, 2012

With each phlebotomy generally we lose 250mg of Iron too 500ml of blood loss. The 35% of Iron Saturation that is present on your labs may be transit as dependent on the time frame from your Phlebotomy to your labs, So if you dumped Say Monday and rechecked your Transferrin levels a few days later it will show up as a False Saturation level %,and or if you had consumed a High Iron meal in conjunction with a Vitamin C enriched meal/Multi Vitamin prior to your labs,This will also show a inaccurate percentage of saturation.

Keep in mind Hepcidin, in which is a master Iron peptide regulator of Iron in the liver becomes suppressed from Exogenous Testosterone, when Hepcidin is suppressed, Iron absorption and Iron binding increases, I would suspect this becomes dose dependent of the amount of suppression of Hepcidin to the amount of Testosterone.

Chelation of Iron with the use of IP6 and incorporating Polyphenols are major inhibitors of iron absorption, Try consuming Dark Chocolate preferably 70% to 90% cacao will inhibit Iron absorption, Coffee or Tea before breakfast will inhibit Iron absorption, or before any meal if you choose.

Calcium inhibits Iron absorption Drink some milk and or Calcium enriched food with your Iron Enriched foods.

Eggs inhibit Iron absorption, a hard boiled egg can inhibit Iron absorption up to 28% accordingly to a few articles I've read.

I see your from the UK?
European descendants seem to have a higher prevalence too Hemochromatosis.

Stewie · Oct 5, 2012

Was you very hydrated when your had your Hemoglobin/Hematocrit checked?
That low of a dose, even with two compounds, your HH shouldn't be that high.

Any possibility of Sleep Apnea?

DOGGCRAPP · Oct 5, 2012

I am in a rush and i dont know what stewie said already so ill just try to add to what i think he said (i had to skim as i have to book out right now for a meeting)

a) Drop Heme iron content greatly
b) green tea inhibits iron absorption (and black tea)

Both aluminum and polyphenols in green tea decoct... [Eur J Nutr. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI
Green tea polyphenols and 1-
Effect of mangrove black tea extra... [Environ Toxicol Pharmacol. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

Omega-Red · Oct 5, 2012

Thanks a lot guys this is really helping out, what annoyed me a bit is my doctor said to me i should worry about my crit ...which i am worried about and with good cause.

Stewie thanks for the info mate its very re-assuring getting info from you guys heres are few answers to your questions:-

1. I was pretty hydrated before my test as i did drink a lot of water the night before which i did pee out during the night, but as soon as i got up i took in 1.5 lts of water.

2. Sleep Apnea....I dont really have that, but i do have very little sleep, im sleeping on average around 4-5 hours max a day.

3. I was very open with my doctor and he told me he believes i have a disorder rather than this being gear related, i am by no means at all saying that i can take 2g of gear tomorrow with no adverse effect. Im just saying hi-dose vs small dose hasnt made a blind bit of difference and ive been low for a good 16 weeks.

Stewie, DC , MD....you guys have seen guys turn around their bloodwork in regards to this, what plan would be the way i should proceed my next few months, im going to try and find a way of giving blood every 2 -3 months i know this is not the best but its better than not giving. is 1000mg of ip6 a suitable dose? should i do more cardio as well or is 30 mins 5-6 days a week enough?

Thanks for this, its been a horrible thing to find out as like i say ive always been so conservative with use and my worst fears comes true lol not good.

anabolic2k · Oct 5, 2012

Just out of interest have you had your Ferritin (storage iron) levels checked along side your iron levels?

I went through a stage a few years ago (a time when i wasnt using any gear and hadnt done so for a while) when my iron and hemo went sky high and my ferritin levels also started to increase at an alarming rate.

Did all the gene tests for Hemochromatosis etc but nothing came back positive.

My ferritin kept going up even though id cut read meat, veg that contains alot of iron amd switched to an iron free multi vit/min (a already drank a ton of green tea and eat 6 whole eggs daily anyway) and in the end had to start phlebotomys once week.

Within 3 weeks my ferritin was back to normal and has never gone out of range since!? very strange

Stewie · Oct 5, 2012

Before I was diagnosed with Sleep Apnea my Hematocrit would climb up to the high 50's, 59 on a few occasion, this was being on my TRT dose of 150 mg. Over the course of a year and a half, I went in once a month for Therapeutic Phlebotomies, un which ended up Tanking My Iron/FE Levels,which subsequently created not only Iron Deficiency Anemia, it also disrupted several hormonal functions i.e Thyroid,Cortisol secretion, Elevated Estradiol levels.

Fast Forward to this last February after being diagnosed with OSA, and doing weekly finger pricks to check my Hemoglobin levels at my Doctors office, in a matter of 3 months my Hemo dropped from 19 to 14.5! Without any phlebotomies, that was in May, I dumped in February, then I dumped basically with 17 vials of blood on my last set of labs, two weeks ago, My HH was 14.2/43%.

Point of all this suggests too me you have the possibility of an underlying problem causing your HH to elevate. Even after being on a cruise for 16 weeks, your Red blood cell death at 120 days, unknowing what your HH during your cycle, it should of lowered quit a bit, without any other causes that would keep your HH up.

Increased cardio did absolutely nothing for me in regards to lowering my HH, Sleep Apnea was more determinant on my O2 levels thus keeping my HH elevated from Hypoxia.

With a Hematocrit at your percentage, as the viscosity is obviously much thicker than say a normal ranges of Crit, my haematologist highly recommended I keep cardio too a minimum.

