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AAS for Injury

mav6

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I suppose I should introduce myself first. I'm 26, I've been a competitive athlete since I was in grade school. At my best, I played Junior B hockey, and I've been involved in coaching football and hockey strength and conditioning programs since I was 15. I've spent the last 3 years as my own boss running conditioning camps for various teams.

I realize this is a little different than probably most of the athletes here, but my training is primarily sprint work, gymnastics, and Olympic weightlifting. I find this combination of modalities allows me to maintain the strength, flexibility, and cardiovascular endurance I need as I am pursuing a career in the military.

Recently, I suffered a fairly severe lisfranc injury. My 2nd metatarsal basically shattered since it fractured in at least 10 places tearing my lisfranc as a result. I also fractured the 4th metatarsal which ended up tearing the ATF. I also have some minor muscle tears in my infra spinatus and supra spinatus muscles which I have just ignored and pushed through for too long.

I have completed 5 weeks of taking Ipamorelin and Mod GRF 1-29 at a dosage of 100mcg each 3 times a day. To be honest, I have not noticed or "felt" any improvement or difference from the GH increase. Perhaps this is a result of the fact that I am in my 20s and likely have fairly high GH production anyways.

I am considering using AAS to aid in my healing. I'm not interested in bulking up or getting ripped, just jump starting some healing. I've done my best to educate myself quickly, but I'm not fully confident in my knowledge.

I feel that Anavar would be a good choice for me because I have read research studies where it was used successfully to treat burns and muscle injuries. It is also a milder AAS, which makes me feel more comfortable since I have never used an AAS before, so this would be my first cycle ever. I had considered Winstrol initially, but some of the running backs I've worked with have complained that Winstrol made them too tight and led to hamstring problems for them, so as a sprinter, I would try to avoid that.

My tentative plan is:
1 bottle of 100 tablets of 10mg Anavar
I plan to take 40mg of Anavar for 25 days.
At the end of the 25 days, I plan to start Primordial Performance's TRS and Novedex XT for 30 days.

Like I said, my goal is just to try to jump start the healing process. The ortho has explained to me that ligaments and tendons tend to be very slow to heal. However, my concern is that my normal testosterone level is about 400 ng/dl (sometimes a little lower, sometimes a little higher, about +/- 20), and my Free T is 10.0. My concern is that I would not want to take something that could permanently lower my normal T levels. I read on the Elite Fitness forums that Clomid and Novaldex can actually delay the return of natural T production, so I felt that PP's TRS and Novedex would mitigate that issue.

So, that's the best plan I've come up with thus far. There seems to be alot of information on the internet about using AAS for muscle building, but not nearly as much in terms of injury treatment. I'm very open to any criticism, advice, and tweaking of my planned course of action. Even if someone might say, "this won't work, and you're barking up the wrong tree." I appreciate all input. Thanks guys.
 

ajdos

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If you are trying to heal ligaments and tendons a nandrolone like deca or npp seems like a better choice- science has at least backed up the healing quality with them.
 

viveutvivas

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However, my concern is that my normal testosterone level is about 400 ng/dl (sometimes a little lower, sometimes a little higher, about +/- 20), and my Free T is 10.0. My concern is that I would not want to take something that could permanently lower my normal T levels. I read on the Elite Fitness forums that Clomid and Novaldex can actually delay the return of natural T production, so I felt that PP's TRS and Novedex would mitigate that issue.
With your low T levels, you may be a candidate for TRT.

As for the claim that Clomid and Nolvadex delay return of natural T production, I believe this is incorrect.

By the way, here is an interesting case study on muscle recovery in an athlete.
Int J Sports Med. 1995 Aug;16(6):413-7.
Hypogonadism as a cause of recurrent muscle injury in a high level soccer player. A case report.

Naessens G, De Slypere JP, Dijs H, Driessens M.

Department of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, University Hospital Antwerp, Edegem, Belgium.
Abstract

Hypogonadotropic hypogonadism is a well known entity in highly trained female athletes. In male sportsmen, resting testosterone levels may be lowered especially in well endurance trained athletes and during high intensity training periods, frequently in combination with excessive weight reduction. However, only few reports illustrate a clinical pathology related to this state. In this report, where we present a case of a high level soccer player with recurrent muscle injuries over several years, hypogonadism was caused by sports activity together with an impaired testicular function (cryptorchidy). Clinical findings included testicular maldevelopment, decreased libido, infertility and a high incidence of muscle strains and delayed post-exercise soreness in mainly eccentric exercised muscle groups. Laboratory findings showed abnormally lowered resting testosterone values, most prominent during training periods, and an unfavourable testosterone/cortisol ratio during recuperation after exercise. With respect to treatment of the problem, neither any form of physical therapy nor rehabilitation program could give long lasting benefit. Using tamoxifen, an anti-oestrogenic drug, which stimulates LH and FSH production, we not only observed normal physiological resting testosterone values and a restoration of the testosterone/cortisol ratio after exercise, but our patient also experienced a higher sexual drive, well being and a spectacular decrease in the muscle injury rate. Although this patient was not a highly endurance trained athlete, we assume that a chronic anabolic/catabolic hormone imbalance may be of greater clinical importance in sports activity based on eccentric and explosive muscle work.
 

mav6

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Thanks guys!

