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AI's/prolactin inhibitors/serms

DK0223

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spin off of my HCG thread. do you use these, and do you feel they are necessary? personally ive been using an ai(adex), have used caber, letro, nolva, clomid as well. another topic that intrigues me for sure
 

MegatronsMuscle

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One of the best threads on ProMuscle regarding Anti-Estrogens (covering Nolva, Exemestane, Letro, etc.)

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/beginners-forum/43658-using-antiestrogen.html

A recent thread and good discussion about Cabergoline:

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...um/98671-cabergoline-official-discussion.html

I use Aromasin (Exemestane) as my main AI - nothing works better for my body than Aromasin. And to cover the Prolactin I have used Prami but the sides were a bit much so I use Caber now and all is well.
 

prime52

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One of the best threads on ProMuscle regarding Anti-Estrogens (covering Nolva, Exemestane, Letro, etc.)

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/beginners-forum/43658-using-antiestrogen.html

A recent thread and good discussion about Cabergoline:

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...um/98671-cabergoline-official-discussion.html

I use Aromasin (Exemestane) as my main AI - nothing works better for my body than Aromasin. And to cover the Prolactin I have used Prami but the sides were a bit much so I use Caber now and all is well.

cosign, cover nicely
 

The Big MC

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If your prone to gyno have letro on hand just in case. I use caber with high anabolic cycle for sex drive and for prolactin gyno but no longer than 60 days. I think you can use prami longer though. Adex eod on cycle, nolva and clomid on pct for me.
 

DK0223

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One of the best threads on ProMuscle regarding Anti-Estrogens (covering Nolva, Exemestane, Letro, etc.)

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/beginners-forum/43658-using-antiestrogen.html

A recent thread and good discussion about Cabergoline:

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...um/98671-cabergoline-official-discussion.html

I use Aromasin (Exemestane) as my main AI - nothing works better for my body than Aromasin. And to cover the Prolactin I have used Prami but the sides were a bit much so I use Caber now and all is well.

thanks for the link man, however i would still like to get this thread going if we can ;)

so you always use an ai, and caber/prami only if needed?
 

tr

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If your prone to gyno have letro on hand just in case. I use caber with high anabolic cycle for sex drive and for prolactin gyno but no longer than 60 days. I think you can use prami longer though. Adex eod on cycle, nolva and clomid on pct for me.

about deca/tren, prl and gyno

guy from another forum said:
Deca dick is not caused by high prolactin:

Sexual dysfunction in men treated with depot anti... [Sex Health. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI

see its not prolactin rise that causes ED. it may play a part, but its not a direct cause. Further, when it comes to deca dick, its due to DHN:

"...Erectile dysfunction is attributed to the weaker action of dihydronandrolone in the penis since dihydrotestosterone is a known sexual modulator."

from: Nandrolone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically DHT is a strong androgen, and causes erections (think proviron) and when you take test, 5-7% of all test converts to DHT (and gives you erections) where as 19-nortest derivatives such as deca and tren reduce to DHN which does the opposite...

At any rate the whole think with tren/deca and prolactin is... a BIG misunderstanding...

There is some pretty basic misunderstanding out there, with people repeating "bro science" and saying they have "prolactin" gyno from deca or tren, which is physically impossible:

Prolactin "...stimulates the mammary glands to produce milk (lactation): Increased serum concentrations of prolactin during pregnancy cause enlargement of the mammary glands of the breasts and prepare for the production of milk. However, the high levels of progesterone during pregnancy suppress the production of milk. Milk production normally starts when the levels of progesterone fall by the end of pregnancy and a suckling stimulus is present

thats from: Prolactin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You should note that, HIGH progesterone INHIBITS prolactin!!

Then, 19-nortestosterones , are classed as progestins:

"Clinical studies have shown" Deca Durabolin..." (a 19-nortestosterone derivative) "... to be effective in treating anaemia, osteoporosis and some forms of neoplasia including breast cancer, and also acts as a progestin-based contraceptive... Estrogenic effects resulting from reaction with aromatase are also mitigated as a result of the drug being a progestin."

from: Nandrolone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And if you read this, 19-nortest has MINOR activity in aromatisation in men:
**broken link removed**

Now what DOES cause breast development?

