Andriol(test undeconate) only 1week?

[GoneForever]

So, i've been seeing on a bunch of places that the detection time for andriol(test undeconate) is only 1week. How is this possilbe when enanthate and cyp are 3 months and undeconate is the longest acting ester out of them all. Im asking b/c a bro of mine is in cage fighting and can only use gear thats out of system fast for drug tests.

 

[Moen]

Actually undecanoate is the shortest acting esther

 

[KillerStack]

So, i've been seeing on a bunch of places that the detection time for andriol(test undeconate) is only 1week. How is this possilbe when enanthate and cyp are 3 months and undeconate is the longest acting ester out of them all. Im asking b/c a bro of mine is in cage fighting and can only use gear thats out of system fast for drug tests.

You can't say that the detection time for enanthate or cypionate is 3 months for everyone or with any dosage. You can use a little bit all the way through and pass (would never recommend trying it though). You can't trust the detection times lists found on bb forums. The detection times are not well known simply because a drug testing body like WADA will not help athletes pass so they keep their data secret for the most part.

Take a look here, the dosage used would equal 350mg/week of enanthate for a 220lbs person:

J Strength Cond Res. 2007 May;21(2):354-61. Links
The effect of short-term use of testosterone enanthate on muscular strength and power in healthy young men.Rogerson S, Weatherby RP, Deakin GB, Meir RA, Coutts RA, Zhou S, Marshall-Gradisnik SM.
School of Exercise and Sport Management, Southern Cross University, Lismore, New Wales, Australia. [email protected]

Use of testosterone enanthate has been shown to significantly increase strength within 6-12 weeks of administration (2, 9), however, it is unclear if the ergogenic benefits are evident in less than 6 weeks. Testosterone enanthate is classified as a prohibited substance by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) and its use may be detected by way of the urinary testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio (16). The two objectives of this study were to establish (a) if injection of 3.5 mg.kg(-1) testosterone enanthate once per week could increase muscular strength and cycle sprint performance in 3-6 weeks; and (b) if the WADA-imposed urinary T/E ratio of 4:1 could identify all subjects being administered 3.5 mg.kg(-1) testosterone enanthate. Sixteen healthy young men were match-paired and were assigned randomly in a double-blind manner to either a testosterone enanthate or a placebo group. All subjects performed a structured heavy resistance training program while receiving either testosterone enanthate (3.5 mg.kg(-1)) or saline injections once weekly for 6 weeks. One repetition maximum (1RM) strength measures and 10-second cycle sprint performance were monitored at the pre (week 0), mid (week 3), and post (week 6) time points. Body mass and the urinary T/E ratio were measured at the pre (week 0) and post (week 6) time points. When compared with baseline (pre), 1RM bench press strength and total work during the cycle sprint increased significantly at week 3 (p < 0.01) and week 6 (p < 0.01) in the testosterone enanthate group, but not in the placebo group. Body mass at week 6 was significantly greater than at baseline in the testosterone enanthate group (p < 0.01), but not in the placebo group. Despite the clear ergogenic effects of testosterone enanthate in as little as 3 weeks, 4 of the 9 subjects in the testosterone enanthate group ( approximately 44%) did not test positive to testosterone under current WADA urinary T/E ratio criteria.

Now I know they can detect synthetic test but to my knowledge they only look at the source if the ratio is out of whack.

 

[GoneForever]

Actually undecanoate is the shortest acting esther

How? Isnt this the stuff that lasts longer than cyp and enanthate. Its the same stuff as the new HRT method they are going to prescribe where the person only needs 1shot per every couple months. I though suspension was the fasters, then propriante, then enanthate then cyp then deconate then undeconate.

 

[qwerty_uk]

yeah I was wondering the same thing a few weeks ago

I assume taking it orally reduces the HL but probably another reason as well.

 

[KillerStack]

I'm curious if anyone has tried it solo and noticed anything at all from it? It's notorious for having extremely poor absorption.

 

[GoneForever]

Ahhhh maybe the oral pill andriol is in system for a week, but the injectable undecanate ester should be much longer right?

 

[MMAGorilla]

If your friend is going to be making a living fighting he needs to find a professional who can advise him in this very critical area. Even one blemish as a young fighter will make him a target for all future testing, not to mention being tagged as a cheater (although most of the same guys condeming him are using also).
Relying on even a reliable board such as ours for this kind of critical information is haphazard at best. Like KillerStack said, this information is hard to come by, but it is out there if you put in the time. Look at pro cycling or olympic track and field or swimming where use is rampant and the testing is very stringent and you'll start finding some hard facts in published research. Good luck to your friend.

 

[qwerty_uk]

just remembered it uses the lymph system to bypass the liver. So surely that wouldn't decrease the HL.

 

[KillerStack]

just remembered it uses the lymph system to bypass the liver. So surely that wouldn't decrease the HL.

Maybe someone who understands half-lives could explain this since I'm curious also. I know there are different half-lives when it comes to drugs (biological half-life, active half-life and so on), and perhaps the depot made in the muscle is accounted for as well when it comes to injectable steroids?

 

[aesop]

Maybe someone who understands half-lives could explain this since I'm curious also. I know there are different half-lives when it comes to drugs (biological half-life, active half-life and so on), and perhaps the depot made in the muscle is accounted for as well when it comes to injectable steroids?

undecanoate ester has a long half life when injected because of the depot and because it is not at all soluble in water so it takes a very long time for the depot to disperse. Once an esterified hormone is in the blood stream then the half lives of all esterified testosterones (prop cyp, etc) are pretty much all the same because the ester is immediately cleaved by esterase and you are left with plain old testosterone "no ester" . Like mentioned earlier andriol taken orally is absorbed through the lymph system and dumped directly into the blood so the ester has no real effect on extending the half life.

