800 billion for health care..Yeah right

Tough Old Man · Nov 23, 2009

These fuckhead lie to us everyday in regards to how many jobs they have saved and created..You really think they are going to tell any of us the truth about how much health care is going to cost if it passes...

Just wait and see, it will only cost 800 billion and we the people will paying the difference in health care premiums..Jesus I can't wait and see how much it going to cost next yr to get BLOOD WORK done.

God I only hope this fucking health care bill finds it's way to the toilet.

dgarr21 · Nov 23, 2009

It is actually literally over a trillion once u get past the liberal nancy pelosi joe biden BS. Foxnews did a report on it with senators opposed to it. It seems though the people in power (dems) do not care what others say they will just PUSH it through and all the garbage it has. Kind of scares me to see how much we as a nation our going into debt TRILLIONS! No one seems to bat a eye at all.

HeavyHands · Nov 23, 2009

Over 800 million. The costs of this bill are mind-boggling. All in the name of more EQUALITY while sacrificing EFFICIENCY. Economists are in an uproar over the bill and have been picking it apart for some time now (check out what Mankiw has to say)

mojo jojo · Nov 23, 2009

You may be right and this estimate may be wrong but hopefully it is at least in the ballpark and if it is not well then at very least the American public should be getting something for that money.

Now if you want to talk about lying or gross incompetence by our government then take a look at the Iraq war. The first estimates for rebuilding Iraq from the Bush team was 1.9 Billion. Current estimates of the total cost of the Iraq war are now 700 Billion. If you only consider half of that as rebuilding costs then that means they were off by 36,800%.

On the bright side the estimate for healthcare can't be off by as much as rebuilding Iraq only for the reason that I believe that is more then is spent on healthcare by the entire world in total. Ok maybe that isn't much of a bright side but how about if you or a loved one loose their job and insurance then fall ill you will be covered and not have to go into serious debt or declare bankruptcy. That sounds positive. Its better then anything I've seen come from the war in Iraq.

dgarr21 · Nov 23, 2009

mojo jojo said:
You may be right and this estimate may be wrong but hopefully it is at least in the ballpark and if it is not well then at very least the American public should be getting something for that money.

Now if you want to talk about lying or gross incompetence by our government then take a look at the Iraq war. The first estimates for rebuilding Iraq from the Bush team was 1.9 Billion. Current estimates of the total cost of the Iraq war are now 700 Billion. If you only consider half of that as rebuilding costs then that means they were off by 36,800%.

On the bright side the estimate for healthcare can't be off by as much as rebuilding Iraq only for the reason that I believe that is more then is spent on healthcare by the entire world in total. Ok maybe that isn't much of a bright side but how about if you or a loved one loose their job and insurance then fall ill you will be covered and not have to go into serious debt or declare bankruptcy. That sounds positive. Its better then anything I've seen come from the war in Iraq.

Brother i respect your thoughts on the healthcare about the families losing their jobs and getting sick, BUT Obama has put us in trillions of dollars in debt already! Plus i dont care about the war in iraq we should pull out. Those fucktards over there are extremely messed up in the head in the middle east (NOT TALKING ABOUT OUR SOLDIDERS, TALKING ABOUT THE IRAQ PEOPLE). The war on terrorism is the same as the war on drugs its a never ending battle and this one will bankrupt us like we bankrupted the soviet union in the cold war. No other countries are helping us out near as much as we our doing over there. Plus our methods of detaining these cowards once we catch them is so messed up that out of 80,000 65,000 or more got off and released just to shot back at our troops the next day laughing at us knowing if they get caught again in a few weeks they will be released again. Until we change our tactics we can not win this war. They have no rules except cause chaos chaos chaos. We are trying to help to many people that dont want help OR our to cowardly to help us help them!

LOL sorry u can see my views on the war get me upset. rant over

Tough Old Man · Nov 23, 2009

All I can say is I'll bet health care premiums next yr will cost you more then your grocery bill..Now that's pathetic...I know of at least 6 people that needs to get into a plane together and fly into the bermuda triangle and it disappear forever.

mojo jojo · Nov 23, 2009

Tough Old Man said:
All I can say is I'll bet health care premiums next yr will cost you more then your grocery bill..Now that's pathetic...I know of at least 6 people that needs to get into a plane together and fly into the bermuda triangle and it disappear forever.

