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Anabolic steroids and cardiac muscle

maldorf

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The heart is a muscle and it too is affected by anabolic steroids.

Here was a study done on weight lifters using steroids vs not using.

https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20100427/anabolic-steroids-may-weaken-the-heart#1

The article says it is not known if the users can recover from the damage. When I was about 35 years old I was diagnosed with cardiomyopathy and my heart did recover after getting off the juice. My EF was down to about 35-40% too. That is just my experience and obviously not proof of anything, but thought I would share again.

A better study run here showed:
"Echocardiography revealed that 71 percent of current AAS users had a lower-than-normal LV ejection fraction, a measure of how much oxygenated blood the heart delivers to the arteries with each contraction"

71% of their population, that is large.

Study showed some recovery, which is good:

"Half of current AAS users exhibited slower-than-normal LV expansion, indicating that reduced amounts of oxygenated blood flowed in to refill the LV during the relaxation phase of the heartbeat. These impairments likely were related to thickening of the LV muscle wall in the AAS users. Former AAS users had a larger LV ejection fraction than current users, suggesting that their LV had recovered some pumping strength."

This is not reversible:
"AAS users also had significantly more atherosclerotic plaque in their coronary arteries than did nonusers (see Figure 2). This effect was more pronounced the longer they had taken AAS and did not seem to be reversible after discontinuing AAS use. "

The control group showed no differences in heart:

"The researchers found no differences in cardiovascular structure and function between AAS nonuser weightlifters and nonusers who were not weightlifters. This observation confirmed that none of the observed changes could be attributed to weightlifting itself."

the study is here: https://www.drugabuse.gov/news-events/nida-notes/2017/11/anabolic-androgenic-steroids-may-damage-heart-arteries

I just spent about 3 minutes and found those articles. There are many more out there. Maybe if you find a good study you can add it to this thread.
 

NEMSZ

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More reasons why I’ll never go above true TRT doses again, pending I can get scripted.. Won’t know until next week when I go back to the Urologist..
 

maldorf

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More reasons why I’ll never go above true TRT doses again, pending I can get scripted.. Won’t know until next week when I go back to the Urologist..
I hope that it works out well for you. He may have you do some return visits over a period of months to see if your level recovers some, that's what mine did and I respect that more than a doctor just writing out a script on the first trip.
 

NEMSZ

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I hope that it works out well for you. He may have you do some return visits over a period of months to see if your level recovers some, that's what mine did and I respect that more than a doctor just writing out a script on the first trip.
Yea I actually saw my results today online, after being off for 8-9 weeks;

Total Test: 312
Free Test: 67

I was very open with him and it helps he’s open minded, told him I started AAS on and off when I was 18 about 10 years ago then at around 23 I decided to just stay on with sporadic weeks where I was too lazy and inconsistent and wouldn’t inject for like 3-4 weeks... And I haven’t touched anything harsh since about 23 years old, been basically Test at varying doses but never over 600-750mg for a few weeks at a time, otherwise it was just 1cc @250-300mg a week mostly with periods only doing 1/2cc... It varied more in that dose range than the higher range by far.. Told him I’ve had Test ranges from over 1500 when I was on the higher doses to around 950ish when I was on 120-150mg...

He told me that the longer time someone is on then the longer it takes for the natural system to come back if it ever even does and that if my body is used to the higher numbers/range then I might not even feel as good with levels at 600ish (where he usually likes to keep people) and I may need a little higher to feel good. But he said we’ll evaluate options when he sees my bloodwork and if I would be opposed to waiting a few more months to see what my system does naturally, I told him of course not and he’s the boss lol... So let’s see what he thinks of those numbers..
 

maldorf

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Yea I actually saw my results today online, after being off for 8-9 weeks;

Total Test: 312
Free Test: 67

I was very open with him and it helps he’s open minded, told him I started AAS on and off when I was 18 about 10 years ago then at around 23 I decided to just stay on with sporadic weeks where I was too lazy and inconsistent and wouldn’t inject for like 3-4 weeks... And I haven’t touched anything harsh since about 23 years old, been basically Test at varying doses but never over 600-750mg for a few weeks at a time, otherwise it was just 1cc @250-300mg a week mostly with periods only doing 1/2cc... It varied more in that dose range than the higher range by far.. Told him I’ve had Test ranges from over 1500 when I was on the higher doses to around 950ish when I was on 120-150mg...

