2 diet questions

[guns123]

1.ASSUMING you would like to replace carbs with protein,if you eat excess protein that gets converted to glucose, what is the equivalent of this protein to that of a carbs source?

e.g 0.5g protein = 1g carbs??

obviously taking into account any energy that may be used in the glucogenesis process


2.palumbos diet- how is it a keto diet and how are you in ketosis when the carbs intake in 140g-180g per day. ketosis is said to occur when carbs are kept under 50g per day

 

[guns123]

bump

 

[loganb_football]

There are a lot of variables involved to really say what it could be... Metablism, supplement use, etc.

 

[Blenderate]

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[VTliftVT]

You normally need to go very low to no carb to get into ketosis. Once there, and this also depends on the person, you can slowly add more and more carbs to a certain individual threshold. Whenever I have done ketosis type diets I buy the little strips to pee on that register if there are ketones in your urine. You can then test different amounts of carbs, how far into the diet you can get away with a certian amoun of carbs etc. Again, the ketosis part is highly individual so just check it yourself.

 

[ojs]

Also keep in mind that carbs taken immediately after a hard workout don't effect you being in ketosis as much. And for some people can completely be ignored in the carb count.

I've seen a good number of people keep a ketogenic diet going with 150g of carbs daily by pounding 75g of sugar post workout and spreading another 75g of fibrous veggies and some oatmeal or brown rice throughout the day. If you can keep your insulin flat you're keto'ing.

 

[guns123]

yes i have heard that you can get away with a high gi pwo shake and it will kick you right backi into ketosis, john beradi wrote something on that. dp however is a sustained carb intake of 20g per meal?any more views on this?

is there no vague averadge answer to the 1st question, going by an averadge male, no drugs etc?

 

[ojs]

yes i have heard that you can get away with a high gi pwo shake and it will kick you right backi into ketosis, john beradi wrote something on that. dp however is a sustained carb intake of 20g per meal?any more views on this?

is there no vague averadge answer to the 1st question, going by an averadge male, no drugs etc?

I just don't see how you can. Everyone's liver has such a different neoglucogenic capacity. So much so that a few convert so slow that they walk around in a complete fog without carbs. And the brain/nervous system only needs about 15g or so a day. That would suggest that they aren't making shit. That's why dieting in the extreme cases gets so personal.

 

[capsaicin]

Has anyone ever heard of Rabbit starvation? During the winter when most food sources become scarce there are always rabbits to eat. A person will become very sick if they live on rabbits alone. Rabbits are low in fat and a similar problem is seen if eating other lean meats without either fat or protein as an energy source. Feeding of fat or carbohydrates relieves this problem. This makes me wonder if protein is not used as an energy source. I understand that the biochemical pathway exists for amino acids to enter the krebs cycle, but is there any proof that they are being used as a major energy source? How does the body deal with all the ammonia produced?

If you are worried replace the carbs with vegetables.

 

[ojs]

Has anyone ever heard of Rabbit starvation? During the winter when most food sources become scarce there are always rabbits to eat. A person will become very sick if they live on rabbits alone. Rabbits are low in fat and a similar problem is seen if eating other lean meats without either fat or protein as an energy source. Feeding of fat or carbohydrates relieves this problem. This makes me wonder if protein is not used as an energy source. I understand that the biochemical pathway exists for amino acids to enter the krebs cycle, but is there any proof that they are being used as a major energy source? How does the body deal with all the ammonia produced?

If you are worried replace the carbs with vegetables.

Vegetables are carbs.

 

[capsaicin]

I guess that vegetables do have carbohydrates, but I thought that green vegetables (lettuce, broccoli, kale, etc.) have so little carbs that they are not worth counting. That and the health benefit of eating vegetables outweighs the slight carbs. I guess that I should have said green vegetables.

 

[VTliftVT]

I guess that vegetables do have carbohydrates, but I thought that green vegetables (lettuce, broccoli, kale, etc.) have so little carbs that they are not worth counting. That and the health benefit of eating vegetables outweighs the slight carbs. I guess that I should have said green vegetables.

the reason people dismiss green vegetables is because most of the carbs in them are fiber. that means that insulin isn't spiked etc and have little affect on blood glucose levels. however, they are carbs and can be counted as such.