Dude where are you getting your health insurance because my family's already costs more then our grocery bill? The COBRA cost of my family's insurance is $1,100 a month for a Cigna POS plan. My wife's work covers $780 of that and then the remaining $320 is taken out of her paycheck. Even though we only pay $320 out of pocket the plan still actually costs $1,100. What type of plan do you have? Is it a catastrophic plan or one with a high deductible? I get the feeling we are not comparing apples to apples here.

I hope 2 of those 6 people on that plane of yours are Bush and Cheney. You may be afraid that the current administration is going to mess up our country even more but Bush and Cheney actually already messed it up. They have earned 2 seats easily.

mojo jojo · Nov 23, 2009

dgarr21 said:
Brother i respect your thoughts on the healthcare about the families losing their jobs and getting sick, BUT Obama has put us in trillions of dollars in debt already! Plus i dont care about the war in iraq we should pull out. Those fucktards over there are extremely messed up in the head in the middle east (NOT TALKING ABOUT OUR SOLDIDERS, TALKING ABOUT THE IRAQ PEOPLE). The war on terrorism is the same as the war on drugs its a never ending battle and this one will bankrupt us like we bankrupted the soviet union in the cold war. No other countries are helping us out near as much as we our doing over there. Plus our methods of detaining these cowards once we catch them is so messed up that out of 80,000 65,000 or more got off and released just to shot back at our troops the next day laughing at us knowing if they get caught again in a few weeks they will be released again. Until we change our tactics we can not win this war. They have no rules except cause chaos chaos chaos. We are trying to help to many people that dont want help OR our to cowardly to help us help them!

LOL sorry u can see my views on the war get me upset. rant over

The point I was trying to make was that Bush already put us in Trillions of debt. He was the first person ever to cut taxes in a time of war. And after all of that we the people got nothing for our money. I just don't understand how people can be so up in arms saying Democrats are going to put us in debt when the Republicans just did the same thing. What does it only count when the side you don't like does it? And now the very same people who already put us in debt are saying they will save the USA from debt? I am just not buying it. I supported Republicans until the fucked the American people over. So now I am giving the Democrats a chance. Unfortunately I have found it seems that given enough time both sides will let you down in the eventually.

Tough Old Man · Nov 23, 2009

mojo jojo said:
Dude where are you getting your health insurance because my family's already costs more then our grocery bill? The COBRA cost of my family's insurance is $1,100 a month for a Cigna POS plan. My wife's work covers $780 of that and then the remaining $320 is taken out of her paycheck. Even though we only pay $320 out of pocket the plan still actually costs $1,100. What type of plan do you have? Is it a catastrophic plan or one with a high deductible? I get the feeling we are not comparing apples to apples here.

I hope 2 of those 6 people on that plane of yours are Bush and Cheney. You may be afraid that the current administration is going to mess up our country even more but Bush and Cheney actually already messed it up. They have earned 2 seats easily.

I'm talking about out of pocket expense not what your employer pays into it..So $320 a month is your part.... I'll bet your grocery bill is higher then that and if it's not, don't look into putting on any size in the near future.. Wait until next yr when your part is higher then your grocery bill if this fucking thing passes.

As for Bush and Cheney, why would I wish that upon them two who have no involvement in this health care bill..How about Obama, Deeds, Pelosi, Dobbs, Frank and that idiot vice president Biden who just rambles on all the time..

Here's what I think about Cheney..He should go out hunting again, but this time take them 5 terrorist from 9-11 with him..Then those 5 will miss their court date in N.Y. saving the tax payers money~!

Dado5 · Nov 24, 2009

I’m not really following this that much but i did hear on the radio this morning that if this new healthcare bill passes we will start paying for it immediately but program will start in 6 years? Is this true?

machola · Nov 24, 2009

i'm curious to see how this changes health care in America. time will tell. and to add to the politics, democrats and republicans are both equally incompetent. equally wasteful with our money, the first bailout was pushed by the republicans. obama is fighting the same war as bush so we can't criticize bush on an unjust war without giving the same blame to obama. both parties are to blame. none is better than the other. i think its funny how people will defend one party and criticize the other.

