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is bulking a waste of time being natural?

that is true,ill need more juice than others to see the same results later on during the road because i started earlier but you stated correctly, i do the juice before i reached my natural limit solely for the short cut. id rather have the body i want now in my prime young 20's, then later on in life when i am most likely married and done going out/partying. makes life 500% better for me, especially in my prime years. we all have our reasons , and this is my reason... lol
 
. and if you just jab some test/tren, you can half ass diet and gain more muscle mass in 1 month than you will in a year of natural perfect diet and training.

thoughts?

thoughts?
one of the more foolish things i have read in a while
 
KKV, you have a long way to go and a lot that could be gained on just eating and normal supplementation. You also need to think about possible injuries from adding strength. I read that you are waiting to juice until you get a stable income, I am assuming that is for the gear but remember to do it "right" you will also need to have panels done at the docs office. Take your time sir and think this through
 
the large majority of gym goers go because they want more muscle.

From the 100's of guys in my gym, most train pretty light and are just looking for some abs for the beach and a healthier life.
 
if you just jab some test/tren, you can half ass diet and gain more muscle mass in 1 month than you will in a year of natural perfect diet and training. what is the point of being natural..? even if you lift weights recreationally and never plan on setting foot on a bbing stage, theres no point in staying natural and gaining at a snails pace

Not a good staring point for your usage.

since when do higher test levels compromise longevity?

The list of possible health related side effects from supraphysiological test levels is long enough to compromise longevity. And going into this game with the mindset that you appear to have will only aide you in causing damage to your body.


once i go on, i don't ever plan on coming off thats for sure.

I hope you came to that conclusion after fully understanding the likely and the possible consequences of such a decision but after reading your comments I'm guessing not.
 
Natural bulking is not a waste of time but your nutrition has to be spot on. Guys on gear can get a bit more sloppy with their diet because of the assistance they get from the drugs. A natural person needs to be very meticulous with their diet and training. Don't get too fat when trying to bulk. There is a difference between bulking and putting on some quality muscle vs bulking and getting fat.
 
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This is a bodybuilding/steroid forum. Honestly, what kind of response do you expect to get?

Or are you just looking for validation so you can cycle?

Exactly. Most of us are of the opinion that being natural, period, is a waste of time. Lol.

But to be more serious, anyone can add muscle with a solid diet, youth and good training habits. Where anabolics really shine, Imo, are when you are cutting a lot of fat and want to hold onto muscle. Dieting hard, when natural, is devastating on muscle. AAS let you cut/recomp with relative ease and keep the muscle. The hardest part of a great physique is the balance of size and low body fat. Many can't achieve this. Anyone can bulk up and look like a pile of shit. But being big while still ripped and lean is an achievement.
 
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I have a different perspective.:lightbulb:

I'm 30 years old now, and I've trained naturally for over 12 years now. I began lifting at age 17, and through my years of arduous progress, I've learned a LOT. I've learned the ins and outs of what works for my body... with regards to meals, supplements, sleep, training, etc.

When you're natural, no gains come easily... and it is normal to get frustrated. I often looked at the huge guys in my gym, and wondered how I could get to be their size (I was ignorant about steroids for a long time.) However, this caused me to passionately pursue every natural avenue that I had available to me.

I've studied nutrition books, and tried to come up with healthy meal plans that would add lean mass. I've studied supplements, and tried to buy all the best ones that I thought might have a slight positive effect. I've spent countless hours studying training methods, and learning the ins and outs of every exercise, and thinking about how to optimize my workout routines.

These are the only tools available to a natural bodybuilder, so he has to spend time learning about them. I've been very ignorant about steroids until recently. I view them as the "final tool" to learn about, and master.

I'm very well in-tune with my body now, to the point that i know that if I miss a meal, or get a few less hours of sleep, my workout will suffer by X%. I know that if I get lazy and skip a meal here or there, my weight will start to go down.... or if I get lazy and eat a cheat meal, I will look a little worse in the mirror.

I know the right amount of sets to do in the gym in order to make progress, and I know how much I can do before I start to over train.

Here's the thing: When you're natural, your body forces you to do everything OPTIMALLY to keep making gains. You might look at this negatively, but I actually think it's a positive. When you're forced to do everything optimally, and gains still come slow, it forces you to appreciate discipline and correctness.

These things are only learned through experience, and in my opinion, the lessons are better taught if you're natural.

You need to learn to EAT optimally. You need to eat every 2-3 hours, with high protein, healthy, balanced, nutritious meals. You cannot eat junk, and you cannot skip meals.

You need to learn to train optimally. Every little thing you do in the gym matters. Your form matters, your intensity matters, your volume and frequency matter, and the exercises you select matter. You need to try to master all the basic exercises, and put together a training plan to maximize your gains.

You need to learn to rest optimally.

