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4th Cycle: Test E/C+Var+Win (oral) Chime in and Help

baylin

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Dec 26, 2008
Messages
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Alright guys,

School is almost out, finals are next week and I want to start another cycle. It has been a couple of months since my last shot (4 months). My experience has been primarily with Basic compounds (Test E/C, D-Bol @ low doses). I am gyno prone, thus my choices are limited to only a certain amount of compounds.

Well, I am setting up my next cycle, this will be the fourth and I want to make it a good one with new things, yet still be very basic. Therefore, I have came up with this plan.

Goal: Gain lean mass/cutting down bf.

Vitals:
- Age: 24
- Height: 5'6 (yeah i am short, "wanna fight about it")
- Weight: 185 lbs
- Race: Asian
- Experience: 5 yrs BUT only 3 yrs as a bodybuilder
- Workout Philosophy: Palumbo method (contraction based, moderate weight, not too many sets)

Please give me your thoughts on this:

Compounds:
- Test E
- Test C
- Var
- Whinny (Oral)
- Tamo
- Aromasin (exemestane)

Plan:

- Week 1-4:
* Enanthate 200mg twice per wk = Weekly Total (400mg wk)
* Anavar 25mg x 3/day (every 8 hours) = Weekly Total (350 wk)
* Aromasin 12.5mg EOD = Weekly Total (50mg)

- Week 5-8:
* Cypionate 200mg twice per wk = Weekly Total (400mg wk)
* Winstrol Oral 15 mg x 3/day (every 8 hours) = Weekly Total (315mg wk)
* Aromasin 12.5mg EOD = Weekly Total (50mg)

- Week 9-12:
* Enanthate 200mg twice per wk = Weekly Total (400mg wk)
* Anavar 25mg x 3/day (every 8 hours) = Weekly Total (350 wk)
* Aromasin 12.5mg EOD = Weekly Total (50mg)

- Week 13-14:
* Anavar 25mg x 3/day (every 8 hours) = Weekly Total (350 wk)
As BigA Recommended

- Week 15-17:
* Tamo ED 40mg = Weekly Total (280mg wk)
* Aromasin 25mg ED = Weekly Total (50mg)

- Week 18-20:
* Tamo ED 20mg = Weekly Total (280mg wk)
* Aromasin 12.5mg ED = Weekly Total (50mg)


Some other information pertaining to why I want to try my cycle that way:
- Milos Sarcev (a pro/guru) has posted samples of his previous cycles online and I am trying to mick them.

- The switch between Test E and Test C is because Milos stated that a compound should not be used longer than 8 weeks. 4 weeks is when the compound peaks. I believe this is true as in my previous cycles, I would feel as if my body has plateaued right around week 8 (i read what Milos said AFTER my experience). Other pros like Palumbo states this too. So I want to try it out.

- I know I should use other faster acting Test, but I hate pinning. I actually have my girlfriend do it for me. Then I pin her afterward :D

Other Compounds in Question:
- Clomid: my last cycle was horrible as I had cyst acne for the first time. I heard it maybe the Clomid. But I think it might have been the Test C as that was the first time I used that compound, however the acne showed up around PCT time...so I will keep my eyes on that issue this time around.

- HCG: The last time around I had shrunken balls: http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/beginners-forum/65846-shrinking-balls-bad.html
I was thinking that maybe I should use the HCG this time around. What do you guys think? I do feel that the shrunken balls hold back gains, because this time around, I had never been shut down this badly in my other experiences.
- What would the HCG dosage be for this cycle?


Thanks to anyone who can chime in and I will take everything anyone says into consideration!!!

