• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
intex
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
PM-Ace-Labs
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
sunrise2
PHARMAHGH1
kinglab
ganabol2
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
boslabs1
granabolic1
napsgear-210x65
monster210x65
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
DeFiant
UGFREAK-banner-PM
STADAPM
yms-GIF-210x65-SB
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
wuhan2
dpharma
marathon
zzsttmy
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
azteca
crewguru
advertise1x
advertise1x
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

Adverse health contitions brought about from AAS use

Drift Wood

Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 2, 2009
Messages
193
As I read through the forums here and elsewhere I wonder how many of us, at least here on this board, have ended up with some sort of less than positive health condition which was most likely brought about by AAS usage? Back in 2001 I was diagosed with "Borderline fatty liver disease". Given that my diet at the time was increadibly clean and given that I don't drink at all my doctor concluded that my liver condition must have been brought about by gear usage.

So my question is: how many of us, or people we personally know, have ended up with a condition brought about by gear usage. It's f'ing crazy... I know that using gear is ultimately not good for me, especially orals, yet I do it anyways... I'm 37... maybe I'll quit when I hit 40 (GH doesn't count :D)
 
Must have been caused by? I love how some of these docs just go for the first thing that they can blame it on. Fatty liver can be caused by gaining and losing weight rapidly and also by high blood triglycerides and some other things that prob don't apply to you. Doubtful it was caused by steroid usage.
 
Last edited:
As I read through the forums here and elsewhere I wonder how many of us, at least here on this board, have ended up with some sort of less than positive health condition which was most likely brought about by AAS usage? Back in 2001 I was diagosed with "Borderline fatty liver disease". Given that my diet at the time was increadibly clean and given that I don't drink at all my doctor concluded that my liver condition must have been brought about by gear usage.

Most general medical practitioners don't know what they are talking about and your doctor appears to be one of those.

Compared to insulin resistance, drugs are a relatively uncommon
cause of NAFLD and NASH. A number of drugs have been associated
with NASH (Table 55-2), many of which are identified in case
reports. Such single cases or small case series of drug-induced
NASH cannot establish with certainty that NASH was not a
pre-existing disorder before the drug or if the drug in question exacerbated
underlying insulin resistance, leading to the development of
NASH by mechanisms common to most patients.
Boyer et al (2006) Hepatology Volume I (Ch. 55)

I have reproduced Table 55-2 as an attachment. Notice that AAS are not mentioned but Tamoxifen is.

C17 alpha-alkylated AAS can cause liver problems but NAFLD (Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease) is not one of them. Alcohol has its very own disease: Alcoholic Liver Disease and it is more common than AAS-induced liver injury but there is no hysteria about this.
 

Attachments

  • nafld.jpg
    nafld.jpg
    154.7 KB · Views: 611
Must have been caused by? I love how some of these docs just go for the first thing that they can blame it on. Fatty liver can be caused by gaining and losing weight rapidly and also by high blood triglycerides and some other things that prob don't apply to you. Doubtful it was caused by steroid usage.

here... let me tell you a little story that happened to me this past week.
my whole family found out that i use gear... so they called me up and wanted to sit like an intervention kind of thing... I asked them to say what they had to say and then i'll speak... ofcourse, all of them (with no exceptions) kept telling me that i'm killing myself with gear usage (some of my syblings and my father told me that they are positive i know what i'm doing, but still i shouldn't ignore the negative effects)... it was a loooong talk (i have 3 other brothers and 2 sisters)... then i said "are you done?" they said yes... i took them one by one...

person 1... you have a fatty liver, the doctors say you won't live that long if you don't take care of it and fast, you are clinically obese weighing in at 180 lbs while being 5'0 yet you still believe you are healthy and that your eating habbits are best.

person 2... you have epilepsy and really awful cholesterol and doctors suggested you be put on lipitor... yet you do nothing at all despite the fact that i keep sending you research on ways to fix it.

person 3... you have meningitis and we all know what it was caused by. i carried you to the hospital while you were yelling and screaming and wishing you were dead... yet you still do the same shit that caused it and you don't think of stopping

person 4... you have had 90% of your thyroid removed and your ribcage is concaved inwards instead of outwards... what are you doing to ensure you live a healthy life?

