Anabolic steroids and cardiac muscle

[MethodAir]

LOL, yeah it is! Mine has gotten up that high before, when it was in fibrillation I guess. My defibrillator records my HR when it gets high and keep a record of it. I can send that info to the Dr. over the internet or go in for a reading. Mine has been up to about 450 bpm before, and that's when my defibrillator fires off and saves my life.

That's insane.

 

[maldorf]

That's insane.

The worst was when I was squatting in the basement and got my heart rate too high. My defibrillator went off like 9 times or so, once every 15 seconds I think it is set for. It was the worst thing ive ever been through. I thought I was going to die for sure. Usually it goes off just once and then my heart is back in rhythm again. That time it kept going off. I thought maybe it had gone bad or I had a broken lead maybe. I also wondered if it just wasnt working and my heart was not back into rhythm. Eventually it stopped going off. I called 911.

I found out after going to the hospital that I never left sinus rhythm, just that it was over the threshold my doc had set. He had it set way too low. Before that he had it set too high and when I would go into v tach I would pass out. Passing out isnt acceptable of course because I could hurt myself by striking something when I go down or worse yet I could be driving a car. Its a matter of getting the threshold set just right.

When I know its going to go off I swear that I can hear the capacitor charging up and all I can do is brace myself for the blast.

 

[MethodAir]

The worst was when I was squatting in the basement and got my heart rate too high. My defibrillator went off like 9 times or so, once every 15 seconds I think it is set for. It was the worst thing ive ever been through. I thought I was going to die for sure. Usually it goes off just once and then my heart is back in rhythm again. That time it kept going off. I thought maybe it had gone bad or I had a broken lead maybe. I also wondered if it just wasnt working and my heart was not back into rhythm. Eventually it stopped going off. I called 911.

I found out after going to the hospital that I never left sinus rhythm, just that it was over the threshold my doc had set. He had it set way too low. Before that he had it set too high and when I would go into v tach I would pass out. Passing out isnt acceptable of course because I could hurt myself by striking something when I go down or worse yet I could be driving a car. Its a matter of getting the threshold set just right.

When I know its going to go off I swear that I can hear the capacitor charging up and all I can do is brace myself for the blast.

Terrifying.

 

[Pissbrainiac259]

Right, and the ejection fraction is expressed as a percentage of the amount of blood ejected during systole, so its (Stroke volume / LVEDV)*100.

What if your patient has Eisenmenger syndrome or Takotsubo cardiomyopathy or heaven forbid....Arrhythmogenic right ventricular dysplasia?

Just messin' with ya.

 

[Blazed_Noob]

So I only read the first two pages so forgive me if my question was answered.
Have you found any effects on a heart with a heart murmur , or anabolics causing a heart murmur over time?.
Obviously AAS cause heart conditions or cause some sort of damage , either minor or major. Have you found any cases of long term use NOT causing damage. If so , what length of time while running gear did issues start to arise?
I'm sure it effects everyone differently but maybe there is some sort of average.....
Thanks in advance

 

[maldorf]

So I only read the first two pages so forgive me if my question was answered.
Have you found any effects on a heart with a heart murmur , or anabolics causing a heart murmur over time?.
Obviously AAS cause heart conditions or cause some sort of damage , either minor or major. Have you found any cases of long term use NOT causing damage. If so , what length of time while running gear did issues start to arise?
I'm sure it effects everyone differently but maybe there is some sort of average.....
Thanks in advance

As far as heart murmur, I haven't seen anything at all on that. I think if blood pressure is high and unchecked that it could cause a problem after some time but I haven't seen any studies on steroids causing that. I think high BP does cause heart valve problems after some time, and steroids can raise BP.

No studies I have seen with users not having some kind of issue, but usually the case studies are all on people that are having heart problems already. The studies I linked here, I think even those guys had some issues. Empirically, if you look at professional bodybuilders and high level competitors you will see that most aren't diagnosed with heart problems or at least it hasn't been made public. Overall, the drugs are going to not be healthy for you and do increase your risk. Higher doses will raise the risk even more as well as the types you use. Most guys today realize there is some risk and chose to take it. I truly believe that the lifespan will be reduced after longtime use, just how much is going to vary from person to person. It could be just a few years or it could end up being something as much as in the neighborhood of 50 years. I know one thing though, when your number is called the first thing that comes to mind is "oh shit" and you wish you hadn't done what you did with the AAS, youre not thinking "I lived my life the way I wanted to". You want to fight to stay alive, not be buried in the biggest coffin the funeral home offers.