 

[Largeman250]

I'm no expert but heres my perspective.. Protein has the amazing ability to perform a dual purpose in the body, it can be used as a fuel OR a tissue repair/builder. that being said there really isn't a reference to convert protein equivalency to carbohydrate and what your asking in reality doesn't really need that to be answered anyway.. What needs to be understood is why you increase protein/fat when on a ketogenic diet. this is a very long and drawn out process so ill try to "cliffs notes" it for you, basically the first principal in any type of diet is to create a calorie deficit based on your BMR also taking into consideration activity level and supplementation. For a natural dieter the body responds to the reduction in calories by reducing various metabolic pathways because it sees the reduction as a disruption of the natural set point or homeostasis. this is where partitioning of nutrients comes in.. on a ketogenic diet your not only reducing calories but your restricting a natural and "perfect" fuel source for the body to the point its being forced into finding an alternate source for generating energy. Protein is used during a keto diet mainly for preservation of lean muscle tissue but also for energy production the goal is to provide enough protein to serve that dual purpose and allow the body to give up its fat store as a more potent fuel source. ketosis is usually achieved by reducing the carbohydrate intake to 100g or less per day but its different for everyone. fat is usually most commonly manipulated to achieve the correct calorie range and increase satiety while in a moderate to sever calorie deficit also FATS should mostly be "healthy fats" (usually unsaturated oils)

whole grains and vegetables are a good source of carbohydrate when your on either a "balanced" diet or your dieting to add LEAN mass... they DO AFFECT BLOOD SUGAR they are just digested at a different rate then refined and processed sugars making them convert and enter the blood at a slow even pace rather then instantaneously causing a rapid release of insulin.. when the body is given time to release insulin it will generally do so in a more controlled manner making sure that nothing is stored and everything is used. also in my opinion PWO carbs should be counted as well as they cause a rapid insulin spike to drive glucose into the muscle to be stored as glycogen and you can never be certain as to the amount of glycogen your body is capable of storing or needs at that particular time so the excess carbohydrate will take you out of ketosis... atleast that has been my experience

dave palumbos diet that your talking about is for "lean bulking" he doesn't generally advocate carbohydrates for reducing fat. i have had correspondence with him about his diet and what he feels makes it work through email but obviously i paid him for the service..

all of this is just information ive learned through my various certification and i may have some of my facts out of order as i sometimes lose track of where im going when i try to talk about this stuff but you get the idea hope this helps

 

[guns123]

I guess that vegetables do have carbohydrates, but I thought that green vegetables (lettuce, broccoli, kale, etc.) have so little carbs that they are not worth counting. That and the health benefit of eating vegetables outweighs the slight carbs. I guess that I should have said green vegetables.

depends how much you eat

for most its not WORTH counting,

i have veggie every meal so i do count

 

[Silencer]

It really is very highly variable... I eat veggies and take several teaspoons of sugar-free Metamucil every day in keto, and I occasionally nosh on a large bag of popcorn, and it doesn't kick me out of keto at all -- lots of fiber, but no simple sugars. My former lifting buddy couldn't do that, as he would get kicked out based on piss sticks. The only way to know for sure is to keep track over time. I've done 8 keto diets over the past 10 years, so I have a lot of data -- but again, it works mostly for me...

 

[guns123]

one of the reason i asked this, co-insoding with my other thread, is i am wondering why not just up the protein during meals instead of eating 20g carbs?

the excess protein will be used for the same purpose, only you will eliminate any insulin response, greater thermic effect etc?

 

[Blenderate]

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[youngmuscle]

no need to count veggies..except a few of them.. like carrots corn and peas.. the rest are all either neutral calorie or negative calorie.. and besides that the short chain fatty acids from the dietary fiber lowers circulating insulin and boosts lipolysis... and also the vitamins phytochemicals all speed metabolism an help boost protein synthesis and/or inhhibit protein breakdown... ALSO veggies help keep your ph more alkaline... ALSO the therogenci effect of veggies is super high (which is why their calorie content is negated or even negative)..