"While estrogens are present in both men and women, they are usually present at significantly higher levels in women of reproductive age. They promote the development of female secondary sexual characteristics, such as breasts, and are also involved in the thickening of the endometrium and other aspects of regulating the menstrual cycle. In males, estrogen regulates certain functions of the reproductive system important to the maturation of sperm[10][11][12] and may be necessary for a healthy libido.[13][14]"
from: Estrogen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now progesterone:
"...Progesterone has a number of physiological effects that are amplified in the presence of estrogen. Estrogen through estrogen receptors upregulates the expression of progesterone receptors.[26] ."


also:

"Progesterone is sometimes called the "hormone of pregnancy",[35] and it has many roles relating to the development of the fetus...In addition progesterone inhibits lactation during pregnancy. The fall in progesterone levels following delivery is one of the triggers for milk production." (folks please not, as noted above in prolactin- high progesterone INHIBITS prolactin, low progesterone lets prolactin rise).

both the above from: Progesterone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So to summarise that:
1. 19-nortest derivatives (deca & tren) are progestins
2. High levels of progesterone INHIBIT prolactin
3. Progesterone only exerts the majority of its effects in a high oestrogen environment.


So, where the F**K do people get of saying take CABER to suppress prolactin when taking 19-nor steroids??? Taking a 19-nor steriod AUTOMATICALLY INHIBITS PROLACTIN!!!
 

DK0223

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^^^interesting! so this would then go with the belief that as long as you control estro with an ai, no caber/prami would be needed?
 

MegatronsMuscle

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I love test and if I do not use an AI it seems that my I will get a little bit of nipple sensitivity and my skin will be inflamed (the start of acne). I tried using Letro on cycle and I could not find a happy medium dosage wise - I would either tank my estro levels so low that I would have creaking joints and when I would reduce (even in small increments) then it would not be enough estro suppression and nipple sensitivity would return. So I decided to Exemestane and at 25mg everyday - it is perfect. No acne, minimal bloat, etc.

I've recently started using Trenbolone Suspension daily. I got nipple sensitivity promptly the next say so I decided to use Caber. A while back I used Prami when I was using Deca. Prami was awesome in all respects in regards to Prolactin suppression but damn - it would make me feel bad (headaches, feeling down, etc.) Also at the time I was using Tagamet (Cimetidine) and it reacts very badly to that. So far Caber has been the bomb - the only side effects I get are a slight headache the day I take it then for the rest of the week it is really cool and sexual performance is through the roof in addition to prolactin suppression. I use .5mg twice a week. A little higher I know, but I am using a Tren Suspension which is just "holy shit" so all the sides from Tren come at you with a vengeance.

It is my experience with my body that if you are using testosterone at dosages higher than 750mg a week an AI is essential - for my body it makes all the difference in the world and all of those famous testosterone side effects become null and void. Same thing with Caber/Prami - it takes the edge out of using 19-nors.
 

tr

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^^^interesting! so this would then go with the belief that as long as you control estro with an ai, no caber/prami would be needed?

yes. This is pretty much what Adonis89 and jimmyjones were saying all the time
 

matt1164

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great post tr.

one day we will figure all this stuff out but its posts like yours that really help out.
 

matt1164

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about deca/tren, prl and gyno

there might be something to this- I had bloodwork done one month after a tren blast with no caber and my prolactin level was 4.3. the reference range is 3.5-18, i believe. that really made me question the whole tren/prolactin thing.
 

tr

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there might be something to this- I had bloodwork done one month after a tren blast with no caber and my prolactin level was 4.3. the reference range is 3.5-18, i believe. that really made me question the whole tren/prolactin thing.

how you cycle looked like, Matt? low test?
 

DK0223

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yes. This is pretty much what Adonis89 and jimmyjones were saying all the time

yea keeping things simple is the way to be, im guilty of always over complicating things lol
 

matt1164

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how you cycle looked like, Matt? low test?

yes, I never went over 150mgs test prop a week.

I did go up to 200mgs tren A/ day. I ran .5 adex every 2 or 3rd day or whenever I remembered.
 

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