LEX · Nov 24, 2009

machola said:
i'm curious to see how this changes health care in America. time will tell. and to add to the politics, democrats and republicans are both equally incompetent. equally wasteful with our money, the first bailout was pushed by the republicans. obama is fighting the same war as bush so we can't criticize bush on an unjust war without giving the same blame to obama. both parties are to blame. none is better than the other. i think its funny how people will defend one party and criticize the other.

couple thoughts...know a friend in Canada that has had a numb leg for 4 months and wont have spine surgery he needs for another 6....he can barely walk...oh but its free.....so my taxes go up and I get worse coverage than I have now? perfect sounds fair to me.

next I happen to work with surgeons... very bright driven people that expect to be paid very highly for the sacrifices they made to get there...and rightly so..when that payday is gone what type of people are going to be our neurosurgeons in the next 15 years...think about it..are the best and brightest going to go where they can be compensated correctly?

like someone else mentioned lets cut bait in Iraq ....then torte reform....shit those two alone would be billions and billions....

hawkmoon · Nov 24, 2009

I'm really hoping America gets its health care sorted out, and Obama is the best man so far to do it.

One of the reasons we moved to Japan was the problems with health care in the US. My daughter has severe allergies and atopic eczema. She had two one-week stays in Boston Children's Hospital when she was 6 months old. The bill before insurance was $11k each. $22k in three months... if I had lost my job like so many around me...

Here in Japan she is covered 100% (as in totally free) until she is 7. 17 if she lived in Tokyo. It is a single-payer system. Even if I had no job she woudl be covered (as would I).

Here you can see any doctor you want on the same day, or go to a private specialist and pay out of pocket if so inclined. Medical care here is very good, but you don't see modern art in the hospital lobbies or lots of Porsches in the parking lot because the Japanese don't treat healthcare as a for-profit industry.

LATS · Nov 24, 2009

LOOK.. HERE IS THE DEAL.. IT MATTERS NOT WHETEHR YOU ARE A DEMO OR REPUB.. LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE..ONE FACT IS THIS....BUSH AINT IN OFFICE ANY MORE.. obama must take ownership of what is happening.. he has racked up enormous costs in the last 10 months.. all on his watch.. not bush.. his watch.. the stimulus was a bomb.. he said unemployment, if the stimulus was passed, would not exceed 8%.. well we are close to 11%.. on his watch.. many demos admit that the stimulus was a bomb.. yet still funnel out the money for something that is not working..

as for the insurance.. if the bill passes.. i dont think it will based on the fact that many demos are in areas that are against it and would like to keep their jobs.. but if it does it will be so watered down that it will not be worth the expense that it will cost... it will be typical "symbolism over substance" just to say they passed a bill.. it will have little effect.. the repubs introduced a bill that allowed people to purchase government insurance (the same the senators ect have) that would not effect insurance as a whole.. but just allow those that dont have insurance the chance to get affordable coverage.. demos shot it down... we already have a system that allows anyone to walk into a emergency room and get care at tax payers expense.. but that is not good enough for the demos..

a guy i work with has a aunt that is admissions officer in MAYO CLINIC.. over 40% of who she sees is of canadian citizenship.. why are they coming here? well, they dont want to wait for treatment in canada.. the wait for serious illness treatment is very long (welcome to government health care).. many dont have that long.. so they come here.. why again? well it is widely known that we have the best health care system in the world.. the demos dont even deny that.. but they wish to dismantle it.. so once again, over 70% of people in the usa (by all polls) are happy with their health insurance.. so the demos, in their infinite wisdom, want to take that away from the majority because the minority are not happy.. only a demo

.. the government bankrupts "cash for clunkers" in teh first week and has to funnel money from other resources to it to keep it running.. and some gullible people actually believe they can run health care for the whole us of a... good luck..