He told me that the longer time someone is on then the longer it takes for the natural system to come back if it ever even does and that if my body is used to the higher numbers/range then I might not even feel as good with levels at 600ish (where he usually likes to keep people) and I may need a little higher to feel good. But he said we’ll evaluate options when he sees my bloodwork and if I would be opposed to waiting a few more months to see what my system does naturally, I told him of course not and he’s the boss lol... So let’s see what he thinks of those numbers..
Sounds like a really good doc. Mine was similar to that. I tried being off for about 11 months and my total test never got up over about 35 to 40.
 

Stewie

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I posted this when it first published

Use of anabolic androgenic steroids produces greater oxidative stress responses to resistance exercise in strength-trained men

The aim of this study was to determine the effect of anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) use on oxidative stress responses to a single session of resistance exercise in strength-trained men. Twenty-three strength trained men, with 11 self-reporting regular AAS use and 12 self-reporting never taking AAS (NAAS) volunteered to participate in this study. Blood draws were obtained pre and post resistance exercise in order to evaluate changes in oxidative stress biomarkers levels (i.e., 8-hydroxy-2-deoxyguanosine [8-OHdG], malondialdehyde [MDA], and nitric oxide [NO]), antioxidant defense systems (i.e., glutathione peroxidase [GPx] and catalase [CAT]), and glucose (GLU) levels. The AAS users had higher level of 8-OHdG (77.3 ± 17 vs. 57.7 ± 18.2 ng/mg), MDA (85.6 ± 17.8 vs. 52.3 ± 15.1 ng/mL), and GPx (9.1 ± 2.3 vs. 7.1 ± 1.3 mu/mL) compared to NAAS at pre exercise (p < 0.05). Both the experimental groups showed increases in 8-OHdG (p = 0.001), MDA (p = 0.001), GPx (p = 0.001), NO (p = 0.04), CAT (p = 0.02) and GLU (p = 0.001) concentrations after resistance exercise, and the AAS group indicated significant differences in 8-OHdG (p = 0.02) and MDA (p = 0.05) concentrations compared with NAAS users at post exercise. In conclusion, use of AAS is associated with alterations in immune function resulting in oxidative stress, and cell damage; however, high-intensity resistance exercise could increase greater oxidative stress biomarkers in strength-trained men.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5615127/
 

thethinker48

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Use of anabolic androgenic steroids produces greater oxidative stress responses to resistance exercise in strength-trained men




https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5615127/
It's like a perfect recipe for heart disease:

Lipid dysfunction: check
Endothelial dysfunction and oxidative stress: Check
Inflammation: Check
Genetics for a pro-atherosclerotic environment (longer ldl clearance time, Lpa elevation..): Check in some people

This isn't even taking into account high BP's effects on vasculature for kidneys, and myocardial tissue :(
 

NEMSZ

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It's like a perfect recipe for heart disease:

Lipid dysfunction: check
Endothelial dysfunction and oxidative stress: Check
Inflammation: Check
Genetics for a pro-atherosclerotic environment (longer ldl clearance time, Lpa elevation..): Check in some people

This isn't even taking into account high BP's effects on vasculature for kidneys, and myocardial tissue :(
And yet there will be some guy skipping over this thread and posting another one saying;

“Hey bros, I’m 45 years old and been on AAS blast and cruise for 25 years and want to be more health conscious, thinking about Test, Tren and Mast year round at low doses, thinking of 200mg each per week, that’s healthy right?”

:rolleyes: lol
 

maldorf

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It appears that Thyroid medication combined with AAS also causes blood clotting issues. See below study.

Maldorf have you used Thyroid before?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29942726
Wow, good find. I don't think I have ever heard about that before and we have a good number of bodybuilders using thyroid hormone to get lean.

No, I have never used it before. Good thing I didn't. I hope some others on this site read this and beware of thyroid. Having that along with using steroids is a bad move to make apparently.
 

danieltx

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It appears that Thyroid medication combined with AAS also causes blood clotting issues. See below study.

Maldorf have you used Thyroid before?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29942726
Wow, good find. I don't think I have ever heard about that before and we have a good number of bodybuilders using thyroid hormone to get lean.

No, I have never used it before. Good thing I didn't. I hope some others on this site read this and beware of thyroid. Having that along with using steroids is a bad move to make apparently.
It's worth noting that this study is specifically about the supplement Armour Thyroid. Most who use thyroid hormones for fat loss are using T3 or T4.
 