If you are trying to heal ligaments and tendons a nandrolone like deca or npp seems like a better choice- science has at least backed up the healing quality with them.
Actually, deca was originally my first choice because everyone I talked to told me how great it was for joints, but then I found out that you can still test positive for up to a year after stopping deca, and I felt that an oral steroid would be a better choice because it leaves your system faster.

viveutvivas, I had a doc recommend I start TRT, but that would make me medically disqualified for military service, so I declined it.

That's a very interesting study you posted though, I wonder what the mechanism of action is that causes the reduction in T. Is it simply reduced production, increased aromatization, or perhaps increased cortisol levels may have a "toxic" effect on the gonads? I have never considered the idea of running Novaldex solo, but if I'm interpreting that study correctly, an aromatase inhibitor might do the same thing if the benefit is derived from tamoxifen blocking estrogen. Very interesting article, good post.
 

mav6

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With your low T levels, you may be a candidate for TRT.

As for the claim that Clomid and Nolvadex delay return of natural T production, I believe this is incorrect.

By the way, here is an interesting case study on muscle recovery in an athlete.
viveutvivas, I have been thinking alot, possibly too much, about that study you posted. Is it common for people to run tamoxifen solo? Or do you think that perhaps the soccer players in the study had previously used steroids which may have caused a certain level of shut down that they never recovered from?

Now the little wheels in my brain are really spinning.
 

viveutvivas

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viveutvivas, I have been thinking alot, possibly too much, about that study you posted. Is it common for people to run tamoxifen solo? Or do you think that perhaps the soccer players in the study had previously used steroids which may have caused a certain level of shut down that they never recovered from?
I don't know if it is common to run Nolva solo.

As for low T in athletes, I think it must be something to do with the intense training. I doubt steroids. For example, here is a study in elite rowers finding low testosterone.

If you pubmed it and look at some of the related studies, there are quite a few on hormonal responses to training stress.

Int J Sports Med. 2008 Oct;29(10):803-7. Epub 2008 Apr 9.
Testosterone and BMD in elite male lightweight rowers.

Vinther A, Kanstrup IL, Christiansen E, Ekdahl C, Aagaard P.

Department Q, Herlev Hospital, Herlev, Denmark. [email protected]
Abstract

The purpose of the present study was to investigate if a relationship between BMD and testosterone levels could be identified in elite male lightweight rowers. Thirteen male lightweight national team rowers had their BMD measured in a DEXA scanner. Plasma concentrations of total testosterone (TT), free testosterone (FT), dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and additional parameters related to bone metabolism were measured. Plasma concentrations of TT, FT and DHT were in the lower part of the normal range, while BMD was close to or above normal. BMD of total body and L2 - L4 were correlated to years of training (r (s): 0.59, p = 0.034 and r (s): 0.73, p = 0.005) and to TT (r (s): 0.56, p = 0.046 and rs: 0.63, p = 0.021). Moreover, L2 - L4 BMD was correlated to FT (r (s): 0.62, p = 0.024). After adjusting for years of training, partial correlation analysis showed a significant correlation between L2 - L4 BMD and TT (r (s): 0.61, p < 0.05). BMD appears to be influenced by both testosterone levels and years of training in elite male lightweight rowers. The relatively high BMD and low testosterone levels indicate that the mechanical loading induced by rowing is more important to BMD than testosterone levels. Prospective investigations are needed to elucidate potential causal relationships.
 

mav6

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I don't know if it is common to run Nolva solo.

As for low T in athletes, I think it must be something to do with the intense training. I doubt steroids. For example, here is a study in elite rowers finding low testosterone.

If you pubmed it and look at some of the related studies, there are quite a few on hormonal responses to training stress.
I know I'm at risk for saying something really stupid here, but if all these elite athletes have low testosterone as a result of training stress, then I almost have to wonder, how important is testosterone to athletic performance? I know that elevated testosterone levels definitely help when trying to put on slabs of muscle, but I'm beginning to wonder if your testosterone level doesn't really matter as far as athletic performance. I mean, after all, there are some female athletes out there (shot put, hammer throw, weightlifting) who are scary strong for girls.

Off hand, I would assume that the glucocorticoid release from intense training would lower T levels temporarily, but it seems like there must be more going on for elite athletes to have long term testosterone reduction.
 

mav6

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I am not sure that they do.
Hmmm, good point, perhaps across the board this isn't common, but I would assume that in individuals who train intensely and for long periods of time such as triathletes, a drop in testosterone is not unusual, so really I guess what I'm wondering here is is testosterone really that important to athletic performance is there some other mechanism like protein synthesis or fat mobilization that is truly the marker of high levels of athleticism.

In any case, would simply raising your testosterone cause you to heal faster? Or is there something more important like raising your nitrogen balance?
 

mav6

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Haha... Ok, well, maybe I'm over generalizing.

I'll just focus on me. My cortisol level is 24 ug/dl which I'm told is extremely high. Also my potassium levels are out of whack as is my cholesterol, white blood cells, platelets, MPV, etc. My doc says they're all symptomatic of overtraining.

So, with that in mind, for my particular case, would I benefit more from doing an AAS like Anavar to try to boost some collagen synthesis and repair some damaged tissues, or would I benefit more from taking a SERM like toremifene, Nolva, or Clomid?

I swear I feel like the more I learn, the less I know.
 

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