My Pharma Grade HGH thoughts

[onixxx]

Don't really care to get into this but if you think Phil heath, Kai green, Dennis wolf, dexter jackson, Shawn Rhoden are using generics, then you are just plain stupid.

There is a reason they dont.

Says Mr mean green is the best.



But yes there's a reason they use it. It's always real.
Always.
You simply can't trust generics usually.
They build a name then slowly go bad.

One brand I've used was tested at 17.5iu soma.
Then once brand got everyone buying, Igf tests starting looking accurately dosed. Next is lower dose

 

[nothuman]

I didn't say anything is wrong with them, im not gonna fork out that kind of money for pharma gh. Don't need to? Mg were the last gh I used period and that's been months and months ago, I don't use anything other than peptides right now. But back to the topic at hand, there is a reason that the top bodybuilders in the world all take pharma GH.

I really don't think the placings at the top would be any different if the guys you mentioned switched from pharm grade to grey tops

 

[MisterB]

there should be little or no difference between pharma and a Generic when the generic has a GMP process in place, we know the chinese own a patent on the process that allows for the extraction of HGH from E Coli (protein secretion technology via GeneScience Pharmaceuticals) , and in the situations where its done within a GMP facility its exactly the same and pharma except the price. give me greytops all day for the money

 

[dannyd]

I really don't think the placings at the top would be any different if the guys you mentioned switched from pharm grade to grey tops

if they all switched probably not, you keep the playing field level...switch half of them and keep the others on humatrope...would love to see that game play out.

 

[NEMSZ]

I didn't say anything is wrong with them, im not gonna fork out that kind of money for pharma gh. Don't need to? Mg were the last gh I used period and that's been months and months ago, I don't use anything other than peptides right now. But back to the topic at hand, there is a reason that the top bodybuilders in the world all take pharma GH.

Again, you're talking about the top 5 at the Olympia. I think it's safe to say those guys aren't struggling for money... So the fact that they use it is only because money is no issue.

if they all switched probably not, you keep the playing field level...switch half of them and keep the others on humatrope...would love to see that game play out.

I highly doubt it would make any difference...

Phil would probably still win... Kai would still not come in "Arnold Classic Condition" and the rest (Dex, Wolf, Rhoden, Branch, Ramy) would all be fighting for 3rd-7th...

 

[johnjuanb1]

B-BOY is right!

If the 3 dimensional structure of the 191aa HGH is not folded perfectly it can lead to destruction of the bodies ability to use HGH permanently, even HGH produced in the body.
Even though the generic appears to be working, it can lead to permanent damage of the bodies' ability to use synthetic of pituitary made HGH.

Generic HGH is not the same as pharma grade HGH.

~ Cautions and Potential Problems with So-Called Generic and Compounded Human Growth Hormone (HGH)

"Purification and handling of proteins produced in cell cultures can too easily produce variations in folding, unfolding, cross-linkages, and variable aggregates of multiple proteins hooked together as dimers and polymers. These can cause immune responses and allergy to HGH, even endogenously produced HGH. Extraction and purification are very complex. Minuscule residues from the cell culture are inevitable and vary from product to product. It is relatively easy to get hormone activity, but extensive human testing is required for to prove safety for any new FOPP, including so-called "generic" HGH."

"To be completely safe, dimers, polymers, aggregates, improper folding, glycosylation, broken cross-linkages, pyrogens, and contaminants must be strictly controlled during manufacture and packaging. This molecule is fragile and the freeze drying and packaging process can further alter its structure. Such abnormalities may not block hormone activity, and the product may seem to work quite well in many cases, but the altered molecules may stimulate immune reactions and cause allergy and desensitization to HGH, with subsequent and permanent decrease in hormone response. Such autoimmunity has been reported with as little as one percent of the injected HGH in an altered form, causing the body to neutralize internally produced as well as injected HGH."

 

[NEMSZ]

JJB1; that's interesting stuff, I've never ever heard of that happening though. I've always either heard of real or fake/no GH generics..

Are you saying that it can appear a GH is working although it is not folded/processed correctly? Or is it that if it's not folded/processed correctly then it can cause such allergy etc?

Like I said I have minimal GH research under my belt and have only ever used MK...

