Why steriods gains diminish after 8 weeks.

[chrisrivers]

Interesting, I guess that's why Dave P suggests 16 week cycles changing compounds every 8 weeks.

So like test 8 weeks than something like NPP for the last 8? Or more like running test the whole 16 weeks and switching the the 2nd compounds midway?

 

[LATS]

WELL.. in my next storytime you will see a "eastern block" competitor that was taught just these techniques.. he uses short acting esters and blasts for 4 to 6 weeks.. then the compounds are taken way down for the same period.. this, of course, can not be accomplished effectively with longer ester compounds..

 

[VitoBrata]

Interesting.

 

[Newman]

The following may be the answer (tentatively). this report on myostatin (a powerful muscle growth inhibitor) shows that after 8 weeks on Testoterone, myostatin levels rise significantly. Fortunately it's dependent on Testosterone levels and not muscle mass. When you stop the Test, myostatin levels go back to normal....

8-10 weeks is when the gains from a cycle peeter out.

Well, you've started a really thread here, Scientist.

I'm curious how long it normally takes for myostatins to reduce to pre-cycle levels?

Put differently, I'm wondering how long it would be before a guy could go back on cycle again?

Also, do you have a link to that study so we can read it in closer detail?

 

[The Scientist]

Well, you've started a really thread here, Scientist.

I'm curious how long it normally takes for myostatins to reduce to pre-cycle levels?

Put differently, I'm wondering how long it would be before a guy could go back on cycle again?

Also, do you have a link to that study so we can read it in closer detail?

Hi here is the link to the study...

**broken link removed**

 

[The Scientist]

Its easy to manipulate the body before myostatin kicks in...

And best of all you can use all your esthers...

Let me explain...

For health reasons I suggest you do shorter cycles.

Example:
Day 1 to 10 - 250mg Sustonan per day
Day 11 to 20 - 200 mg Deca Nandrolone, 50 mg Deca Durabolin

As you can see we created a mimic effect with the Deca Durabolin to act the same on a time level as Test Prop in Sust.

So as the Sust esthers start releasing by day 2 and reach highest peak around day 8 with the decaonate peaking and the day 2 Sust around day 9 and so on...all will be cleared out of your system by day 35 before your body can step up natuaral myostatin production -The next growth level will be to layer some gh/insulin or pgf-2/mgf at around day 15 for another 20 day's and then a PCT.

 

[Drago]

day 11 to 20 you mean... 200 deca nandrolone + 50 deca durabolin per day ??

and then how long stopping gear ?

and three month before a show you can't do this ?

thank's for the answer

drago

 

[The Scientist]

day 11 to 20 you mean... 200 deca nandrolone + 50 deca durabolin per day ??

and then how long stopping gear ?

and three month before a show you can't do this ?

thank's for the answer

drago

Hi Drago,

Yes 200 nandrolone + durabolin.

Why cant you do it 3 months before a comp?

I did this exact cycle 3 months out of my comp and at day 15 started to with a 20 day Cytadren and Arimedex for another 20 days.

 

[Drago]

ok, but in the off-season after 20 days with sust and dec , will you stay off 2-3 weeks and begin with the same stack ?

 

[The Scientist]

ok, but in the off-season after 20 days with sust and dec , will you stay off 2-3 weeks and begin with the same stack ?

Well there is three phases to it...First phase - Androgenic/Anabolic - 20 days
Second phase - Peptides - 20 days
Third phase - PCT - 20 days
or
First phase - Androgenic/Anabolic -20 days
Second phase - PCT - 20 days
Third phase - Peptides - 20 days

 

[jdavid1139]

i would LOVE to hear Emeric's opinion of this.

 

[The Scientist]

thank's for the answer scientist but can you explain me what's t
the 2 phase peptide ?
and the 3 phase PCT ??

i'm 40 year's old competitive bodybuilder from europe.

and i'm very interesting about short cycle

Okay let me quickly break it down for you...

Peptides is GH,Insulin, Igf-1 and MGF

Day 1 to 3 GH 2 iu 4xd/Humulin-R 10 iu 2xd/Cytomel 50-75 mcg.
Day 4 to 7 Humulin-R 10 iu 2xd/Cytomel 50-75 mcg.
Day 8 to 10 Repeat day 1 to 3
Day 11 to 14 Repeat day 4 to 7

PCT stands for Post Cycle Treatment...and will be something like this...

Day 1 Metyrapone 500 mg
Day 2 Arimidex 1 mg and so on till day 20...get it?

 

[mrshoulders]

Interesting, but I don't by it...If that were the case myostatin would inhibit gains after 8 weeks and I know that is not true...The homostasis set point can also be moved forward by cycles of longer duration plus your body creates more/new receptor sites to accommodate the added load of aas saturation

 

[weltweite]

Interesting, but I don't by it...If that were the case myostatin would inhibit gains after 8 weeks and I know that is not true...The homostasis set point can also be moved forward by cycles of longer duration plus your body creates more/new receptor sites to accommodate the added load of aas saturation

I had stated earlier in this thread, that myostatin actually goes down in a GH/TEST cycle from the studies I read. (I know OP was talking about test only but that leads me to a slight confusion, as I had always gone off this and some other studies on my thoughts that myostatin goes down..:

Muscle Expressions of MGF, IGF-IEa, and Myostatin in Intact and Hypophysectomized Rats: Effects of rhGH and Testosterone Alone or Combined.

