anti E's ranking

[gooey]

what would someone suggest as the best anti E on the market, any experiences, favs, etc. If someone were to actually use them
gooey

 

[xcelbeyond]

1. Exemestane (Aromasin)
2. Letrozole (Femara)
3. Anastrozole (Arimidex)
4. Tamoxifen (nolvadex)
to a lesser degree (both have anti-estrogen qualities):
Clomid
Proviron

I've actually never used the Aromasin but have a couple dozen on hand if an emergency arises They were some damn hard to find and expensive - $3.50 a tab.

I use the letrozole but only take about 1/2 tab EOD - like it the best of everything I've taken

 

[Pittbull™]

Aromatase Inhibitors

Not to sure where I picked this up from but quite interesting

Product / Aromatase Inhibition / Residual Aromatase%

Formestance (4-androstenoldion) 91.6 / 8.1%
Aromasin (exemestance) 97.9 / 2.1%
Cytradren (aminoglutethimide) 90.6 / 9.4%
Arimidex (anastozole) 96.7 / 3.1%
Femera (letrozole) 98.7 / 1.3%

Product / Effect / Percentage

Formestance (4-androstenoldion) Increases IGF-1 / 26%
Femera (letrozole) Increases IGF-1 / 24%
Aromasin (exemestance) Increases IGF-1 / 28%
Arimidex (anastozole) Decreases IGF-1 / 18%
Nolvadex(tamoxifen citrate) Decreases IGF-1 / 23.5%
Faslodex (fulvestrant) Decreases IGF-1 / 70%
Cytradren (aminoglutethimide) Increases IGF-1 / 27%

Pittbull

 

[Mr.Huge]

that all depends..

what would someone suggest as the best anti E on the market, any experiences, favs, etc. If someone were to actually use them
gooey

It all depends one what your using them for. What is your purpose for the anti-E? You can use them for more then just one thing; hence, decreasing water retention, dieting, lower estrogen levels, if your gyno prone etc. It all is dependant on what your looking to get out of it.


Mr.Huge

 

[Skip]

Just to be very clear in case someone is looking at the list and drooling, do NOT ever use cytadren for an anti e unless it is very close to a show and the period of use is short. I understand what the list is representative of but cytadren should not ever be considered comparable to arimidex or the other normal anti e's.

Skip

 

[PHATBOI]

True-dat

agree w/Mr. Huge
Proviron not only prevents gyno but in some BB it actually decreases existing gyno problems. And I would'nt take anything with out a little nolvadex to go with it.

Listen to them, they are giving you good info.

 

[Big Ian]

Just to be very clear in case someone is looking at the list and drooling, do NOT ever use cytadren for an anti e unless it is very close to a show and the period of use is short. I understand what the list is representative of but cytadren should not ever be considered comparable to arimidex or the other normal anti e's.

Skip

Well I have used Cytadren with great success in the past, I only stopped using it about 4 years ago when my source dried up and then Arimidex took over. At 250mg/day (1 tab) it was great as an anti-aromataze (used it with up to 1,500mg test/week) and I never got any sides either.

As far as which is the best one that I have used, I would say Femara followed by Arimidex and then Cytadren

 

[Skip]

Well I have used Cytadren with great success in the past, I only stopped using it about 4 years ago when my source dried up and then Arimidex took over. At 250mg/day (1 tab) it was great as an anti-aromataze (used it with up to 1,500mg test/week) and I never got any sides either.

As far as which is the best one that I have used, I would say Femara followed by Arimidex and then Cytadren

Are you serious? Just curious but how long did you use cytadren as an anti e? I didn't say it wasn't great as an anti e - it is absolutely great. I am saying that this is no drug to be on for any length of time.

Skip

 

[Big Ian]

Are you serious? Just curious but how long did you use cytadren as an anti e? I didn't say it wasn't great as an anti e - it is absolutely great. I am saying that this is no drug to be on for any length of time.