person 5... you have multiple sclurosis... and yet you still believe it is caused by drinking a can or two of diet pepsi every now and then because the doctor said so

person 6... you have severe asthma and your nose swells up to 4 times it's size randomly from time to time for a couple of days and doctors can't explain why.

person 7... you have never had an illness in your life... you are 60 years old and a heavy drinker with perfect blood work and no problems at all... people who know you think you are 40 years old yet you smoke and drink all the time...

now tell me... i haven't had a disease or serious illness yet and i'm almost 30... the last time i went to a doctor was 4 years ago so i could get my tonsils removed and the son of a bitch still didn't want to take them out cuz i had to get the infection atleast 4 times a year and have to get labs to confirm they are infections every time... now tell me... genetically... who am i similar to?
and please... answer me truthfully... if i had any of the disease you guys had after i started using steroids... what would the doctors blame it on?
you got that right... and you'd believe it... now... please stop annoying me about this shit when i should be the one annoying you about your shit.



fuck... that was long... but i think you get my point... most of us are genetically inclined to have a disease of some sort (some severe, some not)... if you pick your nose often enough, the docs will blame your disease on that.
 
Too many doctors parrot media material or "facts" that are out of date.

The media won't raise a turdstorm over liquor, over alcohol related health problems. Those damn beer commercials are a gold mine. I'm simplifying it of course, but it's running along those lines. I don't see any ads for Dbol during NBA Championships though. (Well, paid ads. I can see how someone could run with that)

Hey, we still make our own choices in a lot of areas. How far we're going to be pushed before pushing back, hard, remains to be seen.

Me? Drink? Me? Possible AAS use?

Milk is for babies. Arnold drinks beer.
 
here... let me tell you a little story that happened to me this past week.
my whole family found out that i use gear... so they called me up and wanted to sit like an intervention kind of thing... I asked them to say what they had to say and then i'll speak... ofcourse, all of them (with no exceptions) kept telling me that i'm killing myself with gear usage (some of my syblings and my father told me that they are positive i know what i'm doing, but still i shouldn't ignore the negative effects)... it was a loooong talk (i have 3 other brothers and 2 sisters)... then i said "are you done?" they said yes... i took them one by one...

person 1... you have a fatty liver, the doctors say you won't live that long if you don't take care of it and fast, you are clinically obese weighing in at 180 lbs while being 5'0 yet you still believe you are healthy and that your eating habbits are best.

person 2... you have epilepsy and really awful cholesterol and doctors suggested you be put on lipitor... yet you do nothing at all despite the fact that i keep sending you research on ways to fix it.

person 3... you have meningitis and we all know what it was caused by. i carried you to the hospital while you were yelling and screaming and wishing you were dead... yet you still do the same shit that caused it and you don't think of stopping

person 4... you have had 90% of your thyroid removed and your ribcage is concaved inwards instead of outwards... what are you doing to ensure you live a healthy life?

person 5... you have multiple sclurosis... and yet you still believe it is caused by drinking a can or two of diet pepsi every now and then because the doctor said so

person 6... you have severe asthma and your nose swells up to 4 times it's size randomly from time to time for a couple of days and doctors can't explain why.

person 7... you have never had an illness in your life... you are 60 years old and a heavy drinker with perfect blood work and no problems at all... people who know you think you are 40 years old yet you smoke and drink all the time...

now tell me... i haven't had a disease or serious illness yet and i'm almost 30... the last time i went to a doctor was 4 years ago so i could get my tonsils removed and the son of a bitch still didn't want to take them out cuz i had to get the infection atleast 4 times a year and have to get labs to confirm they are infections every time... now tell me... genetically... who am i similar to?
and please... answer me truthfully... if i had any of the disease you guys had after i started using steroids... what would the doctors blame it on?
you got that right... and you'd believe it... now... please stop annoying me about this shit when i should be the one annoying you about your shit.



fuck... that was long... but i think you get my point... most of us are genetically inclined to have a disease of some sort (some severe, some not)... if you pick your nose often enough, the docs will blame your disease on that.