:)
 
Last edited:

flex22

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Apr 30, 2009
Messages
835
i dont understand y u go back and forth between the test eth and test cyp. By the time the=y start to kick in u already switch tyo the other. Yes they are very similiar and r both test but they r differenty estwers and both take time to buildup in ur system. So my advice is choose one and stick wit it. Id go with wuteva you ghet a better deal on since they are baasically the same
 

gstracer

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May 27, 2009
Messages
933
i dont understand y u go back and forth between the test eth and test cyp. By the time the=y start to kick in u already switch tyo the other. Yes they are very similiar and r both test but they r differenty estwers and both take time to buildup in ur system. So my advice is choose one and stick wit it. Id go with wuteva you ghet a better deal on since they are baasically the same
well if you read his whole post bro he explains why. too me looks like a good cycle ive never heard of the switching of compounds but maybe now ill looking into it. ive done 20 week cycles with test e alone and have had great results never really plateued but everyone is diff.

for the hcg i would try after 2 weeks after last pin 2000ius every 3rd day for a total of 5 shots once the last shot is taken start clomid 100mg a day for 3 weeks. thats a protocol ive read i think from pulumbo but everyone has ther ow way of using hcg....
 

baylin

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Dec 26, 2008
Messages
52
i dont understand y u go back and forth between the test eth and test cyp. By the time the=y start to kick in u already switch tyo the other. Yes they are very similiar and r both test but they r differenty estwers and both take time to buildup in ur system. So my advice is choose one and stick wit it. Id go with wuteva you ghet a better deal on since they are baasically the same
I explained it above, but for your sake and to contribute to this website:

I am doing it according to MILOS SARCEV who "hold(s) the world record for the most professional bodybuilding shows ever completed, having done 72 shows in the last 12 years. And the number is still climbing."

Cited: Killer quads: stalwart IFBB pro Milos Sarcev has a highly intense leg workout he swears will make you puke. Care to try? | Muscle & Fitness | Find Articles at BNET

Google his cycles that that he designs for other pros. I take his word because he talks very openly about what he does and how he does it.

:headbang:


ive done 20 week cycles with test e alone and have had great results never really plateued but everyone is diff.

for the hcg i would try after 2 weeks after last pin 2000ius every 3rd day for a total of 5 shots once the last shot is taken start clomid 100mg a day for 3 weeks. thats a protocol ive read i think from pulumbo but everyone has ther ow way of using hcg....
On the cycles:
Yeah everyone is different and bodies respond differently but according to Milos, there was a french study he mentioned RXmuscle radio where he explained why it is that way. I mean the dude is living proof of it.

HCG:
Yeah I saw Dave P. saying that was the way to use it, but the other way seems to make a little more logical sense, the method of using HCG during cycle to stop it from shrinking in the first place. I have been trying to see what Milos' method is, but I can't find it.

SUCKS!

But: How has your results been?
 

baylin

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Dec 26, 2008
Messages
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hCG Usage

Hey,

I kind of need help with the hCG usage.

In a 12 week cycle like this one,

What would you recommend the hCG dosage and timing be? I want to try it on cycle for this first run with hCG to gauge it for myself.

Can it be this way:

-Week 1-12:
*250iu x twice per week = 500iu

Other Questions:

Or should I keep the hCG until I am done with the
- Anavar (Week 13-14)?
- Should it be 250iu x twice per week = 500iu (week 1-14)?

- Can I pin the hCG the same day I pin my test?

Thanks for any help you guys can offer me.
 

J_Diggs

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Registered
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Jun 1, 2010
Messages
580
Hey,

I kind of need help with the hCG usage.

In a 12 week cycle like this one,

What would you recommend the hCG dosage and timing be? I want to try it on cycle for this first run with hCG to gauge it for myself.

Can it be this way:

-Week 1-12:
*250iu x twice per week = 500iu

Other Questions:

Or should I keep the hCG until I am done with the
- Anavar (Week 13-14)?
- Should it be 250iu x twice per week = 500iu (week 1-14)?

- Can I pin the hCG the same day I pin my test?

Thanks for any help you guys can offer me.

Hey man, I got your PM but will answer here so others can chime in.