Skip

Absolutely serious probably used 4-5 boxes (100tabs per box) of the stuff over a few years (in 6-12 weeks cycles) and never had any problems that I could tell (never had bloodwork done). Used to have a friend that live in Greece so he could get it dirt cheap and it was the only true Anti-aromataze easily available at that time.

Why do you say it's no drug to be used for any length of time? Due to the cortisol inhibition you get from it?

 

[Skip]

Yeah, it is pretty rough on the adrenal glands. Even a simple, quick search on cytadren will produce a ton of very concerning side effects to watch out for while using it. The drug is only intended for patients with cushing's disease to be used for the brief time between diagnosing issues and surgery, from what I understand.
Either that or you could search for cushing's disease.

I am glad nothing happened to you, bro. I really am shocked.

Skip

 

[Big Ian]

Yeah, it is pretty rough on the adrenal glands. Even a simple, quick search on cytadren will produce a ton of very concerning side effects to watch out for while using it. The drug is only intended for patients with cushing's disease to be used for the brief time between diagnosing issues and surgery, from what I understand.
Either that or you could search for cushing's disease.

I am glad nothing happened to you, bro. I really am shocked.

Skip

Bro it's probably not been a problem because I was taking a quarter of the dose normally recommended for Cushings patients. At 250mg/day (in divided doses) it has limited effects on the cortisol and to quote rxlist.com:

"Upon withdrawal of therapy with Cytadren, the ability of the adrenal glands to synthesize steroid returns, usually within 72 hours"

 

[Skip]

I see your point of the lower dose and I am aware that higher doses are needed before there is any real impact on blunting cortisol. I know there were other reasons, though, but I can't remember them for the life of me other than the added effect on aldosterone levels. Taking cytadren is not unlike taking a small dose of aldactone. I mean, you basically said that you were using it for an anti e but it has 2 other main properties as well, being a mild diuretic (or rather having mild diuretic properties) and blunting cortisol production. At best, there are better options for an anti e. Aside from whether it is actually a health issue or not, it just kinda cuts to the a bigger problem in bodybuilding these days: Take more drugs than is needed and not give it as much thought as should be given. I am not beating you up but had I left your original response alone someone inevitably would have either thought or asked if cytadren was a good option for an anti e and it is not. It is not because if you need an anti e, take an anti e and that is it - not an anti e that has diuretic properties and at higher doses actually stops production of cortisol all together. The more we take and the more we fuck with different organs in our bodies, the more potential for problems. That is my primary point, I guess.

For the record, I do respect your opinion. We just disagree on this compound as I think it is unnecessary and potentially dangerous to use in the manner that you used it. Hell, for that matter it is just as dangerous to use it for 2 weeks before a show the way everybody uses it, too. lol *shrug*

This post has reminded me that I need to stay up on the hows and whys instead of just whether it works or not, and how well it works because I am sure I could put up a better argument had we debated this a year or two ago after I researched the hell out of it before using it myself and with more than several of my clients.

Skip

 

[TooPowerful4u]

What exactly does cytadren do for your conditioning approaching a show that some strong anti-e's and the right AAs combo cant? Im sure u can blunt all cortisol and estrogen w the right stuff besides cytadren. Doesnt cytadren also fuck w ur carb loading???

 

[Skip]

What exactly does cytadren do for your conditioning approaching a show that some strong anti-e's and the right AAs combo cant? Im sure u can blunt all cortisol and estrogen w the right stuff besides cytadren. Doesnt cytadren also fuck w ur carb loading???

If you are sure, let me know how you would plan to stop cortisol production without cytadren. I am not aware of anything else that would do this. Maybe relacor?? LOL Just kidding.

I don't think most guys stop damned near all estrogen conversion even if they think they do, before a show. The anti e properties of cytadren are both inhibitor and inactivator. Things like arimidex and letro won't accomplish what cytadren can for estrogen control. It appears from the other post we are going back and forth in, that aromasin may well do this but the combo of properties in cytadren is why it is so good for conditioning before a show.