 

[Pissbrainiac259]

So I only read the first two pages so forgive me if my question was answered.
Have you found any effects on a heart with a heart murmur , or anabolics causing a heart murmur over time?.
Obviously AAS cause heart conditions or cause some sort of damage , either minor or major. Have you found any cases of long term use NOT causing damage. If so , what length of time while running gear did issues start to arise?
I'm sure it effects everyone differently but maybe there is some sort of average.....
Thanks in advance

Do you really want to go down the heart murmur rabbit hole?

 

[Pissbrainiac259]

The worst was when I was squatting in the basement and got my heart rate too high. My defibrillator went off like 9 times or so, once every 15 seconds I think it is set for. It was the worst thing ive ever been through. I thought I was going to die for sure. Usually it goes off just once and then my heart is back in rhythm again. That time it kept going off. I thought maybe it had gone bad or I had a broken lead maybe. I also wondered if it just wasnt working and my heart was not back into rhythm. Eventually it stopped going off. I called 911.

I found out after going to the hospital that I never left sinus rhythm, just that it was over the threshold my doc had set. He had it set way too low. Before that he had it set too high and when I would go into v tach I would pass out. Passing out isnt acceptable of course because I could hurt myself by striking something when I go down or worse yet I could be driving a car. Its a matter of getting the threshold set just right.

When I know its going to go off I swear that I can hear the capacitor charging up and all I can do is brace myself for the blast.

Out sheer academically curiosity, what is your pacemaker programming?

 

[MethodAir]

So I only read the first two pages so forgive me if my question was answered.
Have you found any effects on a heart with a heart murmur , or anabolics causing a heart murmur over time?.
Obviously AAS cause heart conditions or cause some sort of damage , either minor or major. Have you found any cases of long term use NOT causing damage. If so , what length of time while running gear did issues start to arise?
I'm sure it effects everyone differently but maybe there is some sort of average.....
Thanks in advance

What type of heart murmur are you referring to? I would be more concerned with the synthetic carrier oils sometimes used, as they appear to spike c-reactive protein and thus increase the chance of cardiac lesion formation (coronary artery, valvular etc, as noted by @vigoroussteve from the muscle nomads youtube channel).

 

[maldorf]

Out sheer academically curiosity, what is your pacemaker programming?

Paces at 170 and defibrillate at 210.

 

[Pissbrainiac259]

Paces at 170 and defibrillate at 210.

Single or dual-chambered pacing?

 

[maldorf]

Single or dual-chambered pacing?

Single

 

[Blazed_Noob]

What type of heart murmur are you referring to? I would be more concerned with the synthetic carrier oils sometimes used, as they appear to spike c-reactive protein and thus increase the chance of cardiac lesion formation (coronary artery, valvular etc, as noted by @vigoroussteve from the muscle nomads youtube channel).

Not sure yet , won't have ct scan until next Tuesday.

 

[MethodAir]

Not sure yet , won't have ct scan until next Tuesday.

Also get an echocardiogram if you haven't recently done so already. If you have a severe aortic valve diastolic murmur for instance, there will be severe aortic valve regurgitation, likely in addition to aortic valve lesions which can be tracked by BNP lab readings.