Hahaha I wish I could have been a fly on the wall. Too bad you didn't video that. On a serious note you are right, no matter what you end up getting one day it will be blamed on steroids. If I were you I would never tell a Dr what I was doing. It only makes them stop looking for what really might be causing you the problem you may be having at the time. Thanks for sharing.
 
Hahaha I wish I could have been a fly on the wall. Too bad you didn't video that. On a serious note you are right, no matter what you end up getting one day it will be blamed on steroids. If I were you I would never tell a Dr what I was doing. It only makes them stop looking for what really might be causing you the problem you may be having at the time. Thanks for sharing.

I usually get throat infection cuz my tonsils were shot to shit since i was 13...let me explain something ehre... medical insurance here is awesome but the doctors are the ones who are corrupt... it's not like in the states... the companies insure their employees on a discount to a certain hospital (let's say the company tells hospital A "our employees can only visit your hospital... so we get you more customers"... the hospital accepts at a discount rate)... now, what does the hospital do? it tells doctors to tell patients that they don't need minor surgeries and try to get the patients to just go around the hospital for tests and shit (X-rays, CTscans, MRIs... etc) where the company gets milked without really tackling the problem...

aaaaaaaaaaaaaanway... went to the doctor 4 years ago with a throat infection cuz i wanted to tell him i want them to be removed (everything is otc here... the first couple of years when i was a teen i used to go to the doc and he'd prescribe anti-biotics... so i got fed up of going and waiting 4 hours at the hospital for the same thing and just did it on my own)... so, i told him "look, i've been getting throat infections 3-4 times a year for the past 12 years... i want them removed"... he said "how do you know it's an infection?? it might be allergies"... so i opened up my mouth and told him "allergies don't give you white puss covering your tonsils"... so he said "we can't be sure just by looking... i need to get a swab, take them to the lab and you should come back in 3 days... here's some paracetamol for now and some pseudo"... oh, and he blamed me getting an infection on my smoking habbits.
so, 3 days later... i'm there with a 39.5C temperature feeling like i'm gonna die from not using the antibiotics... wait about 6 hours to see the fucker and when i do he looks at the files and says "hmmmm... seems like you had a bad infection... let me take a look... hmmmm... it got much worse... but don't worry... here's a prescription..." he thought i was a retard... i usually take 500 mg of amoxicilan 3 times per day for 4-5 days and it's gone... the prescription he gave me was 4500 mg per day of amoxicilan for 7 days...

then they tell you antibiotics are bad for you... unless a doctor gives you a fucking overdose... then they're ok :)

and the good doctors... they're as funny as hell...
went to the head of urology... he was Iraqi... (for those who don't know... whenever you see an Iraqi working a high end job... HE'S A GENIUS AND GOOD AT IT!!!)... so I was pretty shaky asking him (when i first started using gear) and i said "I'd like to get a blood test... make sure everyhting is ok"... he said "WHY??? because of the drugs???" i immediately said "what drugs?!?!?!?!?!" so he laughed and said "look son... you're fine... it's all hype. the things we prescribe will kill ya faster than you can imagine... that's why i don't like to give people anything without really needing to... go have fun and don't worry"

:D .... he underplayed it a bit, but the guy was pretty cool :D
 
Last edited:
Most general medical practitioners don't know what they are talking about and your doctor appears to be one of those.



I have reproduced Table 55-2 as an attachment. Notice that AAS are not mentioned but Tamoxifen is.

C17 alpha-alkylated AAS can cause liver problems but NAFLD (Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease) is not one of them. Alcohol has its very own disease: Alcoholic Liver Disease and it is more common than AAS-induced liver injury but there is no hysteria about this.

Damn, and I thought I knew everything. The text I have on Liver Disease (Medical Diagnosis 2007) lists as a cause of Fatty liver: drugs/toxins... I went on to assume, or rather presume, that AAS would fall into that category. From your info it looks as though I was wrong. Thank you for your much appreciated input. Up until just now I was so sure that I have been systematically destroying my liver for the last 10 years. Also: do you have the source where that info came from. I'd like to check it out. I'm pretty passionate about where informatin comes from. Thanks.