CAN cytadren fuck with your carb loading? Sure it can - just as other things can fuck with your carb loading. Done right, you will fill out and fill up just fine. You just have to know what you are doing. I have heard this statement "it won't let you fill out" and I just laugh. I just love when shit like that is thrown around as fact when someone hasn't even used it - which is USUALLY what happens. Have some guys had problems with loading? I am sure they have but again, if you know what you are doing and how to schedule your dosing vs. your loading, etc., you will fill out without any problem at all. And...... really..... filling out usually isn't the reason guys are "off" anyway. Not being lean enough and not being dry enough is usually the culprit.

Skip

 

[xcelbeyond]

Not being lean enough

I believe this to be mainly the case more than anything else.

 

[Dave_19]

I think the leterozole is your best value, if your not in urgent need and if $ overall is an issue. .5 mg every 2-3 days works great for just about anyone..

 

[Chuck999]

Memory road - a little OT

Femara works great for me, and in fairly moderate doses. Unlike a lot of you guys I don't compete -never have (I know this is the "Pro" board), but I hang around because you guys know what you are talking about and unlike some boards, everybody on here (well mostly) are grown-ups. I have been lifting and using AS for over 20 years. (Actually lifting since I was in my mid-teens - a looooong time ago). Started when I was competing in Judo. Back when I started AS, most nobody had even heard of the concept of anti-e's. Gyno was just somthing that might happen (and did to a lot of guys!). When Arimidex, and then Femara came out, it was a hell of a breakthru. Hell, Nolva, clomid, etc., were a breakthru when we first got onto them. I seem to recall that the first guy who even came up with the concept was the late great Dan Duchaine.
Sorry for the trip down "memory road" rant. I guess reading the above discussion just kind of triggered it. Sometimes it kind of amazes me how far we have come with all this stuff.

 

[Big Ian]

Skip,

Couldn't agree with you more bro There are DEFINITELY better options as far as anti-aromatazes go than Cytadren (aminoglutethimide) these days and if I was offered it again I wouldn't change back from Femara/Arimidex because they are less risky. At the time I didn't think Cytadren was a great risk and as was the only anti-a available to me so I had to give it a shot. It worked without any NOTICEABLE side-effects but as you quite rightly say who's to say whether I did damage myself in the long run, I mean who can tell their Cholesterol is raised without getting a blood test?....it would be the same with the adrenal cortex etc.

Funny you should say about it being a mild diuretic actually, I didn't know that (or if I did, I'd forgotten it as I read up on it quite a bit before I started taking it and maybe I didn't realise the seriousness of it back then?) but I do recall getting harder on it whilst bulking than I do now on ari/fem but I thought I was imagining it.

Nice to make your acquaintance BTW Skip
Ian

 

[Skip]

Skip,

Couldn't agree with you more bro There are DEFINITELY better options as far as anti-aromatazes go than Cytadren (aminoglutethimide) these days and if I was offered it again I wouldn't change back from Femara/Arimidex because they are less risky. At the time I didn't think Cytadren was a great risk and as was the only anti-a available to me so I had to give it a shot. It worked without any NOTICEABLE side-effects but as you quite rightly say who's to say whether I did damage myself in the long run, I mean who can tell their Cholesterol is raised without getting a blood test?....it would be the same with the adrenal cortex etc.

Funny you should say about it being a mild diuretic actually, I didn't know that (or if I did, I'd forgotten it as I read up on it quite a bit before I started taking it and maybe I didn't realise the seriousness of it back then?) but I do recall getting harder on it whilst bulking than I do now on ari/fem but I thought I was imagining it.

Nice to make your acquaintance BTW Skip
Ian

Nice to make your acquaitance, as well, Ian. I am just disappointed that the debate is over. Hurry, think of something we can disagree on. Agreeing is no fun. LOL

Skip

 

[Big Ian]

Agreeing is no fun. LOL

Agreed! Doh! There I go again Okay, I'll put my thinking cap on