 

[maldorf]

Bump for those that want to read some about the heart and anabolic steroids.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

It depends on lab results so far both times I tested on 10 mgs a day, 70 a week, my test was in the 200s both times, yes this was Pfizer scripted

It's better than nothing and I have gone down to 70 mgs a lot . That said I've done 12, 15, and 20 mgs a day and find I seem to hold more size esp when I'm off cycle a couple or few month


I'm still competing so it's different than being sixty years old

Regardless, I do thinkgoing down to trt doses for guys that cycle is a must for health reasons

And when cycling taking no more than is needed to progress and getting in and out as fast as possible

 

[maldorf]

It depends on lab results so far both times I tested on 10 mgs a day, 70 a week, my test was in the 200s both times, yes this was Pfizer scripted

It's better than nothing and I have gone down to 70 mgs a lot . That said I've done 12, 15, and 20 mgs a day and find I seem to hold more size esp when I'm off cycle a couple or few month


I'm still competing so it's different than being sixty years old

Regardless, I do thinkgoing down to trt doses for guys that cycle is a must for health reasons

And when cycling taking no more than is needed to progress and getting in and out as fast as possible

Yes, dropping down to a TRT dose in between cycles would be the best thing healthwise, but most wont do that because they lose too much size. Back when I started doing things in the late 90s I would always get off completely. I did feel more healthy then. Now most guys I think are basically on all year long ,all of the time. Cruising of 200 or 300 mg/wk or more. Before I had my heart attack I was cruising on 250 to 300 mg test cyp/week in order to maintain most of what I had between cycles.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

Yes, dropping down to a TRT dose in between cycles would be the best thing healthwise, but most wont do that because they lose too much size. Back when I started doing things in the late 90s I would always get off completely. I did feel more healthy then. Now most guys I think are basically on all year long ,all of the time. Cruising of 200 or 300 mg/wk or more. Before I had my heart attack I was cruising on 250 to 300 mg test cyp/week in order to maintain most of what I had between cycles.

I did 10 over the counter prohormone, designer legal cycles from 2004-2014, thats an averages of ten cycles a year. Some years id do two and I didnt do any from 2006-2009. anyways, after every cycle I went off completely . Now a days I do trt, and even if it is 70-140 mgs I hold more size and feel better. Plus the fact, I'm way older, and i have hypogodnaism

last time i tried going completely off was 2015 for two months, I used clomid, triptorellin(sp), and d aspartic acid, my test levels came back at 14, although 70 mgs may not have me feeling good as 150 mgs , its sure beats nothing and I feel fine on it, even if test is a little low on it

 

[maldorf]

Single or dual-chambered pacing?

I was wrong. It's dual chamber and now im looking at getting a biventricular device. So I need more surgery now to get a 3rd lead and new device.

 

[SteroidJet.com]

I

The heart is a muscle and it too is affected by anabolic steroids.

Here was a study done on weight lifters using steroids vs not using.

https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20100427/anabolic-steroids-may-weaken-the-heart#1

The article says it is not known if the users can recover from the damage. When I was about 35 years old I was diagnosed with cardiomyopathy and my heart did recover after getting off the juice. My EF was down to about 35-40% too. That is just my experience and obviously not proof of anything, but thought I would share again.

A better study run here showed:
"Echocardiography revealed that 71 percent of current AAS users had a lower-than-normal LV ejection fraction, a measure of how much oxygenated blood the heart delivers to the arteries with each contraction"

71% of their population, that is large.

Study showed some recovery, which is good:

"Half of current AAS users exhibited slower-than-normal LV expansion, indicating that reduced amounts of oxygenated blood flowed in to refill the LV during the relaxation phase of the heartbeat. These impairments likely were related to thickening of the LV muscle wall in the AAS users. Former AAS users had a larger LV ejection fraction than current users, suggesting that their LV had recovered some pumping strength."

This is not reversible:
"AAS users also had significantly more atherosclerotic plaque in their coronary arteries than did nonusers (see Figure 2). This effect was more pronounced the longer they had taken AAS and did not seem to be reversible after discontinuing AAS use. "

The control group showed no differences in heart:

"The researchers found no differences in cardiovascular structure and function between AAS nonuser weightlifters and nonusers who were not weightlifters. This observation confirmed that none of the observed changes could be attributed to weightlifting itself."

the study is here: https://www.drugabuse.gov/news-even...androgenic-steroids-may-damage-heart-arteries

I just spent about 3 minutes and found those articles. There are many more out there. Maybe if you find a good study you can add it to this thread.

I hope you are doing fine now. This is an eye opener. I never used to do Cardio in the start, always found it too hard. Been doing it On & Off for a couple of years now, helps alot imho.