As for my doctor: he's actually a great guy. I've given him several articles on AAS and he reads them and then during my next visit we discuss them. He's an internist rather than a GP so he's an additional year of training beyond that of a GP. I've actually got an article from an academic peer reviewed journal discussing the role doctors can play in the safe AAS usage by patients. If I can find the link I'll post it. Basically it encouraged doctors to realize that their patients will do whatever they want and that their role should be supportive and that they shoud monitor their patients wellness...

Buselmo: you bro have one heck of a family. Who is the other healthy person??? I'm guessing it's your dad???
 
Last edited:
do you have the source where that info came from. I'd like to check it out. I'm pretty passionate about where informatin comes from. Thanks.

I already supplied it but I'll give it to you again with more details.

Boyer et al, Zakim and Boyer's Hepatology - A Textbook of Liver Diseases - Volume I (5th Edition), Elsevier Inc., 2006

Also,

ISBN-13: 978-1-4160-3258-8
ISBN-10: 1-4160-3258-4

All of my information came from chapter 55: NASH. Specifically, the table came from page 1033 and the text came from page 1042.

PS:- Also, I've read a few papers on drug-induced liver injury (DILI) and none of them reported NAFLD as a consequence of AAS. The two major liver problems that AAS can cause (fisrst much more common than second) is: cholestatic hepatitis and peliosis hepatis. If I have time I'll see if I can find them.
 
Last edited:
great post Alfresco...thank you for sharing your insight on this board...very interesting and very level-headed.
 
here... let me tell you a little story that happened to me this past week.
my whole family found out that i use gear... so they called me up and wanted to sit like an intervention kind of thing... I asked them to say what they had to say and then i'll speak... ofcourse, all of them (with no exceptions) kept telling me that i'm killing myself with gear usage (some of my syblings and my father told me that they are positive i know what i'm doing, but still i shouldn't ignore the negative effects)... it was a loooong talk (i have 3 other brothers and 2 sisters)... then i said "are you done?" they said yes... i took them one by one...

person 1... you have a fatty liver, the doctors say you won't live that long if you don't take care of it and fast, you are clinically obese weighing in at 180 lbs while being 5'0 yet you still believe you are healthy and that your eating habbits are best.

person 2... you have epilepsy and really awful cholesterol and doctors suggested you be put on lipitor... yet you do nothing at all despite the fact that i keep sending you research on ways to fix it.

person 3... you have meningitis and we all know what it was caused by. i carried you to the hospital while you were yelling and screaming and wishing you were dead... yet you still do the same shit that caused it and you don't think of stopping

person 4... you have had 90% of your thyroid removed and your ribcage is concaved inwards instead of outwards... what are you doing to ensure you live a healthy life?

person 5... you have multiple sclurosis... and yet you still believe it is caused by drinking a can or two of diet pepsi every now and then because the doctor said so

person 6... you have severe asthma and your nose swells up to 4 times it's size randomly from time to time for a couple of days and doctors can't explain why.

person 7... you have never had an illness in your life... you are 60 years old and a heavy drinker with perfect blood work and no problems at all... people who know you think you are 40 years old yet you smoke and drink all the time...

now tell me... i haven't had a disease or serious illness yet and i'm almost 30... the last time i went to a doctor was 4 years ago so i could get my tonsils removed and the son of a bitch still didn't want to take them out cuz i had to get the infection atleast 4 times a year and have to get labs to confirm they are infections every time... now tell me... genetically... who am i similar to?
and please... answer me truthfully... if i had any of the disease you guys had after i started using steroids... what would the doctors blame it on?
you got that right... and you'd believe it... now... please stop annoying me about this shit when i should be the one annoying you about your shit.



fuck... that was long... but i think you get my point... most of us are genetically inclined to have a disease of some sort (some severe, some not)... if you pick your nose often enough, the docs will blame your disease on that.

Goddam your family sounds fucked, except person 7-who was that BTW?
 