Rigamonti AE, Locatelli L, Cella SG, Bonomo SM, Giunta M, Molinari F, Sartorio A, Müller EE.

1Department of Medical Pharmacology, University of Milan, Milan, Italy.

Myostatin and mechano-growth factor (MGF), an isoform of insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I), are two important regulators of muscle hypertrophy.

The aim of the present study was to investigate the effects of recombinant human growth hormone (rhGH) and/or testosterone on muscle MGF/IGF-IEa/myostatin expression in intact and hypophysectomized rats treated for 15 d with 1) saline or rhGH, 2) sesame oil or testosterone, 3) saline+sesame oil, or rhGH+testosterone (first experiment) or for 7 d with saline or rhGH (second experiment).

Animals were killed by decapitation 24 h or 4 d after the last injection (first or second experiment, respectively). Muscle expressions of MGF, IGF-IEa, and myostatin were determined by RT-PCR. A significant increase in the weight of gastrocnemius muscle was observed only in hypophysectomized rats treated with rhGH alone or in combination with testosterone.

Administration of rhGH to hypophysectomized rats caused a marked increase in both MGF and IGF-IEa muscle mRNA levels (without any change in the muscle expression of myostatin),


an effect that was abolished when testosterone was combined with rhGH.

Conversely, in intact rats rhGH increased myostatin muscle mRNA levels without affecting those of MGF and IGF-IEa.


Testosterone, alone or combined with rhGH, induced an inhibition of myostatin expression in the muscle of intact rats,


but did not change muscle paradigms of hypophysectomized rats.

In conclusion, rhGH and/or testosterone anabolic effects in the muscle are mediated by a different expression of MGF/IGF-IEa/myostatin, which is related to the pituitary function.

So I'm slightly confused reading this study and then reading this thread. What am I missing here? Perhaps length duration? 15 day experiment, vs. 8 week experiment..?

 

[RINO]

Nope , gains slow but don't stop. The theory I'm sure is right .But you'll still grow.Even after 15 weeks.

 

[The Scientist]

I had stated earlier in this thread, that myostatin actually goes down in a GH/TEST cycle from the studies I read. (I know OP was talking about test only but that leads me to a slight confusion, as I had always gone off this and some other studies on my thoughts that myostatin goes down..:



So I'm slightly confused reading this study and then reading this thread. What am I missing here? Perhaps length duration? 15 day experiment, vs. 8 week experiment..?

Hi I think it is the difference between 15 days and 8 weeks....most off my clients only go on a 10 day Androgenic/10 day Anabolic cycle and the results so far is amazing and what I see from blood work is just as amazing.

Let me explain:
The body is an adaptive organism with Action/Reaction Factors both good and
bad. In the case of building muscle each factor had to be considered and
responded "to" or "with" the appropriate response for long term ultimate progress to be achieved. In most cases, an atheletes body reacte positively to chemical muscle enhancement protocols of a brief intense nature. "Get in, grow harder, get out" is the ideal intent. However, if any phase or protocol ran too long the body would have begin counter measures that could have eventually resulted in failure and the destruction of the organism.

So my conclusion on the myostatin being raise is this...
As an athelete run a cycle longer than 6 to 8 weeks he's body start to counter react to the levels raised by elevating levels like Cortisol, Estrogen, Prolactin and Somastatin etc...all these levels get to a certain level and Myostatin starts raising. As you come off your cycle all these different levels first need to return to baseline before Myoststin returns back to baseline.

Now there is a lot of folks that will disagree with me on this and just stick to the 'old fashioned' 8 to 12 weeks.

"More is not always better unless we are discussing breasts".

So why stay on for 12 weeks and raise all these levels where you can get the same results or better from just a 20 day cycle...and no Health issues what so ever.

Enough is just right. Think of it like this: If more were always better, why do you hate alimony payments?

 

[giff]

this is a very interesting read, anyone apart from scientist use this method? some of the older guys?

 

[joesamphilip]

Hello. I'm sure your theory must be a researched one but i have a couple of questions. Why does EQ work best yielding results when run for a minimum of 15 - 16 weeks with folk not seeing any kind of result up until weeks 6 - 8?

And similarly deca durabolin?

 

[superbeast22]

I am interested in this method as well as i have a vial of test prop laying around and would LOVE to do 700mg/week for 20 days if i could get some gains!

 

[The Scientist]

I am interested in this method as well as i have a vial of test prop laying around and would LOVE to do 700mg/week for 20 days if i could get some gains!

Hi Superbeast,

Try this...utilized all short /fast acting esters. Each of which had an active -
life of about 72 hours and a half-life of 36 hours.

Day 1 to 10 - 150 mg Prop/ 50 mg Masteron
Day 11 to 15 - 100 mg Durabolin / 150 mg Prop
Day 16 to 20 - 150 mg Durabolin / 100 mg Prop
Day 21 to 25 - 200 mg Durabolin / 50 mg Prop