But I would think that getting a Generic GH like Provider and I've heard good from Somas too, that you wouldn't have to worry about that problem and GH is still GH in this case...

And Generic is only Generic for us, I'm sure there are places that use what we consider Generic... Jintropin comes to mind, aren't they/weren't they considered Pharma in some countries?

 

[dannyd]

Again, you're talking about the top 5 at the Olympia. I think it's safe to say those guys aren't struggling for money... So the fact that they use it is only because money is no issue.



I highly doubt it would make any difference...

Phil would probably still win... Kai would still not come in "Arnold Classic Condition" and the rest (Dex, Wolf, Rhoden, Branch, Ramy) would all be fighting for 3rd-7th...

You want to believe what you want to believe, the pro in this discussion says it's the choice of any pro, and pitbull says he's heard from top trainers that it shouldn't be different but pharma and generics do give different results on appearance on stage...so no matter what the experts say you want to believe it only comes down to money and that they're happier throwing away money. These guys are bb'ers, they're not making ridiculous bank, Phil yes, Branch yes cause he earned it thru legit business... the rest are 6 figure guys and not high 6 figure guys, I make 6 figures and I can tell ya that 10 years of this salary I can't live my entire life on that, their lifespan as a top pro is short and their money making years are limited, they're not throwing away money cause it's falling out of the sky for them. They use it cause they need it to compete. You're talking like they're walking around with David Prices contract.

I highly doubt it wouldn't make a difference, so we got 2 opinions, it's just talk none of them are stupid enough to chance that switch.

 

[dannyd]

And Generic is only Generic for us, I'm sure there are places that use what we consider Generic... Jintropin comes to mind, aren't they/weren't they considered Pharma in some countries?

Jins are pharma but if you're suggesting there are some countries using greys or rips back in the day which are the top of the food chain in generics in hospitals, no.

 

[johnjuanb1]

JJB1; that's interesting stuff, I've never ever heard of that happening though. I've always either heard of real or fake/no GH generics..

Are you saying that it can appear a GH is working although it is not folded/processed correctly? Or is it that if it's not folded/processed correctly then it can cause such allergy etc?

Like I said I have minimal GH research under my belt and have only ever used MK...

But I would think that getting a Generic GH like Provider and I've heard good from Somas too, that you wouldn't have to worry about that problem and GH is still GH in this case...

And Generic is only Generic for us, I'm sure there are places that use what we consider Generic... Jintropin comes to mind, aren't they/weren't they considered Pharma in some countries?

The testing here showed former brands you mentioned as testing over dosed in 191aa HGH but at very poor quality. If it's not perfect it can cause the production of antibodies, which has been shown here in years past by IGF1 numbers getting lower over time at the same HGH dose. If it's not the correct structure it may actually block the HGH receptor.
That's the difference between generics and pharma, the level of purity which is essential.

 

[spartan995]

B-BOY is right!

If the 3 dimensional structure of the 191aa HGH is not folded perfectly it can lead to destruction of the bodies ability to use HGH permanently, even HGH produced in the body.
Even though the generic appears to be working, it can lead to permanent damage of the bodies' ability to use synthetic of pituitary made HGH.

Generic HGH is not the same as pharma grade HGH.

~ Cautions and Potential Problems with So-Called Generic and Compounded Human Growth Hormone (HGH)

"Purification and handling of proteins produced in cell cultures can too easily produce variations in folding, unfolding, cross-linkages, and variable aggregates of multiple proteins hooked together as dimers and polymers. These can cause immune responses and allergy to HGH, even endogenously produced HGH. Extraction and purification are very complex. Minuscule residues from the cell culture are inevitable and vary from product to product. It is relatively easy to get hormone activity, but extensive human testing is required for to prove safety for any new FOPP, including so-called "generic" HGH."

"To be completely safe, dimers, polymers, aggregates, improper folding, glycosylation, broken cross-linkages, pyrogens, and contaminants must be strictly controlled during manufacture and packaging. This molecule is fragile and the freeze drying and packaging process can further alter its structure. Such abnormalities may not block hormone activity, and the product may seem to work quite well in many cases, but the altered molecules may stimulate immune reactions and cause allergy and desensitization to HGH, with subsequent and permanent decrease in hormone response. Such autoimmunity has been reported with as little as one percent of the injected HGH in an altered form, causing the body to neutralize internally produced as well as injected HGH."