Before I get into the HCG, I need to address a few things including the duration of your orals. 14 straight weeks is a LONG time between Anavar/Winny. Not saying that it can't be done but it's a bit harsh. You mentioned you've taken dbol before but I don't see you leveraging it for a kickstart within this cycle. Does gyno hit you bad with the dbol? Also, Anavar wouldn't exactly be my choice of oral to begin a cycle with. And what's your main purpose for taking the winny? To free up test and SHBG? If so, you don't need 45mg/day to make that happen...20-25mg would be sufficient for this purpose.

The math wasn't adding up for your Anavar. Are you saying 25mg, 3 times a day = 75mg/day = 525 week. Boxing to your total of 350/wk gives 50mg/day which sounds a bit more appropriate.

If you're not front loading with anything like dbol, AND if you plan on running orals straight at moderate doses, AND plan to incorporate the Big A protocol with pushing the Var out a couple weeks beyond the last Test injection, I personally would start the Var in week 8 and then run it straight through until week 14.

As for the HCG, you could start it in week 3 and run to week 12. 250iu/twice per week; assuming you're working with a 5,000iu amp. Ideally I'd administer the day before your shot of test. If for convenience you need to pin the same day as test than no big deal. SubQ, pinched skin in the stomach. You don't want to wait too long during your cycle to start it up if you're focusing on not allowing too much shrinkage. At that dose it's much better to begin early and to be steady throughout instead of the uphill vacillation. Using it for PCT is bunk in my opinion, and the doses necessary to bring your boys back is too risky and puts too much stress on your body.

Lastly, with regard to your PCT, I'm curious what your thoughts were of just continuing the Aromasin as opposed to running Clomid at 50mg/day for 3 weeks. The last part of your cycle looks a bit funky because you stop the Aromasin in week 12, and then don't start it back up until week 15 and those are the very weeks that the staggered half-life's of test are going to be dropping and your levels of estrogen concurrently increasing. Again, personally, I'd run your aromasin at 12.5mg EOD (or ED since you are gyno prone...same here and I run at 12.5/ED) up through week 14 and then go into your 'official PCT' weeks 15-20. You could probably just taper the Nolvadex a bit more with 40mg/ED wks 15-16, 30mg/ED wk 17, 20mg/ED wk 18, 10mg/ED wk 19. Clomid could be run wks 15-17 @ 50mg/day.

Again, this is how I run and it works well for me. Most of my suggestions were simple tweaks to your cycle. The only major part that you need to reconsider is the duration of the oral. If you're obtaining regular bloodwork at 4-5 weeks intervals to make sure all is well then that would be intelligent for your current plan. If you don't think you'll do that then you should probably think that part through a bit more. Good luck.
 

baylin

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Dec 26, 2008
Messages
52
Hey man, I got your PM but will answer here so others can chime in.

Before I get into the HCG, I need to address a few things including the duration of your orals. 14 straight weeks is a LONG time between Anavar/Winny.
First off, I thank you for actually read the whole thing! I appreciate it very much. Yes, you are correct, that was a typo. I copied and paste it, but didn’t check it/pay enough attention. Thanks for also spotting that.
Another note, I can tell that you have quite a bit of knowledge as you were able to see the flaws, my plans and explain them to me.

The Winny, my purpose for taking it is as you stated, to free SHBG. And I will do as you directed. I didn’t know that 20-25 would be enough, but I am glad the dosage will be low because this means I will have more for next time! So I am glad I don’t have to use it all up.

In regards to d-bol, I am trying to keep water retention down for this cycle. Thus I am using more of Var and Winny. My goals it to lean down and I know I should be using test p, but I hate having to pin. But, I will take the Var in week 8 into consideration.

Thanks for the HCG protocol. I will use it exactly as you stated. And yes I am using the 5,000iu amp. I also will not be using it for PCT as some studies stated not to.

In regards to the PCT and aromasin, I will do EXACTLY what you recommended. I did think about the break being bad until you pointed it out and it made complete sense to do it your way. I will also run Nolvadex as you stated.