I'm going to have some fun with this, play devils advocate if you will,
so please don't bust my balls too much as I believe there is a element
of truth in what I have written below . . .

"How many of us you ask, or people we personally know?" . . . let me take a
stab at that.

Take your hands out your pockets, take your socks off, and start counting,
back and forth, again and again, ad nauseum, that is if you are looking for
a number . . .. because you will need all the help you can get.

Then spend a few minutes purusuing any bodybuilding forum and you will
see an almost endless stream of posts about steroids. And by and large,
they are not extolling the virtues of them (except muscle building), telling
you about how great they feel, or how they improved the quality of their life
or the lives of others around them . . . an important distinction here, and
most often overlooked.

They are almost exclusively about how maximum amounts (few talk about
the minimum's), how long they can stay on, and dealing with the side effects,
too numerous to mention, and the mixing and matching of these substances
in a way that just boggles my little mind. Just think if this intellectual power,
this will, this unquenchable thirst for knowledge was brought to bear on the
subject of diet and exercise, and not just solely on AAS and the "experimentation"
thereof.

A large percentage of the steroid posts (>50%?) have to do with some sort
of unwanted side effect or health issue. Reversible? Many are, many aren't.
Preexisting? Again, many are and many aren't. Exasperated by the use
of AAS, yes, many are and some aren't. And all the while we wonder why
the media, the government, the general population holds the opinions that
they do; why they don't understand us, what we are doing, right or wrong,
about the subject of steroids. And while you can't blame everything on
there usage, at the same time, you can't ignore the adverse side effects
and / or continue to blame it on your Mom and Dad (genetics) or some pre-
existing condition, diet, etc . . .

It's a roll of the dice in many regards, with the stakes being your health.
Many know what they are doing going in, although most don't until it's too
late because it usually takes that long to figure it out sad to say. These
things take time, and everybody nowadays seems to be such a hurry,
wanting to save time, while having no idea what they are going to do with
the time they so desperately think they are saving.

Yes, sometimes it pays to look before you leap.

Just my opinion and this should by no means be misconstrued as a complaint,
do what you like I always say, it's no skin off my nose, just some thoughts
that have been rattling around in my brain, like a BB in a boxcar . . .

i agree
 
This is a great post guys. I see my Dr. later this week and he was concerned about my liver E being high. See we took blood 2-months ago and ran numbers as my Dr. knows what I do. Two months ago my numbers were up but normal for me as we have been doing this for over 10 years. This time my numbers are up higher then I ever had. Don't have numbers on paper yet. they were read to me over voicemail. Long story short, I've gained about 30lbs in the last 2-months do to stress and personal problems. I'm weighing 255 and when I get back to 230 or 235 my numbers come back down. If my Dr. didn't have any idea about test he would want me to go see another Dr. All that will happen this week is the Dr. will say hey your 52 years old and now that your life is better again drop the weight and we will check you in 3-months. This has happened before and I know it's not from my suppliments yea the numbers are higher but I've never gained that much weight before. 10 to 15lbs and that would change numbers. Lifting will push numbers up also because of muscle breakdown. I hope this helps, I've already started dieting and light cardio. At 52 I try to stay strong and healthy. Sorry if long winded.
 
make a list

in one column list the health benefits of steroids.
in the other column list the health risks.
its amazing to me that so many people ignore the huge long list of adverse possibilities and focus on the short (blank) list....
-JS
 
in one column list the health benefits of steroids.
in the other column list the health risks.
its amazing to me that so many people ignore the huge long list of adverse possibilities and focus on the short (blank) list....
-JS

True,
I think people are kind of in denial because it is quite obvious that they are not gonna make you drop dead instantly or your body crumble like that anti-steroid commercial(not instantly anyway).You wont see immediate health issues or O.D. like street drugs.BUT,if people think there are NO Danger or long term effects of abuse that is ignorance,denial, or stupidity or all three at once.Just to name one thing to keep this short,having chronic hypertension leads to all sorts of problems and that is fact!!

