Pre-Exhaust for growth..

[bigguns078]

How many people here use a pre-exhaust technique for growth.. I know Dorian and a bunch of other professionals believe in this concept.. My main concern is for quad growth.. This would include leg extensions as a pre-exhaust then doing squats afterwards. The pre-exhaust would allow for more quad stimulation during squats.. Less inclined to use secondary muscles like lower back and glutes..

 

[muscledoc1]

Can you give me an example of what exactly is pre-exhaust training is?

 

[alecaf]

I think its when you make the muscle very tired before the main set. ???

 

[dya]

Isolation Excercise followed by a Compound movement.Example for Chest - Flyes then Bench Press.Shoulders - Laterals then Barbell presses.Mike Mentzer was big on Isolation supersets.Leg Extensions then staight to Leg Press without rest for example....

 

[Fa Seeshus]

i like to do leg presses before squats. then when i squat i feel it more in the legs, less in the low back.


i don't take the legs presses balls to the wall... just a few light to moderate sets with a full range of motion.

 

[ferd]

The theory is to use an isolation movement to exhaust the muscle, then immediately go to a compound movement to push the primary muscle even further by using the secondary muscles involved in the movement. Example: Pec dec then on to benches which uses the shoulders and triceps to help work the chest even further.

 

[BIGKIWI]

Yeah I deffinately think it times of stagnant growth it can be used effectively to kick start some growth. If any thing it will shock ur system and that can only be good

 

[Sesshomaru]

It doesnt make too much sense to me because youll be forced to use less weight in the compound movement which doesnt do much for growth and can put you at risk for injury if you pre-fatigue too much.

Now Im all for warming up or doing muscle activation work to make sure a muscle is firing, but if Im going to combine a compound lift and an isolation lift back to back, Id go with post-exhaustion as a better alternative in my opinion.

 

[chris250]

It doesnt make too much sense to me because youll be forced to use less weight in the compound movement which doesnt do much for growth and can put you at risk for injury if you pre-fatigue too much.

Now Im all for warming up or doing muscle activation work to make sure a muscle is firing, but if Im going to combine a compound lift and an isolation lift back to back, Id go with post-exhaustion as a better alternative in my opinion.

I agree, with this Sesshomaru- Cause I believe you need to use the most weight on your compound movement...I think doing other high intensity stuff, such as rest pauses, drop sets, supersets, ect...Are better for mixing it up for growth than pre-exhaustion...

chris

 

[halflife]

I agree, with this Sesshomaru- Cause I believe you need to use the most weight on your compound movement...I think doing other high intensity stuff, such as rest pauses, drop sets, supersets, ect...Are better for mixing it up for growth than pre-exhaustion...

chris

agreed

 

[bigguns078]

It doesnt make too much sense to me because youll be forced to use less weight in the compound movement which doesnt do much for growth and can put you at risk for injury if you pre-fatigue too much.
Now Im all for warming up or doing muscle activation work to make sure a muscle is firing, but if Im going to combine a compound lift and an isolation lift back to back, Id go with post-exhaustion as a better alternative in my opinion.

I understand what you are saying.. And it is a valid point that yes... You will be forced to use less weight.. No doubt, especially if (i will stick to my quads example) you do your set/sets of leg extensions to failure..

I do not agree with your reason for risk of injury... That is like saying.. IF i do 2 working sets of squats.. then when i go to do my 2 sets of Hack Squats im going to be prone to injury because my quads are fatigued from regular squats.... Then why would anyone do more than one exercise for each bodypart in a given day?? Then you would run a risk of injury...

Also.. I believe you are LESS inclined to injury by doing a pre-exhaust.. I get the best muscle feel and mind/muscle connection after the muscle is slightly fatigued.. With the pump already going and with all that blood in the muscle.. I feel like i am working that muscle better..

Also... From my personal experience.. When i do squats first.. I tend to have to do tons of warmup sets to get the blood going.. the muscle loose.. before i can get to my working sets.. YES.. I will be doing heavier weight for my working sets.. But then again.. with the heavier weight you run the risk of bringing your back and glutes... Slightly into play..

Also.. I don't believe amount of weight is the ultimate factor in muscle growth.. I really believe in maximum muscle stimulation... By using a pre-exhaust technique.. I think that you could possibly get a better muscle stimulation on squats..

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Just a quick question

What do you think your quads would look like if you did a

405 deep squat for 24 reps?

or a

6 plate a side hack squat for 22 reps?

 

[Iabadman]

Exactly DC.......super sets, pre -exhaust , drop sets......ect.....all feel good ....ie pump and muscle burn............but if you want gains.......just take a compound movement and get brutally strong on it .......with good bber form on the lift and you will progress faster than doing anything fancy imo. Dante trained me ........and put nearly 80 lbs on me in just a year and a half and was already 225 we we started........we didn't do anything too francy ......just work hard [brutal hard] on basic lifts, give the body rest to grow , and lots of rest . The stength gains that produced those mass gains were insane .........lots of heavy slag iron.......it took Dante to get me to see the light ........that bob kenedy pre -exhaust .....and weider super sets weren't the way to go if you want to gain mass in the shortest time possible.....

