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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2019, 05:54 AM
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Keto is for burning fat. Being flat is part of thr game. Being flat is ok as long as your not losing muscle. Glycogen is needed in the muscles to be full. Why try to be full in ketosis? Makes no sense. Burn the needed fat in ketosis and stay full on a well balanced diet.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2019, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by IronLion2 View Post
Gluconeogenesis is unavoidable if not already in keto.

Why fucking debate if you just want people to tell you youre right? The fact of the mater carnivore can work IF YOU GET HIGH END protein ONLY, no chicken breast or turkey were talking salmon roe and wild caught tuna, if not youre micronutrient spectrum is garbage. BPak said his food bill would be over 1k a month if he had to pay for most of his carnivore diet.

Go ahead and say all these elite athletes are doing carnivore so it works, fuck for all you know there on 10g of T and synthol.... Almost any diet can work, but the fact of the matter is if you cant get bigger or get leaner with carbs you're not going to have much luck without them.


Nothing to do with this thread but you made me think of some bodybuilders I see on social media who come out with so much crap. You can't believe anything they say half the time. Lot's of them off gear or just on trt and it's beyond obvious they are bullshitting. Well in their heads 600mg test is trt. Plus the blatant seo usage all over but they would never touch the stuff. It's always obvious when some are meant to have gone back on and they literally don't change because they never come off in the first place.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2019, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronLion2 View Post
Gluconeogenesis is unavoidable if not already in keto.

Why fucking debate if you just want people to tell you youre right? The fact of the mater carnivore can work IF YOU GET HIGH END protein ONLY, no chicken breast or turkey were talking salmon roe and wild caught tuna, if not youre micronutrient spectrum is garbage. BPak said his food bill would be over 1k a month if he had to pay for most of his carnivore diet.

Go ahead and say all these elite athletes are doing carnivore so it works, fuck for all you know there on 10g of T and synthol.... Almost any diet can work, but the fact of the matter is if you cant get bigger or get leaner with carbs you're not going to have much luck without them.
Check NYMuscle's thread. He posts plenty of proof gluconeogenesis isnt an issue
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2019, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smack View Post
Check NYMuscle's thread. He posts plenty of proof gluconeogenesis isnt an issue

The guy who said DNP gave him cancer?

Your body HAS to have a minimal amount of glucose to fuel aerobic respiration, without you go into KA. The only way around this is being keto adapted.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2019, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by IronLion2 View Post
The guy who said DNP gave him cancer?

Your body HAS to have a minimal amount of glucose to fuel aerobic respiration, without you go into KA. The only way around this is being keto adapted.
Lol what? No I dont think he ever said that nor has cancer.

My bad, I didn't see the part about keto adapted
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2019, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by IronLion2 View Post
the fact of the matter is if you cant get bigger or get leaner with carbs you're not going to have much luck without them.
I do not agree with this fact.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2019, 06:32 PM
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Forget about this diet.

Follow a 40% protein/40% Carbs/20% Fat Diet year round.

This is the ultimate macro to shoot for.

If you get fat, Up Cardio but stay on this macro.

Do not lower calories or carbs.

40% protein/40% Carb/20% Fat is the best macro period.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2019, 11:23 PM
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Thanks for comments 11111. Like 11111 saids, minerals are important, like 1 to 1.5 teaspoon salt per day, I take in 25 lightly salted almonds a day plus an avacado, both provide lots of good fats plus potassium, magnesium, and salt, and use keto salts in water pre-workout. Frozen cooked Spinach is good with a flank steak for lots of minerals too.

The 25mg of mk677 daily in the morning used 7 months of the year with 5 months off keeps my igf-1 at average of 327 ng/ml, up from baseline of 227 ng/ml, a 100 point increase even 6 months in, brings me into the high range for an 18 year old, and I'm age 49. Helps with fullness, but there is zero to minimal bloat when using it on a keto diet. Especially helpful with recuperation from workouts and around a 20% increase in strength over time. Has brain nootropic effects as well.

Been on a keto diet for years, utilized it with fasting (eating only 8 hours of the day) and cardio during the fast to get down from 15% to 12% body fat while holding muscle and even making strength gains during the deficit. I think the body can use bodyfat for extra calories during the deficit to help build additional muscle so long as your protein is high.

Take in 240g of protein a day, gluconeogenesis is 5g max per hour, or around 60g protein turnover into glucose during the day with the fast, which helps with keeping muscles full, glyogen replinishment, muscle recovery, etc. The Palumbo keto diet is 1 to 1.5 grams of protein and 0.5grams of fat per lb of bodyweight for bodybuilders. Laid out a typical day on the diet on page 1 of the "primobolan files" thread.