I remember one guy on here said "Gear has been proven to be safer than vitamin C or Tylenol" really? not just specualtion or personal opinion but proven?!?!? and we all know how many credible studies are floating around on AAS,lol.:rolleyes:
 
in one column list the health benefits of steroids.
in the other column list the health risks.
its amazing to me that so many people ignore the huge long list of adverse possibilities and focus on the short (blank) list....
-JS

Yeah, I read the title of this thread and thought I would take a short look inside. I'm not even going to waste any energy voicing my opinion on this matter. Anyone that wants to see what I would have to say can just do a search on this forum under my user name. Most guys are in denial, and its not until misfortune finally strikes that they will admit that something is wrong with their health.
 
If we look at it from a health benefit point of view... it would be completely retarded to use steroids.
but we aren't looking at it from a health point of view (just like anything else we do.... job, hobbies, food, tv... etc).
so, yes, i agree. from a health point of view... steroids are dangerous and there's nothing that can justify their use.

from a 'self satisfaction' (or whatever) point of view... it's adifferent story.
 
If we look at it from a health benefit point of view... it would be completely retarded to use steroids.
but we aren't looking at it from a health point of view (just like anything else we do.... job, hobbies, food, tv... etc).
so, yes, i agree. from a health point of view... steroids are dangerous and there's nothing that can justify their use.

from a 'self satisfaction' (or whatever) point of view... it's adifferent story.

You hit the nail on the head. Tell a mountain climber to give it up because he could fall, tell a race car driver to stop because he could crash, tell a teenager to stop messing with all those girls because he could get a disease, tell an alcoholic to not drink because he's destroying his brain and liver, tell a policeman to stop policing because its a dangerous job, tell a fireman to stop putting out fires because he could get burned, tell a smoker to stop smoking because its turning their lungs black. All of these people are taking risks for different reasons. Chances are none of them will regret it unless/until it has a negative effect on them. There's no guarantees on life. You could live like a saint and die tomorrow or be a reckless risk taker and live until your 90. Live your life. Whether you live carefully, moderately, or just don't give a f***, do it because that's what YOU want to do. Don't let me or anyone else tell you what to do.
 
if you go to a nascar message board you never hear them tell the drivers to "slow down your gonna get hurt".. the race could easily be conducted with a top end of 40 miles per hour.. it would still be competitive.. but the crowds still want to see speed..
if one of their own gets hurt in a crash they never tell him to heed the warnings and dont go back to racing.. they applaud him for his courage and his "love of the game" and getting back to his love..

driving vehicles at 200 mile per hour with no room for error is dangerous even with all safety in check.. yet they dont tell them to stop or request they all go slower.. the drivers would not anyway.. it is their need for speed.. the fans love it.. ands so do the drivers .. they get self satisfaction out of it.. and yes, a nice pay check..sometimes..

so yes.. gear can be dangerous.. everyone has their own personal limits as to what they are comfortable taking.. mine are very low.. i am a puss.. but i wont tell others, who already know the risks, what they should do.. educate them to the risks.. and hope they heed the warnings.. but tell anyone who has a passion for any game to stop because it is just to dangerous 9 times out of ten will not happen.. it is overridden by the self satisfaction they feel doing it.. you just have to hope they are taking all needed precautions in the process..

but i do have to ask.. how many more threads per week like this do we need ? a few weeks back we had literally 6 separate threads all basically about the health risks of gear on the first page.. many were just duplicates of the previous threads.. i am all for educating but, lets look at what is already posted and add to that..;)
 

Forum statistics

Total page views
576,145,791
Threads
138,455
Messages
2,857,243
Members
161,445
Latest member
Kodia
NapsGear
HGH Power Store email banner
yourdailyvitamins
Prowrist straps store banner
yourrawmaterials
3
raws
Savage Labs Store email
Syntherol Site Enhancing Oil Synthol
aqpharma
yms-GIF-210x131-Banne-B
hulabs
ezgif-com-resize-2-1
MA Research Chem store banner
MA Supps Store Banner
volartek
Keytech banner
thc
Godbullraw-bottom-banner
Injection Instructions for beginners
YMS-210x131-V02
Back
Top