Are underground products sterile ?

[labboy]

Forgive me if this is a stupid question.... I have no knowledge of chemistry at all.

I can see how someone who wants to make 1 or two vials of homebrew gear can produce a sterile product when I read the step by step procedures using a sterile vial.
But I dont beleive the people who bring large amounts of underground products on the market are going to fabricate at 20 ml per session , sticking one needle for their filter in a sterile vial and one needle to draw the air from it. At the rate that these UG products are being sold that takes way too much time.
I dont doubt the product is sterile after using so much heat but I dont see them investing in the special equipment or machines used in labaratories to fill the vials in a sterile manner either. At best they will sterilise their vials and stoppers with steam or chemicals but there is always going to be some air contact.You never see puncture holes in the stopper..... ( unless they place them strategicly where the cap is going to cover them ??? )

Do they follow other procedures or should you just keep in mind that at a lower price they work as clean and sterile as possible but the level of sterility is never the same as products from the official pharmaceutical industry ?

 

[Massive G]

Probably not.

 

[labboy]

Probably not.

LOL that really was enlightning

 

[Massive G]

LOL that really was enlightning

I usually type a long post to it but sterile and clean and pharmgrade are 3 different terms when dealing with UG and making your own powder everything from the oil to the powder to glass and silicone and steriliztion purity is different.

Most Euro stuff is pharmgrade and top notch.

 

[G.E.R.M]

..

yeah...

i prefer to pop sterile vials and have end guys deal with the one pin hole in the stopper.. to me.. that end transfer of oil product to the vial is the hardest part to keep sterile if you are not using pre-sealed vials... everything else is easy..

 

[terryd5150]

I doubt it.

 

[jmcbride]

BA can only sterilize so much even if it says it kills 99% of the bacteria. But I have yet to hear anyone compain of a infection due to "dirty" or unsterile gear from a UG lab. Maybe with powder sources gone for awhile we will see how this pans out now if labs start to cut corners...

 

[doug1]

you won't have a hole in the top if they purchase a crimper and put those fancy tops on after the gear is in there. you can have a pretty good idea about the sterility early on, maybe start with only 1cc and see how it goes...

 

[thebrick]

I don't think you can lump this into one answer.... its kinda like asking are all restaurants clean?

 

[steve123456789]

If you going to use underground I suggest you buy some "BA" from some of the same suppliers that sell conversions kits. I inject an additional 5 % and also bake the stuff at 250 F for 30 minutes. This kills many types of bacteria. It is like cooking you food. You need to cook your food at least 165 degrees F for at lease 5-10 minutes to kill harmsull bacteria. More heat for longer is better. I also inject after a shower and used alcohol pads . The reason Greg Valentino got a infection was due to poor sanitation. I have never had a problem. I suggest you also making your gear from power or cattle pellets. YOU control the sanitation of the final product.

 

[The Wolf]

Depends on the underground company, British Dragon, CA Pharma good as gold. IMHO of course.

 

[terryd5150]

Nah...

... I suggest you also making your gear from power or cattle pellets. YOU control the sanitation of the final product.

And you also end up injecting all the glues and binders that were in the pellets as well.

 

[dragonfire101]

Sterile enough not to get an infection 99% of the time.

 

[AMERI-Pharm]

There are certain "class" ratings for pharmacology in not only the USA but around the world. Each system for determining this standard of cleanliness is about the same they just use different numbers for explaining each standard.

The lower the class rating in the "FS" standard the fewer microns there are in the air within any given area. The 1 or 10 FS class is designed for bottling vials of product. This allows the fewest microns in the air within lets say a clean room. This is the most difficult rating to achieve. Not all UG's use clean rooms for many reasons, one they are expensive and two you need a place to store your clean room and that requires leasing an industrial building which again costs money.

There are however a few UG's that have taken the extra steps to secure property and purchase either soft wall (less expensive) or hard wall (more expensive) clean rooms. We use a soft wall because the cost was within our budget and we can move it if ever we get into a bind. If you check our product sheet we explain our FS class rating and the other steps we take to ensure clean sterile products.

Forget BA and or heat. From when the product is made to when it is bottled and sealed if the air around that process is not controlled the entire time then there is a risk of contamination.