As far as you doing extra cardio, you can try it, I don't believe I'd push it too hard... IMO

Above all, if after several phlebotomies and your HH is still above range, you have too work diligently with your physician to figure out what's causing the Polycythemia.

Stewie · Oct 5, 2012

anabolic2k said:
Just out of interest have you had your Ferritin (storage iron) levels checked along side your iron levels?

I went through a stage a few years ago (a time when i wasnt using any gear and hadnt done so for a while) when my iron and hemo went sky high and my ferritin levels also started to increase at an alarming rate.

Did all the gene tests for Hemochromatosis etc but nothing came back positive.

My ferritin kept going up even though id cut read meat, veg that contains alot of iron amd switched to an iron free multi vit/min (a already drank a ton of green tea and eat 6 whole eggs daily anyway) and in the end had to start phlebotomys once week.

Within 3 weeks my ferritin was back to normal and has never gone out of range since!? very strange

Elevated Ferritin, outside of Hemochromatosis, is a sign of an Infection, an infection you may not been aware several months earlier.

anabolic2k · Oct 5, 2012

Stewie said:
Elevated Ferritin, outside of Hemochromatosis, is a sign of an Infection, an infection you may not been aware several months earlier.

Yes, my GP and Hemotologist went through all of that with me, infection, arthritis etc, anything that would cause an inflamatory effect/problem but we came up with nothing!?

My ferritin levels climbed to way over a reading of 1000+ in just 4 months and just kept climbing!

Very worrying for a time as a good friend of mine was finally found to have Hemochromotosis which went unfound for so long the excess iron had accumulated in his kidneys and he is currently on the donor register waiting for a donation

maldorf · Oct 5, 2012

Im having this problem now and have been getting a phlebotomy once a month for the past 4 years. My iron levels are finally just now getting down to where my hematologist wants them. He wants the level to be slightly iron deficient and once that happens he says most patients get by with just 1 phlebotomy every 6 months.

Omega-Red · Oct 6, 2012

Thank you so much for this info guys, it really honestly helps me get a perspective on this thing. Stewie that info is invaluable bro, im going to go speak with my doctor and explain this whole situation and want him to accelerate the rate at which i can give blood, like I said, in the UK as far i know and have been told from the donation centre they are not allowed to let me give more than every 12 weeks. If any uk guys know of otherwise please state, however its so weird i bumped into a friend tonight who told me their partner had the EXACT same issue, not a bodybuilder just a regular joe and after changing diet etc with no avail had him give blood every 2 weeks until his levels were down to normal . I still want to make sure I cover all bases and take the supplements recommended, ip6/green tea/ calcium citrate etc..

Stewie my doctor said i should remove my 6 whole eggs and nuts from my diet as it has iron content. does this hold any value.

TeknoViking · Oct 6, 2012

True nutrition has an iron free multi vitamin. Good luck with everything bro!

maldorf · Oct 6, 2012

Omega-Red said:
Thank you so much for this info guys, it really honestly helps me get a perspective on this thing. Stewie that info is invaluable bro, im going to go speak with my doctor and explain this whole situation and want him to accelerate the rate at which i can give blood, like I said, in the UK as far i know and have been told from the donation centre they are not allowed to let me give more than every 12 weeks. If any uk guys know of otherwise please state, however its so weird i bumped into a friend tonight who told me their partner had the EXACT same issue, not a bodybuilder just a regular joe and after changing diet etc with no avail had him give blood every 2 weeks until his levels were down to normal . I still want to make sure I cover all bases and take the supplements recommended, ip6/green tea/ calcium citrate etc..

Stewie my doctor said i should remove my 6 whole eggs and nuts from my diet as it has iron content. does this hold any value.

If you want it done faster have them do it at the hematologists office, they can do it weekly if need be.

Stewie · Oct 6, 2012

Anytime my Friend

Here you go, you can print all this off and present it too your Physician, it's from the Institute Of Iron Disorders

Iron Disorders Institute:: Phlebotomy

Iron Disorders Institute:: Diet

Eggs contain a compound that impairs absorption of iron. Phosphoprotein called phosvitin is a protein with a iron binding capacity that may be responsible for the low bioavailability of iron from eggs. This iron inhibiting characteristic of eggs is called the “egg factor”. The egg factor has been observed in several separate studies. One boiled egg can reduce absorption of iron in a meal by as much as 28%

And about Hepcidin

http://ukpmc.ac.uk/articles/PMC3050108/

We considered the hypothesis that testosterone increases hematocrit by suppressing the master iron regulatory peptide hepcidin, thus resulting in increased bioavailable iron.

Hopefully someone on here from the UK can point you in the right direction, so you can do some routine phlebotomies.

And

Haemochromatosis gene frequency in a control and diabetic Irish population. - Irish Health Repository

Hereditary haemochromatosis is inherited in an autosomal recessive manner. Two major mutations have been identified and the condition is emerging as one of the most common recessive mutations among subjects of Northern European descendants.

BMC Medical Genetics | Full text | HLA-A and -B alleles and haplotypes in hemochromatosis probands with HFE C282Y homozygosity in central Alabama

Hemochromatosis is common among northwestern European peoples and their descendants. This disorder is typically associated with homozygosity for the C282Y mutation of the HFE gene (exon 2, nt 845 G→A) on Ch6p [1]. C282Y lies within an ancestral haplotype which includes the human leukocyte antigen (HLA) haplotype A*03-B*07 [2-5]. The ancestral haplotype is the predominant hemochromatosis-associated haplotype in many northwestern European countries, including Ireland [6], Brittany [2], Denmark [7,8], Sweden [9], and Germany