Dr. Scott Stevenson On Are All Steroids Equally Anabolic

[Doitagain]

I'm sure that many have noticed how Primo performed almost unexpectedly well even at low doses in that study, but...Human beings express 4 different isozymes that can catalyze 3α-reduction. All are able to catalyze 3α-reduction, and differ in their tissues distribution and substrate specificity. This is in sharp contrast with what can be observed in the rat, that expresses only a single enzyme that’s capable of 3α-reduction. Because of the presence of multiple enzymes being able to catalyze 3α-reduction, as well as the single one in rats not being identical to any of the 4 isozymes round in men, a certain caution should be taken when extrapolating resulta from rats to humans in this scenario. This is to say that in men primo may follow a similar fate of that observed with DHT (deactvation in muscle tissue before it reaches the AR) albeit to a lesser extent.

 

[luki7788]

I'm sure that many have noticed how Primo performed almost unexpectedly well even at low doses in that study, but...Human beings express 4 different isozymes that can catalyze 3α-reduction. All are able to catalyze 3α-reduction, and differ in their tissues distribution and substrate specificity. This is in sharp contrast with what can be observed in the rat, that expresses only a single enzyme that’s capable of 3α-reduction. Because of the presence of multiple enzymes being able to catalyze 3α-reduction, as well as the single one in rats not being identical to any of the 4 isozymes round in men, a certain caution should be taken when extrapolating resulta from rats to humans in this scenario. This is to say that in men primo may follow a similar fate of that observed with DHT (deactvation in muscle tissue before it reaches the AR) albeit to a lesser extent.

I think most dht derivatives have the same "problem" except anadrol but it is a completely different beast even though in theory it is also a dht derivative

 

[BBSQ5]

Do any of you still run Var/Winny together or has that fallen by the wayside for most these days??

Just curious, because there are quite a few sponsors that still blend it and sell it.

I haven’t done it since back in my 30’s, because I’m not sure even with all of the supps and lab work coming back good these days, if I want to tax liver and kidneys like that anymore.

 

[Reno911]

Do any of you still run Var/Winny together or has that fallen by the wayside for most these days??

Just curious, because there are quite a few sponsors that still blend it and sell it.

I haven’t done it since back in my 30’s, because I’m not sure even with all of the supps and lab work coming back good these days, if I want to tax liver and kidneys like that anymore.

Why would you be taxing the kidneys worse than any other gear combo? High blood pressure will tax the kidneys worse that any gear itself.

 

[BBSQ5]

Why would you be taxing the kidneys worse than any other gear combo? High blood pressure will tax the kidneys worse that any gear itself.

Not 100% sure and it may just be what my bloodwork always came back as while taking Var, but I was always told by my providers who are also users that Var is what was making my renal numbers come back rough in my labs versus the other gear.

You are correct and I wish I took Telmisartan and Nebivolol a lot sooner than I do, but I was always great with BP during that time frame and it could have just been any kind of misnomer and not actually the Var or combo of those two.

Just a general question and labs have been great, along with BP for a decade now, but I also haven’t run oral combos since back then.

 

[qbkilla]

I'm sure that many have noticed how Primo performed almost unexpectedly well even at low doses in that study, but...Human beings express 4 different isozymes that can catalyze 3α-reduction. All are able to catalyze 3α-reduction, and differ in their tissues distribution and substrate specificity. This is in sharp contrast with what can be observed in the rat, that expresses only a single enzyme that’s capable of 3α-reduction. Because of the presence of multiple enzymes being able to catalyze 3α-reduction, as well as the single one in rats not being identical to any of the 4 isozymes round in men, a certain caution should be taken when extrapolating resulta from rats to humans in this scenario. This is to say that in men primo may follow a similar fate of that observed with DHT (deactvation in muscle tissue before it reaches the AR) albeit to a lesser extent.

Interesting. Every time I research primo at a low dose seems like half say it's great, then half of people say worthless unless run at a higher dosage

 

[275bills]

Interesting. Every time I research primo at a low dose seems like half say it's great, then half of people say worthless unless run at a higher dosage

Joking a side.. if this was training what would you do ?