With current testing of gh, I don't believe using generic is a problem. If you look at pharmaceutical drug pricings in general, it is stupid. All they care about is making an enormous amount of money. My UC meds, without insurance, are 700.00. Ridiculous. The price of the pharm gh is not worth it. The only stuff I have seen to be somewhat worth its price is humatrope.

 

[NEMSZ]

You want to believe what you want to believe, the pro in this discussion says it's the choice of any pro, and pitbull says he's heard from top trainers that it shouldn't be different but pharma and generics do give different results on appearance on stage...so no matter what the experts say you want to believe it only comes down to money and that they're happier throwing away money. These guys are bb'ers, they're not making ridiculous bank, Phil yes, Branch yes cause he earned it thru legit business... the rest are 6 figure guys and not high 6 figure guys, I make 6 figures and I can tell ya that 10 years of this salary I can't live my entire life on that, their lifespan is short and their money making years are limited, they're not throwing away money cause it's falling out of the sky for them. They use it cause they need it to compete. You're talking like they're walking around with David Prices contract.

I highly doubt it wouldn't make a difference, so we got 2 opinions, it's just talk none of them are stupid enough to chance that switch.

I understand what you're saying completely. I'm just stating in my opinion i think it's a money thing.

I make in the 6 figure (low 6 figure) range as well, but I would say that most of them are not low 6 figure guys (the top 5 I mentioned above). Aside from Branch and Phil, Dex does a like 5+ contests a year no? Assuming he has decent sponsorship too I'd say he's probably getting to the mid 6 figure range. I'd say with everything accounted for so are probably the other guys, which of course isn't millionaire status but springing 1k a month on Pharma GH becomes a non issue if I was making 400k a year. Making 100k different story...

But I guess maybe for the top competitors it can make a difference on stage, you're right. I have no experience in this area what so ever, I don't compete and don't have that trained eye for it. Nor do I really care for it to be honest.

Now let's talk about for the average person; do I or 99% of this board really need pharma GH? Let's say I'm using for a sport, like I posted before I'm getting back into MMA, for healing, fat burning, sleep and "muscle" (as this is an ongoing debate in another thread), would Pharma really be that much better? Or for anti aging? Would it be, say for my father? Better than Greys?

For things/people that are not put under the microscope on appearance at the top of a sport where how you look is what matters? Is it really that big of a difference?

 

[NEMSZ]

The testing here showed former brands you mentioned as testing over dosed in 191aa HGH but at very poor quality. If it's not perfect it can cause the production of antibodies, which has been shown here in years past by IGF1 numbers getting lower over time at the same HGH dose. If it's not the correct structure it may actually block the HGH receptor.
That's the difference between generics and pharma, the level of purity which is essential.

Ah I see, thanks for the info bro...

There's honestly only one or 2 people I trust for generic, which is why I haven't pulled the trigger yet. But I have seen many do as you say, first couple tests are great and then it declines. Who knows what that decline is doing to the body..

 

[get it in ya]

any top guy would be stupid not to buy the best out there or best quality. there income depends on how they place and how they look for most of them. if I was a pro I would never consider generic, its to hit or miss. buy the best

 

[dannyd]

Now let's talk about for the average person; do I or 99% of this board really need pharma GH? Let's say I'm using for a sport, like I posted before I'm getting back into MMA, for healing, fat burning, sleep and "muscle" (as this is an ongoing debate in another thread), would Pharma really be that much better? Or for anti aging? Would it be, say for my father? Better than Greys?

For things/people that are not put under the microscope on appearance at the top of a sport where how you look is what matters? Is it really that big of a difference?

Average person, do we really need pharma gh if we're not elite level competing, no but then we probably don't need the gh at all lol. If a generic could be consistent then it would be a great option but outside of the provider or hk as they carry the same thing nobody elses generic has ever held up for any amount of time, that's simply ridiculous. Then as jj mentioned how vital the purity is and how you can be doing more negative than positive by trying to save money with a generic that isn't made perfectly. Even the 2 sources mentioned as having stood the test of time have had purity questions which says something. Each of us has to decide how much extra value using that pharma product is worth to them...Pharma gh can be around 500 a month for 4 iu per day, a generic is cheaper but not by an extreme amount. For me the peace of mind of not having to wonder about the quality is worth the extra surcharge but if you get a great generic and it meets somewhere close to the same criteria as a pharma then it doesn't make a difference for the average gym rat go cheaper but that is a big IF as history has shown.