Phidias · Nov 24, 2009

LATS said:
well it is widely known that we have the best health care system in the world..

What do you exactly mean by "best"?

Cause if you ask most Europeans, whatever the country, they'll easily say that the US have the WORST health care sytem... as in the most unfair - you get a chance of being treated only if you have money... poor you can die...

DicedSix81 · Nov 24, 2009

LATS said:
LOOK.. HERE IS THE DEAL.. IT MATTERS NOT WHETEHR YOU ARE A DEMO OR REPUB.. LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE..ONE FACT IS THIS....BUSH AINT IN OFFICE ANY MORE.. obama must take ownership of what is happening.. he has racked up enormous costs in the last 10 months.. all on his watch.. not bush.. his watch.. the stimulus was a bomb.. he said unemployment, if the stimulus was passed, would not exceed 8%.. well we are close to 11%.. on his watch.. many demos admit that the stimulus was a bomb.. yet still funnel out the money for something that is not working..

as for the insurance.. if the bill passes.. i dont think it will based on the fact that many demos are in areas that are against it and would like to keep their jobs.. but if it does it will be so watered down that it will not be worth the expense that it will cost... it will be typical "symbolism over substance" just to say they passed a bill.. it will have little effect.. the repubs introduced a bill that allowed people to purchase government insurance (the same the senators ect have) that would not effect insurance as a whole.. but just allow those that dont have insurance the chance to get affordable coverage.. demos shot it down... we already have a system that allows anyone to walk into a emergency room and get care at tax payers expense.. but that is not good enough for the demos..

a guy i work with has a aunt that is admissions officer in MAYO CLINIC.. over 40% of who she sees is of canadian citizenship.. why are they coming here? well, they dont want to wait for treatment in canada.. the wait for serious illness treatment is very long (welcome to government health care).. many dont have that long.. so they come here.. why again? well it is widely known that we have the best health care system in the world.. the demos dont even deny that.. but they wish to dismantle it.. so once again, over 70% of people in the usa (by all polls) are happy with their health insurance.. so the demos, in their infinite wisdom, want to take that away from the majority because the minority are not happy.. only a demo .. the government bankrupts "cash for clunkers" in teh first week and has to funnel money from other resources to it to keep it running.. and some gullible people actually believe they can run health care for the whole us of a... good luck..

Truer words have never been spoken....

hawkmoon · Nov 24, 2009

Phidias said:
What do you exactly mean by "best"?

Cause if you ask most Europeans, whatever the country, they'll easily say that the US have the WORST health care sytem... as in the most unfair - you get a chance of being treated only if you have money... poor you can die...

Yes. This.

If you can't get care, it's not very good (for you).
When I tried to get my daughter in to see specialists at Boston Children's we were told there was a 6 month wait. This was even after the local doc (a very good one too, and a fellow at Children's) said she was beyond his abilities and made personal pleas on our behalf.

The only way we got our daughter in was via the emergency room door after she had contracted a bacterial infection after her skin got so bad. She looked like her face had been burned. Suddenly we got attention. Then after spending two days in the children's ICU ward the only way we got the doctors to actually see us was to threaten to leave. Even our nurse was furious and almost crying about how the doctors were treating us. This is regarded as perhaps the "best" hospital for children in the world...

LATS · Nov 24, 2009

phidas.. that is not true.. they can not turn away hardship cases.. we have a guy who has prostate cancer at my work.. no insurance.. he is constantly going to barnes hospital (one of the best hospitals in the usa) a two hour drive for his treatments.. they are subsidized by the tax payers and added costs to our insurance.. i worked for Woodman accident and life for a few years.. if you dont have insurance you are still treated.. ask any illegal aliens lol.. they get pre natle care and coverage and they dont even live here legally...

my home town used to host the largest skydiving convention in the usa.. guy from australia hits the ground.. shatters both legs.. in hospital for quite a while.. multiple surgeries.. re hab.. what does he pay before going back to australia.. nothing.. hardship case...

scrapper13 · Nov 24, 2009

whatever your political views the cold hard fact is that in four years obama will double the national debt...the same amount of debt in 4 years as in the past 30+ combined???...something isnt right