You need to learn to use supplements optimally. I fully believe in the value of supplements. It kind of surprises me that so many guys here eschew supplements, or think they are worthless. In my experience, they have helped alot. If you're natural, and at a sticking point, and you suddenly add a useful supplement, you will quickly realize its benefit.
My favorites are:
-Creapure Creatine
-BCAA powder
-L-Leucine powder with meals
-Fish Oil
-High quality protein and carb powders post-workout

I've gone from 6 feet 140lbs, to 6 feet 275lbs from age 18 to 30. Now, I'm not the "Incredible Hulk", but I'm a well balanced lifter with developed muscle groups.

I'm 6 ft, 275lbs now, and I'm at the point where nothing I do will really make me any bigger or stronger.... without adding a lot of flab. At this point, I truly believe adding steroids would make sense.

I believe I'd be much lazier, and I wouldn't have half the knowledge if I had just started juicing immediately at 18.


Here's an example. I was surprised recently, when I was watching a Jay Cutler training video. It surprised me, when a seasoned professional like Jay Cutler, only recently figured out that barbell squatting was a better way to train legs than squatting in a Smith Machine. He talked about this at length in a recent video. But the thing is.... for a guy like him who started juicing heavily on day 1... he never had to learn lessons like that. His legs ALWAYS grew from anything he did. He probably never had to really struggle to make progress on his legs. Only now, that he is at the peak of his career, is he struggling to find ways to make new leg gains. (I figured out a long time ago that barbell squatting was much better for leg growth than Smith squats.)
 
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Having said all that, I can't comment on how it feels to be highly juiced-up.

I have had many friends over the years try steroid cycles (sometimes fairly large cycles), and still never come close to matching me in size or strength. So, I know steroids aren't a magic pill.... when you have a guy with lazy eating/training/sleeping habits. A 12 week cycle of drugs isn't going to overcome someone's lazy training style, a lack of high-quality calories, and their lack of diligence and a work ethic over the last decade.


I'd still recommend that anyone get a solid base of training, learn the ins and outs of their body, and gain basic knowledge of exercise and nutrition before using any kind of anabolic aids.
 
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But to be more serious, anyone can add muscle with a solid diet, youth and good training habits. Where anabolics really shine, Imo, are when you are cutting a lot of fat and want to hold onto muscle. Dieting hard, when natural, is devastating on muscle. AAS let you cut/recomp with relative ease and keep the muscle. The hardest part of a great physique is the balance of size and low body fat. Many can't achieve this. Anyone can bulk up and look like a pile of shit. But being big while still ripped and lean is an achievement.

True. It's disheartening to be natural and try to diet down to low body-fat. I always lost a ton of muscle whenever I did this, and ended up not really looking much better.


I think if you're natural.. don't try to look like a competitive bodybuilder or cover-model. Keep a reasonable level of body fat, and focus on getting as big and as strong as you can possibly get (without becoming a lard-ass).
 
wait, is this you?
if so, you do not look like you hit the gym for even 6 months. how could you be at this decision so fast?
you have 50 pounds to gain before you consider anything


Trained 2.5 years. Went from 140 to 204 too fat at 204 so back down to 175. At 179 now. I don't see mysel going anywhere near my goals without using steroids.
 
Trained 2.5 years. Went from 140 to 204 too fat at 204 so back down to 175. At 179 now. I don't see mysel going anywhere near my goals without using steroids.

What do you squat? Deadlift? Bench? How many weighted pull-ups can you do? No disrespect intended but I've seen 14 year old kids that look more developed than you.

If you have been training 2.5 years and still look like that, there's no need to use steroids because even if you do pack on some muscle while on cycle, you'll never keep it because you obviously don't know how to eat and train effectively. Just being honest.
 
Bench 200x4
Squat 250x5
Deadlift 405x5

Dipped bw+50x9
Chin-ups bw+32.5x9

No athletic background whatsoever
 
You should always maximize your natural potential bf you ever think about touching the gear. Hire a nutritionist and take your potential to the fullest then when you decided to get with the program you know you have reached your maximum potential bf you took the next step. I wish someone would have pushed this advice on me bf I ever started taking anything. Everyone wants a easy way out does that mean it is the best method????NO!!! And also when you take the plunge your nutrition needs to be even better to truly get the fullest amount of benefits out of gear.

I know most of us are getting on the bicycle way to soon, but waiting until your maxed out natural is equally "stupid".

That would take +10 years of hardcore, die hard-training and diet. Not saying its bad, but if you want to have a chance of "making it", you gotta jump on the wagon earlier.
 
Bench 200x4
Squat 250x5
Deadlift 405x5

Dipped bw+50x9
Chin-ups bw+32.5x9

No athletic background whatsoever

Gear can wait, you need to keep training naturally.
 

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