 

[Pericles]

Average person, do we really need pharma gh if we're not elite level competing, no but then we probably don't need the gh at all lol. If a generic could be consistent then it would be a great option but outside of the provider or hk as they carry the same thing nobody elses generic has ever held up for any amount of time, that's simply ridiculous. Then as jj mentioned how vital the purity is and how you can be doing more negative than positive by trying to save money with a generic that isn't made perfectly. Even the 2 sources mentioned as having stood the test of time have had purity questions which says something. Each of us has to decide how much extra value using that pharma product is worth to them...Pharma gh can be around 500 a month for 4 iu per day, a generic is cheaper but not by an extreme amount. For me the peace of mind of not having to wonder about the quality is worth the extra surcharge but if you get a great generic and it meets somewhere close to the same criteria as a pharma then it doesn't make a difference for the average gym rat go cheaper but that is a big IF as history has shown.

Regardless of money if it's not pure why would u put it in your body? If some of the generics are said to create antibodies whether you compete or not that is not a good thing. Who knows long term what the reprussions of that are

 

[nozeryder]

If igf levels are raised is it safe to assume the gh is "working"?

 

[NEMSZ]

Average person, do we really need pharma gh if we're not elite level competing, no but then we probably don't need the gh at all lol. If a generic could be consistent then it would be a great option but outside of the provider or hk as they carry the same thing nobody elses generic has ever held up for any amount of time, that's simply ridiculous. Then as jj mentioned how vital the purity is and how you can be doing more negative than positive by trying to save money with a generic that isn't made perfectly. Even the 2 sources mentioned as having stood the test of time have had purity questions which says something. Each of us has to decide how much extra value using that pharma product is worth to them...Pharma gh can be around 500 a month for 4 iu per day, a generic is cheaper but not by an extreme amount. For me the peace of mind of not having to wonder about the quality is worth the extra surcharge but if you get a great generic and it meets somewhere close to the same criteria as a pharma then it doesn't make a difference for the average gym rat go cheaper but that is a big IF as history has shown.

You're right, I can get Serostim for around that price, but you have to understand where I come from too, like this;

$500 a month for 4iu/day Serostim
$800 for 4 months 6iu/day Grey's

This is why I want to be 1000% sure and want to learn as much as I can. The price is pretty significant bro lol not barely..

And raise that Sero to 6iu/day and you're talking about the same price for 1 month Pharma as 4 months Generic (the tested and proven Greys)

 

[dannyd]

Regardless of money if it's not pure why would u put it in your body? If some of the generics are said to create antibodies whether you compete or not that is not a good thing. Who knows long term what the reprussions of that are

I agree 100% but I was asked do we need pharma and technically no, if you can find the right generic but as I said that right generic hasn't been easy if its been found period to come by and for me it's not worth experimenting with, to me it's worth it to pay extra and go pharma.

 

[dannyd]

You're right, I can get Serostim for around that price, but you have to understand where I come from too, like this;

$500 a month for 4iu/day Serostim
$800 for 4 months 6iu/day Grey's

This is why I want to be 1000% sure and want to learn as much as I can. The price is pretty significant bro lol not barely..

And raise that Sero to 6iu/day and you're talking about the same price for 1 month Pharma as 4 months Generic (the tested and proven Greys)

I havent seen the price for greys but most generics I see coming domestically are in the 150ish range for 100 iu, seros would be domestic so apples to apples, so around 200 per month. It's cheaper but I guess it's all relative I spend more than 300 bucks a month on sushi so to me 300 more per month doesn't feel all that extravagant to know it's the real deal. Over the year months 3600 bucks more, yeah it adds up but it's your body, how much is it worth to you. Would I rather have 3600 to play with than drop it on gh sure but if it's building antibodies, if it's not working as effectively or at all, if it's not safe what good is another 3600 bucks, I can always find a way to make another 3600 bucks, can't get my health back, cant get wasted time back. To me the onus is on the generic to prove it's safe and effective to me more than it's on pharma to prove it's worth the price tag.