UG's that work on a large scale do not use pre-sterilzed and pre-sealed vials. Your production time would be up 100-200% over the methods that most currently use. Vials are sterilized in autoclaves which are located within a clean room. The vials are then moved to a holding area within the clean room and sealed inside a storage unit until they are needed. The product is made using high volume peristaltic pumps and or vacuum pumps. It is then run throw a series of high volume filters (which can handle 5-10 liters of product at one time) and pumped into sterile media glasses and then sealed. It is then pumped throw some form of metered dispenser into the already clean vials. The vials are then sealed with a rubber stopper and flip top and then crimped. At this point no human contact has been made and each person in the clean room is or should be wearing proper lab attire including hair caps and face masks. Using this method one could produce 100's of vials within a single sitting and because the process takes place inside a clean room the chances of contamination are incredibly low.

Now, not all UG's do this. I suspect there are no such UG's on this board as Big A and the team are quite strict on what is advertised here. This might sound like a huge investment but in reality a soft wall clean room, pumps, tablet presses and other pieces of equipment could be bought for less than $30k which is a very small investment from a business stand point.

I can't speak for all labs only the ones I know personally!

There is much more detail that could have gone into this post but I wanted to give a thumbnail of the process. It isn't quite like you might read on some of the homebrew sites where you are making 50, 100, or even 500ml at a time. This is a much larger scale and no matter what requires a substantial invest in equipment.

 

[terryd5150]

There are certain "class" ratings for pharmacology in not only the USA but around the world. Each system for determining this standard of cleanliness is about the same they just use different numbers for explaining each standard.....

Very interesting and informative post.

 

[labboy]

There are certain "class" ratings for pharmacology in not only the USA but around the world. Each system for determining this standard of cleanliness is about the same they just use different numbers for explaining each standard.

The lower the class rating in the "FS" standard the fewer microns there are in the air within any given area. The 1 or 10 FS class is designed for bottling vials of product. This allows the fewest microns in the air within lets say a clean room. This is the most difficult rating to achieve. Not all UG's use clean rooms for many reasons, one they are expensive and two you need a place to store your clean room and that requires leasing an industrial building which again costs money.

There are however a few UG's that have taken the extra steps to secure property and purchase either soft wall (less expensive) or hard wall (more expensive) clean rooms. We use a soft wall because the cost was within our budget and we can move it if ever we get into a bind. If you check our product sheet we explain our FS class rating and the other steps we take to ensure clean sterile products.

Forget BA and or heat. From when the product is made to when it is bottled and sealed if the air around that process is not controlled the entire time then there is a risk of contamination.

UG's that work on a large scale do not use pre-sterilzed and pre-sealed vials. Your production time would be up 100-200% over the methods that most currently use. Vials are sterilized in autoclaves which are located within a clean room. The vials are then moved to a holding area within the clean room and sealed inside a storage unit until they are needed. The product is made using high volume peristaltic pumps and or vacuum pumps. It is then run throw a series of high volume filters (which can handle 5-10 liters of product at one time) and pumped into sterile media glasses and then sealed. It is then pumped throw some form of metered dispenser into the already clean vials. The vials are then sealed with a rubber stopper and flip top and then crimped. At this point no human contact has been made and each person in the clean room is or should be wearing proper lab attire including hair caps and face masks. Using this method one could produce 100's of vials within a single sitting and because the process takes place inside a clean room the chances of contamination are incredibly low.

Now, not all UG's do this. I suspect there are no such UG's on this board as Big A and the team are quite strict on what is advertised here. This might sound like a huge investment but in reality a soft wall clean room, pumps, tablet presses and other pieces of equipment could be bought for less than $30k which is a very small investment from a business stand point.

I can't speak for all labs only the ones I know personally!

There is much more detail that could have gone into this post but I wanted to give a thumbnail of the process. It isn't quite like you might read on some of the homebrew sites where you are making 50, 100, or even 500ml at a time. This is a much larger scale and no matter what requires a substantial invest in equipment.

That was a fantastic post ! Thank you very much !!!

 

[doug1]

That was a fantastic post ! Thank you very much !!!

yes it was, thanks.