Try the research yourself right? See what works for you.

Same goes for primo

 

[qbkilla]

Joking a side.. if this was training what would you do ?

Try the research yourself right? See what works for you.

Same goes for primo

Fair point. On 350 prop now... prolly try 200 prop/200 primo see how I like it.

 

[Mufasa123]

Interesting. Every time I research primo at a low dose seems like half say it's great, then half of people say worthless unless run at a higher dosage

Satisfaction with results depends on expectations. 300mg of primo may be great. 1gram may suck. Depends on what each was trying to achieve and the individual taking it. Have to try and see.

 

[rAJJIN]

Brand name vs generics.
I know when I buy always save charcoal
It does not burn the same as Kingsford.
The kingsford will burn to a fine ash, completely gone. The always save will burn down and char up and go out. Never burning to complete ash.
But there both “charcoal” and look the same, smell the same etc.

 

[specter]

Brand name vs generics.
I know when I buy always save charcoal
It does not burn the same as Kingsford.
The kingsford will burn to a fine ash, completely gone. The always save will burn down and char up and go out. Never burning to complete ash.
But there both “charcoal” and look the same, smell the same etc.

Cant cut it like that, there could be many things at play here, how pure is ther charcoal ? is it 80 vs 90.. is you test 220mg vs 250mg.. we are talkin stuff thats is equal.. 250mg test e is 250mg test e.. doesnt matter if its chinese bing bong test or Beyer test from germany pharma lab.. if all els is equal its just a matter of your mind messing with you.

 

[KingOfSushi]

Cant cut it like that, there could be many things at play here, how pure is ther charcoal ? is it 80 vs 90.. is you test 220mg vs 250mg.. we are talkin stuff thats is equal.. 250mg test e is 250mg test e.. doesnt matter if its chinese bing bong test or Beyer test from germany pharma lab.. if all els is equal its just a matter of your mind messing with you.

Exactly, there are clear differences in the quality and production between many name brand products and the generics.

If you are taking HPLC tested UGL anavar vs pharmacy anavar and both test at hypothetically perfectly 50mg, then they are quite literally the exact same thing (barring fillers).

 

[Mufasa123]

The difference is oral medication is typically binders. Active ingredient is identical.

Now, I've run into exactly the issue where a generic behaves differently. My son was prescribed an adhd medication generic where a very small % of population has an issue where an inert binder does actuslly interact in their body with the drug and makes behavior worse or some episodes severe. They did tell us this and damn of during the first week we didn't have one, had no idea and was like wtf...it was exactly this. Happened twice, once very severe. They switched him to name brand and it's been a decade and nothing remotely similar.

That said, a molecule is a molecule.
Assume lab assay and equal purity. Eat the raw powder unpressed and alone without binders and boom it CANNOT be different.

 

[rAJJIN]

I would think there are different grades and purity of any product being produced?
“Same thing” but tons of variables.
Starting with raw powder.
I’ve seen a lot of powders and it’s not always the same. Then you have age and storage.
Heart of the batch and bottom of the barrel.

From there you have shipping and again storage. Ugl guy and however he decides to formulate and finish it.

 

[rAJJIN]

Someone should have a series called
Are all anabolics created equal.
And track the process of raw powder production and how it is formulated. Is it the same process for hospital vs black market?
And are there variables involved.

 

[Mufasa123]

I would think there are different grades and purity of any product being produced?
“Same thing” but tons of variables.
Starting with raw powder.
I’ve seen a lot of powders and it’s not always the same. Then you have age and storage.
Heart of the batch and bottom of the barrel.

From there you have shipping and again storage. Ugl guy and however he decides to formulate and finish it.

There are. Ultra high purity used for science and real lab work is super expensive for just about anything. Same for super precise parts and even materials used (making high end missiles and warheads is a conversation I just had on this).