The only thing I am a little on the fence on is the Clomid. I know it should be the bases of a proper PCT, however, in my last cycle I developed cyst-acne for the first time ever. It was not too bad, but it was the first time that I had cyst-acne on my chest and back. Normally I would never break out.
BUT I will use it for this cycle and keep track on it for future use purposes. I will use it at the dose you recommended and track its effects.

I will take into consideration what you said. I will rethink the cycle a little more. The reason for switching was because it was what Milos Sarcev recommends. Milos said that keeping the body guessing would be best, so I will use it as originally designed and listen to my body. I know the Winny will be harsh on the liver and from research the Var should not be too bad.

So I think I will take a break from the Var after the Winny to let my liver recover until I start the Var up again. Therefore, I hope the 2 week break before I start up the Var again will be enough time to allow my liver to recover enough to endure the next 4 weeks of Var use.

Here is my new Cycle + PCT:

- Week 1-4:
* Enanthate 200mg twice per wk = Weekly Total (400mg wk)
* Anavar 25mg x 2/day (every 8 hours) = Weekly Total (350 wk)
* Aromasin 12.5mg EOD = Weekly Total (50mg)
* Anavar 25mg x 2/day (every 8 hours) = Weekly Total (350 wk)
* HCG 250iu twice per wk = Weekly Total (500iu wk) begins @ Week 3

- Week 5-8:
* Cypionate 200mg twice per wk = Weekly Total (400mg wk)
* Winstrol Oral 10mg x 2/day (every 8 hours) = Weekly Total (140mg wk)
* Aromasin 12.5mg EOD = Weekly Total (50mg)
* HCG 250iu twice per wk = Weekly Total (500iu wk)

- Week 9-10:
* Enanthate 200mg twice per wk = Weekly Total (400mg wk)
* Aromasin 12.5mg EOD = Weekly Total (50mg)
* HCG 250iu twice per wk = Weekly Total (500iu wk)

- Week 11-12:
* Enanthate 200mg twice per wk = Weekly Total (400mg wk)
* Anavar 25mg x 2/day (every 8 hours) = Weekly Total (350 wk)
* Aromasin 12.5mg EOD = Weekly Total (50mg)
* HCG 250iu twice per wk = Weekly Total (500iu wk)

- Week 13-14:
* Anavar 25mg x 2/day (every 8 hours) = Weekly Total (350 wk)
As BigA Recommended
* Aromasin 12.5mg EOD = Weekly Total (50mg)

- Week 15-16:
* Tamo ED 40mg = Weekly Total (280mg wk)
* Clomid ED 50mg = Weekly Total (350mg wk)
* Aromasin 25mg ED = Weekly Total (50mg)

- Week 17:
* Tamo ED 30mg = Weekly Total (280mg wk)
* Aromasin ED 25mg = Weekly Total (50mg)

- Week 18:
* Tamo ED 20mg = Weekly Total (280mg wk)
* Aromasin ED 25mg = Weekly Total (50mg)

- Week 19:
* Tamo ED 10mg = Weekly Total (280mg wk)
* Aromasin ED 12.5mg = Weekly Total (50mg)

- Week 20:
* Aromasin ED 12.5mg = Weekly Total (50mg)

Thanks for your input J_Diggs and I appreciate it!
 
Last edited:

DosXX

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Messages
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your cycle plan doesn't go well with your goals. If you're trying to gain lean muscle I would opt-out for test prop and npp with var or winstrol.
 

baylin

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your cycle plan doesn't go well with your goals. If you're trying to gain lean muscle I would opt-out for test prop and npp with var or winstrol.
Yeah I am aware of that, but Test P just requires too much pinning. I hate needles and I don't pin myself either. I have my GF pin me.

Plus, I am not trying to get ready for any shows or anything, so I am not too concern if I hold onto water.

:welcome:

But thanks for the input!
 

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