 

[halflife]

Exactly DC.......super sets, pre -exhaust , drop sets......ect.....all feel good ....ie pump and muscle burn............but if you want gains.......just take a compound movement and get brutally strong on it .......with good bber form on the lift and you will progress faster than doing anything fancy imo. Dante trained me ........and put nearly 80 lbs on me in just a year and a half and was already 225 we we started........we didn't do anything too francy ......just work hard [brutal hard] on basic lifts, give the body rest to grow , and lots of rest . The stength gains that produced those mass gains were insane .........lots of heavy slag iron.......it took Dante to get me to see the light ........that bob kenedy pre -exhaust .....and weider super sets weren't the way to go if you want to gain mass in the shortest time possible.....

As I said above I've done pre exhaust, they work. I like working my strong muscle (like tri's in a bench if I wana hit my chest) first so my chest takes the most stress. I've done this training for about 4 years.

But recently (past 10 months) have went to basic lifts high intensity - straight lift a shit load of weight... and I've grown for sure.

From my results I feel ultimately the HIT/DC type of training is best for overall mass.

BUT some people can't put 100% intensity into 2 working sets.... Some people can't keep the focus to do 25+ reps. I honestly do have a level of both these problems, you may say 'then go home' but there is more than one way to build muscle and for me I like to switch off between them every 3 months.

I do feel if someone had the intensity and focus (many many lifters do) to lift with the HIT protocols then it is definitely superior in my opinion. But for the rest there are other ways.

Everything works, nothing works forever.

 

[maldorf]

I tried per-exhaust by doing leg extensions then the squat. At first I was quite weak doing the squats but quickly built up strength over the next 4 weeks or so. I ended up adding about 30 pounds or so to my squat during that time. After that adaptation, I did not make any more progress for 2 more months of trial. WHen I went back to a regular non pre-exhaust workout, my squat was no stronger than before I had started the experiment. From my experience, I would have to say that pre-exhaust did nothing for the growth of my legs. I do feel though that it was a nice break from the heavy weight, and might be usefull if you need time to detrain a little and give your body a rest. WHen I returned to the heavier squats all of my little tweaks or injuries had healed up and that felt good. My core though felt a bit weaker supporting the weight. Perhaps if I had only done the pre-exhaust for 2-3 weeks tops things would have been better.

 

[Iabadman]

half life .....thats a good post ..........that why training is fun and is fun to talk about .....no one knows exactly what is the perfect way to train ......but great trainers [ie Dante and Phil] are observationists. They not only have seen what works for them ,but have been able to see results in the dozens of people that the worked with ,as well as the top athletes they know or help.[ and look at their results........Dante is a huge guy .....that was once a 128 lb adult ......Think how much muscle he put on to get up to his largest at 306 ? I mean I was a lean 220 at 16....he busted his ass to be a big man.....And Phil? He , Ronnie ,Tom prince , and maybe Vic richards carried the most mass per square inch ever......think about that.....the desity is insane .....yes, he has thick Irish genetics.....but he earned his muscle ] Yes ,everything works .......but these guys know the shortest distance between two points thats all ..........they have spent their lives trying to find what works best and I think they are pretty damm close..........people get bored or don't want always bust ass .......we are get that way ............but what these guys are saying is," you can train to really gain..........or you can just train." If want big muscles train right ,smart , and just put in the work.........if you just like training and don't mind spinning your wheels ...then do whateve you want ,but don't expect to make the gains that you are hoping for........

 

[bigguns078]

Just a quick question

What do you think your quads would look like if you did a

405 deep squat for 24 reps?

or a

6 plate a side hack squat for 22 reps?

Not sure.. Hopefully full and thick.. I have never trained legs with that type of rep range.. I admit.. I was brainwashed into the 8 to 10 rep range for a long time.. That is why i come here for answers and suggestions.. I need to put alot of muscle on my legs and im looking for an effective way of doing so.. I know with legs in your training style alot of people incorporate a widowmaker set.. The legs have to be really taxed and pre-exhausted before that widowmaker set.. I would assume widowmakers account for alot of leg development with DC trainees..

 

[Sesshomaru]

I understand what you are saying.. And it is a valid point that yes... You will be forced to use less weight.. No doubt, especially if (i will stick to my quads example) you do your set/sets of leg extensions to failure..

I do not agree with your reason for risk of injury... That is like saying.. IF i do 2 working sets of squats.. then when i go to do my 2 sets of Hack Squats im going to be prone to injury because my quads are fatigued from regular squats.... Then why would anyone do more than one exercise for each bodypart in a given day?? Then you would run a risk of injury...

Youre using two compound movements that are very similar in nature, so the entire chain is stressed rather than just a particular link. When youre pre-exhausting, its usually an isolation exercise (i.e. leg ext in the squat case) before the compound. Bashing a link into the ground puts the kinetic chain at more risk rather than stressing the entire chain itself.

 

[big-O]

agreed

body building isnt about lifting the most weight its about what works the muscle hardest. for example lifting lighter weight but with perfect form and contraction of the muscle as opposed to jus throwin up some weight

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

body building isnt about lifting the most weight its about what works the muscle hardest. for example lifting lighter weight but with perfect form and contraction of the muscle as opposed to jus throwin up some weight

I keep hearing people say this and I want to say

Ok then squat 135 for the rest of your bodybuilding career while working the quads the hardest you can and tell me what happens.

What would happen if you got to the point that you lifted the heaviest weights you could in perfect form for 8 to 20 reps?

Give me the guy with the best genetics for muscle building in the world and for his entire career have him lift the exact same weights as he does in his very first workout and see how far that gets him......

Its not going to be very far.

I dont understand why everyone automatically thinks "heavy" means shitty form and 3 reps per set?

who made that rule up?