Never felt or looked better, go to the waterpark all summer long every year with pass and get compliments. You don't need carbs to gain muscle:

https://perfectketo.com/keto-bodybuilding/

Studies have also shown that the low-carb, high-fat ketogenic diet has muscle sparing effects. That means — once you’re fully fat-adapted— your body will prevent itself from breaking down muscle even as you’re burning through fat.

Good book: "The Keto Reset Diet: Reboot Your Metabolism in 21 Days and Burn Fat Forever" Hardcover – October 3, 2017 by Mark Sisson, and also check out the ketogains website started by the bodybuilder Luis Villasenor (from South America) he has been keto for 17 years, and he looks amazing.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2019, 11:55 PM
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How to Build Muscle on the Ketogenic Diet: An Interview with Luis Villaseñor of Ketogains

Can you build muscle mass on a ketogenic diet? Luis Villaseñor’s results speak for themselves.

https://medium.com/better-humans/how...s-33ff65155740

hxxps://medium.com/better-humans/how-to-build-muscle-on-the-ketogenic-diet-an-interview-with-luis-villase%C3%B1or-of-ketogains-33ff65155740
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2019, 02:57 AM
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There is nothing science based about carnivore. If you want the best bloodwork possible, you should eat a mix of all three macronutrients, with protein content being far more important than however many carbs and fats you’re eating. Daily caloric intake (ideally in at least 4 protein feedings) is the most science based way to eat, despite what anyone else might say.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2019, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beti ona View Post
I do not agree with this fact.
That's because its a subjective opinion
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2019, 11:20 PM
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The diet works very well year-round for insulin-resistant individuals, women, and people over 35 years of age, just like Luis mentions.

Notice that Luis also utilized 16 hour periods of fasting with a period of running in there just like myself for rapidly loosing fat while holding onto all your muscle, even making gains in the weight room, my workout diary has it all documented.

I was not a fat kid like bodybuilder Luis Villasenor as a kid, teenager, or young adult, just the opposite, high muscular mesomorph with low 10% bodyfat....but after age 40, things started to change, even though my insulin and A1C are completely normal, I started to notice I was becoming insulin resistant, and had to make changes permanently. Luis at 10% bodyfat is 180, I am 12% bodyfat at 210 on the keto diet and loving it.

You would be amazed at how well the mk677 works with a keto diet. The increased adrenaline and nor-adrenaline daily from being on the diet is great for my morning workouts as well. Sleep was already great, but became even better on the keto diet. Strength in the gym is just as good or better as when I was carb dependent.

Easy to read slide show from bodybuilder Luis: https://thelowcarbuniverse.com/wp-co...verse-2018.pdf
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2019, 12:20 AM
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One last comment, since I get these questions frequently:

1. I get lethargy with mk677, is there anything I can do?

2. I get hunger pains on mk677, will they ever go away?

3. I bloat on mk677, what can I do?

4. Is there a pump with mk677?

5. Can I lose fat with mk677?
-------------------------------
answers:

1. I don't get any tiredness or lethargy with mk677 at all, but I have read some do. In that case, switch to peptide shots x 3 times a day for the same igf-1 and gh increases that mk677 will give you, both give an average 100 point increase in igf-1. You could also use nothing at all, or use around 4 iu + of good Chinese pharm grade HGH. You could even take mk677 for a period of 7 months, then switch to HGH to save money for 5 months, back and forth, etc.

2. Yes, the hunger pains are strong for the 1st 4 weeks, but then die down to normal after that.

3. If you are carb dependent, there is some bloating on mk677, some say it goes away after 1 month, but if you are on a keto diet year round, I have noticed zero to extremely minimal bloating, yet the fullness in your muscles is enhanced.

4. MK677 gives a good pump, but especially when combined with 1500mg of arachidonic acid used pre-workout on workout days only (this way you don't have to cycle it). Soreness is extended for long periods with the arachidonic acid, often for 2 days, and the pumps are quite intense (similar to a 20mg anavar pump)...ergo-log studies have shown a 3.25lb lean muscle increase with arachidonic acid as compared to 0.2lb for placebo over 8 weeks.

5. Studies on adults have shown very little fat loss with mk677 as compared to HGH, however, mk677 does have increased nitrogen retention in place of this drawback. I have noticed that if you are on a keto diet, and insulin levels are low, then the mk677 does add very good fat burning properties. Since it is bringing myself into the high range of GH and igf-1 for an 18 year old, you can only imagine the benefits for fat burning and increased strength & muscle over time.