That said everything is done to tolerance and this includes US pharma. Keeps it affordable and it's more than good enough. Test a prescription pill and you'll find a good level of variance is acceptable, same with injects. I've seen the stats but it's been a while +/- 5% maybe more.

What does this mean in practicality. A molecule of substance X is a molecule of substance X. There is no lower grade... it just is or isn't. This is where testing tests purity in a sample. How much of Sub X is in a given sample whether raw or pill or oil. Shitty raws have low purity and will have less Sub X. This is when it shows up. But rest assured Substance X is Substance X and presence plus amount is what's important.

Also I'll add AAS are stable and robust molecules. Sunlight is the doom (it's radiation after all) but normal world temps don't mess the up much. Not hard to get good raws we'll above 90% purity.

 

[rAJJIN]

Can you run us through the process of how they are made into “raws” and the variables involved? We all know the process of turning the china raws into a finished product.
But you do not see as much on how they make the raw material. Again, is registered pharma getting the same raw materials processed at the same factory’s as we see on the black market?

In regards to storage.
Let’s say Lujiguo had 100 kilo of raw test enanthate. He only sold 30 kilo per year.
Would you rather buy what he had on hand year 1, or what he had left on year 3?
Testing shows it’s still as good as year 1.

Then take it a step further and your UGl bought the year three test enan for a great deal. Super sale. But he only makes it as he goes and stores the rest.
No matter the sunlight or storage method, it’s now getting to be pretty old product

 

[mexbeast]

If it helps I have always had the same reaction to the many different brands of oxy I have ever tried, no matter the brand, take 25-50mgs and i can't eat anything afterwards. Back in the day I got some test powder from nain, and it was cut with some sht that looked like silica. But as recent as 12 years ago i never encountered that problem again, I would say that most powers out there right now are 98% minimum purity.

 

[Mufasa123]

Can you run us through the process of how they are made into “raws” and the variables involved? We all know the process of turning the china raws into a finished product.
But you do not see as much on how they make the raw material. Again, is registered pharma getting the same raw materials processed at the same factory’s as we see on the black market?

In regards to storage.
Let’s say Lujiguo had 100 kilo of raw test enanthate. He only sold 30 kilo per year.
Would you rather buy what he had on hand year 1, or what he had left on year 3?
Testing shows it’s still as good as year 1.

Then take it a step further and your UGl bought the year three test enan for a great deal. Super sale. But he only makes it as he goes and stores the rest.
No matter the sunlight or storage method, it’s now getting to be pretty old product

Artifical/lab synthesis isn't my forte. I'm not a chemist and don't understand all that goes into it on big scale. I'd be curious but a lot of pharma raws come from China as well as UGL raws. Probably the same...if there's a bad batch it probably doesn't go to pharma and gets sold cheap I sure but with common testing these days...a lot harder.

I'm sure one of the raw guys knows or Type II for sure.

Test E is a bad example these days. Test E seems to have issues as it ages (degrades - ie less purity). I think some old Test E batches are responsible for the painful injects some report in the past 5ish years. I had a painless homebrew batch that after a few years causes some sting. Deca or other stuff made same date, same ba/BB and carrier didn't do this. Lots of guys report brewing half painless test e then a year later brewing the rest and painful. Too bad because I like test e. Someone had theories on this but can't recall anymore. That said everything you said is correct. Test it and it's good. I'll take the currently tested high purity batch regardless of age. I have lots of old stuff that's great, test e not withstanding.

I wasn't exaggerating about sunlight. That is doom. A sample could last 20 years in a cold dark place and stay close to same strength. 6 months in sunlight and it's down 50%.

 

[stackdizzy]

Its actual "normal" its the brain that "glorifies" our memmories of the old times.. the drugs are exactly the same, ppl even forget that sometimes shit was overdosed even from Pharma, lookin thru the old anabolics books i see Iranian test e dosed at 333mg/ml, also in his UG book there is Dbol inject dosed at like 125mg/ml when stated on the bottle is like 25mg/ml.. its just our brains messing with us..

Are you talking about Reforvit B? Or something else?