This is why it is so fucking funny that the new craze in supplements is esterfying amino acids and claiming that they are extended release it is such BS. Esterfying AA's actually decreases absorption and bioavailability but a few esterfied AA's do seem to work better than free form. Acetyl L carnitine is the only one that comes to mind immediately, though.

 

[KillerStack]

undecanoate ester has a long half life when injected because of the depot and because it is not at all soluble in water so it takes a very long time for the depot to disperse.

Thanks. That's what I suspected, that the long half-life had to do with the depot in the muscle.

IIRC the half-life is also affected by the volume of the injection and mg per ml concentration.

What I don't understand is that in my PDR it says the half-life of Test E is 4.5 days, but the stuff I see on the net says 10 days or so

 

[GoneForever]

undecanoate ester has a long half life when injected because of the depot and because it is not at all soluble in water so it takes a very long time for the depot to disperse. Once an esterified hormone is in the blood stream then the half lives of all esterified testosterones (prop cyp, etc) are pretty much all the same because the ester is immediately cleaved by esterase and you are left with plain old testosterone "no ester" . Like mentioned earlier andriol taken orally is absorbed through the lymph system and dumped directly into the blood so the ester has no real effect on extending the half life.

This is why it is so fucking funny that the new craze in supplements is esterfying amino acids and claiming that they are extended release it is such BS. Esterfying AA's actually decreases absorption and bioavailability but a few esterfied AA's do seem to work better than free form. Acetyl L carnitine is the only one that comes to mind immediately, though.

So with that being said, would a drug test for the andriol in pill form be out of your system in a week, but the injectable could still be detectable for long peroids of time?

 

[aesop]

So with that being said, would a drug test for the andriol in pill form be out of your system in a week, but the injectable could still be detectable for long peroids of time?

yes. If you are tested you should never use injections because of the depot. Use orals or transdermals

 

[qwerty_uk]

So the long chain helps it stay in the oil you inject and once it’s in the blood stream it gets de-esterified pretty quick no matter which ester it is?

If so the I assume different gear with different amounts of dissolvent’s will have a different half life.

Also different oil with different molecular weight will effect the HL too and the amount of steroid that it can hold???

 

[KillerStack]

So the long chain helps it stay in the oil you inject and once it’s in the blood stream it gets de-esterified pretty quick no matter which ester it is?

If so the I assume different gear with different amounts of dissolvent’s will have a different half life.

Also different oil with different molecular weight will effect the HL too and the amount of steroid that it can hold???

I remembered this. This is a study often quoted when discussing steroid half-lives etc. "The Minto Study":
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/281/1/93

A snippet:

Injection technique, including injection site, volume and concentration, as well as the nature of the vehicle, could theoretically be important for androgen ester release rate. Injection site may be important because of differences in tissue composition

This is what aesop was talking about:

The current understanding is that the rate-limiting mechanism governing the appearance of active steroid in the bloodstream is the retention of steroid esters from the oil vehicle depot due to oil/water partitioning, with gradual release into the extracellular fluid, where esters are rapidly hydrolyzed to liberate biologically active steroid.

Seems like with a steroid like Nandrolone decanoate it can leave the depot and go into another tissue and then get released again, if I understand correctly. The "two-compartment model".

The type of ester influenced the absorption profile of nandrolone, such that the phenylpropionate ester was best described by a one-compartment absorption model and the decanoate ester was best described by a two-compartment absorption model. This was implemented in the model with parameter P (table 5). The interpretation of this parameter was that, effectively, the total dose of the phenylpropionate ester is administered into the "fast" compartment characterized by the rapid absorption rate constant (k1), whereas only ~14% of the total dose of the decanoate ester is administered into this compartment, with the remaining ~86% of the total dose being administered into the "slow" compartment characterized by a slower absorption rate constant (k2).

 

[GoneForever]

If your friend is going to be making a living fighting he needs to find a professional who can advise him in this very critical area. Even one blemish as a young fighter will make him a target for all future testing, not to mention being tagged as a cheater (although most of the same guys condeming him are using also).
Relying on even a reliable board such as ours for this kind of critical information is haphazard at best. Like KillerStack said, this information is hard to come by, but it is out there if you put in the time. Look at pro cycling or olympic track and field or swimming where use is rampant and the testing is very stringent and you'll start finding some hard facts in published research. Good luck to your friend.

Seems like you know what they test for. I realize he needs a professional advisor but I recommended him test prop and var. Both should clear within 2-3weeks right?

 

[MMAGorilla]

Seems like you know what they test for. I realize he needs a professional advisor but I recommended him test prop and var. Both should clear within 2-3weeks right?

The operative word is should clear. Everyones metabolism is different, and everyones body will pass the drugs sooner or later in some cases than the average. The safest Test he can use is suspension.

Out of curiosity, what are his goals with his supplement program? Is he wanting some extra aggression in the ring or is he just trying to train at 100%?

 

[aesop]

yes. If you are tested you should never use injections because of the depot. Use orals or transdermals

man people don't listen. Don't use test prop or any injection! transdermal test base and NO VAR( not good for endurance) maybe some winny or tbol, or oral primo ace.

 

[GoneForever]

The operative word is should clear. Everyones metabolism is different, and everyones body will pass the drugs sooner or later in some cases than the average. The safest Test he can use is suspension.

Out of curiosity, what are his goals with his supplement program? Is he wanting some extra aggression in the ring or is he just trying to train at 100%?

He's actually looking to put on about 10lbs. Wants to optimize training as well. Not using for agression. I told him to run it and play it safe and stop 3weeks before the show. Now, here is the thing. Do they test for nolvadex? B/c I told him to just run the store brand novadex till show is over, then get on real nolvadex for pct. But if nolva isnt test he'll just run that.