Peptides:
-----------
Alpha6164's (medical doctor's best friend):
167 igf1---->272 igf1 (100mcg grf(1-29) + 100mcg ghrp2 x 3 times a day) = 105 point increase

MK677:
---------
Self:
227 igf-1---->372 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 145 points for 1st two weeks
Self:
227 igf-1---->327 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 100 points after the 1st couple weeks, read same at 6 months in.
self:
227 igf1---->380 igf1 (4iu chinese generic pharm grade) = 153 point jump

Therefore, 25mg of mk677 used in the am, is the equivalent of 3.4iu of pharm grade HGH from China for me as I get a 95 point increae per each 1iu of HGH.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2019, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tregar View Post
One last comment, since I get these questions frequently:

1. I get lethargy with mk677, is there anything I can do?

2. I get hunger pains on mk677, will they ever go away?

3. I bloat on mk677, what can I do?

4. Is there a pump with mk677?

5. Can I lose fat with mk677?
-------------------------------
answers:

1. I don't get any tiredness or lethargy with mk677 at all, but I have read some do. In that case, switch to peptide shots x 3 times a day for the same igf-1 and gh increases that mk677 will give you, both give an average 100 point increase in igf-1. You could also use nothing at all, or use around 4 iu + of good Chinese pharm grade HGH. You could even take mk677 for a period of 7 months, then switch to HGH to save money for 5 months, back and forth, etc.

2. Yes, the hunger pains are strong for the 1st 4 weeks, but then die down to normal after that.

3. If you are carb dependent, there is some bloating on mk677, some say it goes away after 1 month, but if you are on a keto diet year round, I have noticed zero to extremely minimal bloating, yet the fullness in your muscles is enhanced.

4. MK677 gives a good pump, but especially when combined with 1500mg of arachidonic acid used pre-workout on workout days only (this way you don't have to cycle it). Soreness is extended for long periods with the arachidonic acid, often for 2 days, and the pumps are quite intense (similar to a 20mg anavar pump)...ergo-log studies have shown a 3.25lb lean muscle increase with arachidonic acid as compared to 0.2lb for placebo over 8 weeks.

5. Studies on adults have shown very little fat loss with mk677 as compared to HGH, however, mk677 does have increased nitrogen retention in place of this drawback. I have noticed that if you are on a keto diet, and insulin levels are low, then the mk677 does add very good fat burning properties. Since it is bringing myself into the high range of GH and igf-1 for an 18 year old, you can only imagine the benefits for fat burning and increased strength & muscle over time.

Peptides:
-----------
Alpha6164's (medical doctor's best friend):
167 igf1---->272 igf1 (100mcg grf(1-29) + 100mcg ghrp2 x 3 times a day) = 105 point increase

MK677:
---------
Self:
227 igf-1---->372 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 145 points for 1st two weeks
Self:
227 igf-1---->327 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 100 points after the 1st couple weeks, read same at 6 months in.
self:
227 igf1---->380 igf1 (4iu chinese generic pharm grade) = 153 point jump

Therefore, 25mg of mk677 used in the am, is the equivalent of 3.4iu of pharm grade HGH from China for me as I get a 95 point increae per each 1iu of HGH.
1. I got so tired, I couldn't function. It was beyond bad for me. I don't get that from GH at all.

2. It was just not hunger pains I normally feel, I felt like I had a hole in my stomach.

3. Lots of people do not do KETO or at least all year.

4. Personally I rather do slin instead of MK 677 for pumps. Also when I add key nutrients to my Pre workout drinks, my recuperation factor doubles. I can work out longer and heavier with not near as much soreness.

5. IMO, MK-677 does not come close to GH for fat loss. I compared both and dumped the MK-677. I didn't see any benefits like others claim. I was so tired, I couldn't function during the day and a bloated mess. Not to mention how many times a day, MK-677 spikes blood sugars, No Diabetic should touch this product. It double insulin use in subjects. My roommate tried it and had to stop due to that. GH doesn't take a whole year to get you fat loss. I get effects right away within a few weeks. Did I mention how much it spiked my BP too? Good GH does not do that.



I have taken both and IMO, MK-677 does not compare to GH. Generic GH can also be bought around same price too if you take about 3 IUs a day. To me, GH wins hands down.
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Last edited by pesty4077; 05-27-2019 at 04:12 AM.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2019, 12:50 AM
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I have both HGH kits (pharm grade HGH from china) and Mk677 (super cheap direct from china), and get great results from either one, as a good responder to mk677. I wish I understood why so many people get lethargy from mk677.

Highly recommend getting a RENPHO electronic bodyfat scale that tracks body fat down to the 0.1% (1/10th of a percent), tracks 7 other body readings and sends them all to your phone, over 7,000 reviews on-line. I used this scale to help me keep on diet and adjust diet, cardio, or fasting when necessary to keep making fat losses.

As mentioned above, the keto diet is great for those who have become insulin-resistant, women, people over age 35.