Joltan

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It's worth noting that this study is specifically about the supplement Armour Thyroid. Most who use thyroid hormones for fat loss are using T3 or T4.
That is precisely what Armour Thyroid is... a mix of T3 and T4.
 

Stewie

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Wow, good find. I don't think I have ever heard about that before and we have a good number of bodybuilders using thyroid hormone to get lean.

No, I have never used it before. Good thing I didn't. I hope some others on this site read this and beware of thyroid. Having that along with using steroids is a bad move to make apparently.
It appears that Thyroid medication combined with AAS also causes blood clotting issues. See below study.

Maldorf have you used Thyroid before?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29942726
I've brought this up a few times in the past. It's always a nice reminder tho

Always very helpful! :) Letrozole definitely has been shown to have a superior suppression of E1S over Arimidex, in some clinical settings. From my readings, Aromasin had a lower percentage of suppression on E1 and E1S. Although, this is subjective to the individuals expression and genetic action of 17β-HSD1 to estrone sulfate (E1S) <> E2. Thoughts? As always my time has been very compressed. A few things I'd like to add to your list gg. Do not overdo it on phlebotomies, tanking your iron stores. It's been observed that iron deficiency (even without anemia) will increase platelets to become more "sticky", increasing the chance of clotting to occur. Know your genetic background. If any first degree relative has a clotting disorder or any type of autoimmune diseases. Check for Factor V Leiden, Prothrombin mutation, MTHFR and Galectin-3, which has been implicated in the venous thrombogenesis process. Iron deficiency would exacerbate and an elevated level Galectin-3 potentiating the risk of a clot several fold. One could also check their Fibrinogen levels, hs-CRP, Lp-PLA², Homocysteine and Myeloperoxidase levels. One last thing, those that push the envelope on running high T3 doses. This can be pro-thrombotic in a hyperthyroid state.
https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2165184
 

D_trip

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And yet there will be some guy skipping over this thread and posting another one saying;

“Hey bros, I’m 45 years old and been on AAS blast and cruise for 25 years and want to be more health conscious, thinking about Test, Tren and Mast year round at low doses, thinking of 200mg each per week, that’s healthy right?”

:rolleyes: lol
People are afraid of the truth. I run into alot of people thru work and Ive seen and heard people walk around with crazy problems that they are afraid to check out and when they do it could and in some cases have been too late.

-

I always want more information out from studies like this, like why it actually happens.

Is it related to the greater thickening of the heart wall?
Is it related to the thickening of the blood and long term is causes this problem?
What steroids are involved? What dosages? Have they all been on for 9 years or have they done a 3 months cycle a year for 9 years?
 

xpoc

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I am on armour thyroid...considering giving it up after reading this report. Anyone STOPPED thyroid meds? If so, how did you do it and how did your body react?
 

Flex500

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I am on armour thyroid...considering giving it up after reading this report. Anyone STOPPED thyroid meds? If so, how did you do it and how did your body react?
I'm on thyroid meds and all my bloods have been stable as far as thyroid for 12 years now. I tried to come off once and it did not go well. There are other issues that arise on the flip side of that coin and for overall health a controlled thyroid I would think would be better than total dysfunction.
 

emeric delczeg

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More reasons why I’ll never go above true TRT doses again, pending I can get scripted.. Won’t know until next week when I go back to the Urologist..
TRT should be 70mg peer week max, not more.
 

Elvia1023

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TRT should be 70mg peer week max, not more.
I personally don't really think you can give an exact dose of a drug for an entire population. Many have a different response due to numerous factors. Just the same as a 300 pound man may require more of x to treat a mild illness than a 100 pound man. To say they can't go above 70mg to me is wrong. What if 70mg has their test levels too low. What if they need 120mg (for example) to be in the middle of the "healthy" range?
 

hogan86

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It's like a perfect recipe for heart disease:

Lipid dysfunction: check
Endothelial dysfunction and oxidative stress: Check
Inflammation: Check
Genetics for a pro-atherosclerotic environment (longer ldl clearance time, Lpa elevation..): Check in some people

This isn't even taking into account high BP's effects on vasculature for kidneys, and myocardial tissue :(
Add in many AAS users not doing cardio regularly and skipping fresh fruit/veg because there is no room left after jamming down all the calories.
 

Joltan

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Add in many AAS users not doing cardio regularly and skipping fresh fruit/veg because there is no room left after jamming down all the calories.
Plus constantly having the MTOR and IGF pathways constantly open, due to excessive Protein and Carbs (and compounds). It's definitely not a healthy hobby.
 

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