I had my insulin levels checked and A1C after using mk677 for 7 months straight, and they were completely normal, and this was without taking +r-ala or berberine during that time, just normal keto diet.

3iu of HGH would only bring my levels to 285, which is barely above my baseline of 227, I require 4iu of HGH personally to make a difference, since it raises igf-1 to 380.

MK677 really does keep my feeling and lifting like an 18 year old in the gym, absolutely love the stuff, but it's not for those who get tired from it, absolutely agree.

Insulin and A1C after 7 months of mk677 at 25mg every morning:
IGF-1 levels after 1 month of mk677 this year.
Name:  mk677 insulin.jpg
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Last edited by tregar; 05-28-2019 at 01:04 AM.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2019, 01:12 AM
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Averaged 0.2% percent fat loss per 1 days continuous while on mk677 for months when I went down from 18% to 15% body fat. The fat loss was rapid with mk677 + fasting 16 hours a day (like Luis as well) + 15 minutes of running on non-workout days in the park during the fast, this was while on the keto diet with 240g of protein a day. The 65 gram met-rx shake I had in water with 1 tablespoon of no-carb whipping cream at 2:30 pm (last meal of day) would keep releasing protein well into the night time hours (7 hour release), and the mk677 provides great nitrogen retention as studies have shown, helping me to hold on to the protein nitrogen well into the wee hours of the fast.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2019, 02:29 AM
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Sorry about the typos, meant to say 15% down to 12% bodyfat currently.

p.s. the name of the pharm grade HGH from China is Supertropin, very pure. That's the one that gave me 380 igf-1 at 4iu after just 2 days, 153 point increase. The mk677 took igf-1 to 372 during the 1st two weeks, then levels out to 327 igf-1 after that due to the feedback system the body puts into place to regulate the levels to no higher than around the high level of an 18 year old.

Last edited by tregar; 05-28-2019 at 02:41 AM.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2019, 03:05 AM
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I am rushing out but a few points I want to mention after reading the last few posts. As we all know we respond differently to various drugs/supps. I also get great results from MK-677 but can't run it due to the extreme fatigue.

HGH is active for longer than people think but you still get a relatively quick spike and it falls down over the subsequent hours. I get extremely tired from HGH as well. However MK-677 amplifies all your natural pulses and there could be approx 12 for some people in the day. So it's active all day long and why I feel it can cause more tiredness in some. There is more to it than that but many don't inject a small dose of hgh multiple times daily and may just stick to 1-2 injs. It's also a powerful ghrelin receptor agonist which is a factor in various things as well.

On the subject of arachidonic acid I have been meaning to start my own thread on it. I have heard many get nothing from it if natural levels are high and that all comes down to the same thing we constantly go on about... personal response. However I experimented with it again fairly recently and that stuff is no joke. I couldn't believe how strong it felt. The pumps were like 50mg+ of adrol for me. My whole body pumped up. I started with 1000mg pre workout and moved up to 1500mg. As a result I feel no one can really go on about MK pumps if you used them together unless you used MK first for many week/months. Apart from when prohormones and designer steroids were legal it's probably the strongest legal supp I have used with creatine monohydrate/hcl. I had to stop it because it made me break out in acne horribly. I was getting boils on my head and face so I stopped and within a short time I was acne free.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2019, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by pesty4077 View Post
1. I got so tired, I couldn't function. It was beyond bad for me. I don't get that from GH at all.

2. It was just not hunger pains I normally feel, I felt like I had a hole in my stomach.

3. Lots of people do not do KETO or at least all year.

4. Personally I rather do slin instead of MK 677 for pumps. Also when I add key nutrients to my Pre workout drinks, my recuperation factor doubles. I can work out longer and heavier with not near as much soreness.

5. IMO, MK-677 does not come close to GH for fat loss. I compared both and dumped the MK-677. I didn't see any benefits like others claim. I was so tired, I couldn't function during the day and a bloated mess. Not to mention how many times a day, MK-677 spikes blood sugars, No Diabetic should touch this product. It double insulin use in subjects. My roommate tried it and had to stop due to that. GH doesn't take a whole year to get you fat loss. I get effects right away within a few weeks. Did I mention how much it spiked my BP too? Good GH does not do that.



I have taken both and IMO, MK-677 does not compare to GH. Generic GH can also be bought around same price too if you take about 3 IUs a day. To me, GH wins hands down.
I feel like taking a nap any moment of the day as well on MK-677. It's marvelous for muscle fulness though so I endure it but it certainly is no fun.
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Old 05-28-2019, 08:25 AM
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MK-677 good drug for putting on size, horrible for burning fat. Real GH is a better "all around" drug!
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