• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
ddd
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
Anabolic Hormones Store Banner
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
LandmarkChem Email Banner
Medtech Store Banner
Bruce Labs Store banner
advertise on professional muscle millions of hits per month
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

Back to the neuromuscular specialist

dragonfire101

Active member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
5,854
:(

I had to make another appointment to go back to see the neuromuscular specialist. Don't know if the mitochondrial issues I have are getting worse or I just can't push myself.

I have been training MMA lately and not really lifting. The last couple times even on the light training days my body is turning blue, face , hands everything and my muscle are cramping up and are becoming stiff and frozen.

I seems like lactic acidosis and hypoxia. :confused:

Wondering id I should load up on Adenosine triphosphate (ATP), Pyruvate, NADH, SOD, Magnesium and Acetyl-L-Carnitine (ALCA).
 
Last edited:

Jello

Moderator/Kilo Klub
Staff member
Moderator
Registered
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Messages
4,364
Whatever it is I hope it's not serious and they can fix you up quickly. That doesn't sound like it's very fun.
 

iprimate

New member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
368
:(

I had to make another appointment to go back to see the neuromuscular specialist. Don't know if the mitochondrial issues I have are getting worse or I just can't push myself.

I have been training MMA lately and not really lifting. The last couple times even on the light training days my body is turning blue, face , hands everything and my muscle are cramping up and are becoming stiff and frozen.

I seems like lactic acidosis and hypoxia. :confused:
The blue colour (cyanosis) sounds like hypoxia and hypoxia can cause lactic acidosis.

Metformin (and other biguanides) and angiotensin II receptor blockers (ARBs)
can cause lactic acidosis and they can contribute to it where they are not the primary cause so if you are on either of these classes of drugs you should stop taking them. Certain asthma medications can also cause/contribute to lactic acidosis.

Determining whether the cyanosis is central or peripheral will give you some clues as to the origin of the hypoxia. If your mucous membranes (gums, inside of cheeks and lips) also take on the blue-black colour then the cyanosis is central otherwise it is peripheral. Central cyanosis can be indicative of cardiac, pulmonanary or hemotological trouble. Peripheral cyanosis is often indicative of vasoconstriction, vascular occlusion or reduced left-ventricular function. Either way it requires professional medical attention. You need to find out what is causing the hypoxia.
 

maldorf

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
21,655
The blue colour (cyanosis) sounds like hypoxia and hypoxia can cause lactic acidosis.

Metformin (and other biguanides) and angiotensin II receptor blockers (ARBs)
can cause lactic acidosis and they can contribute to it where they are not the primary cause so if you are on either of these classes of drugs you should stop taking them. Certain asthma medications can also cause/contribute to lactic acidosis.

Determining whether the cyanosis is central or peripheral will give you some clues as to the origin of the hypoxia. If your mucous membranes (gums, inside of cheeks and lips) also take on the blue-black colour then the cyanosis is central otherwise it is peripheral. Central cyanosis can be indicative of cardiac, pulmonanary or hemotological trouble. Peripheral cyanosis is often indicative of vasoconstriction, vascular occlusion or reduced left-ventricular function. Either way it requires professional medical attention. You need to find out what is causing the hypoxia.
Dang, you got across a lot of good points there. I have nothing to add! I would like to ask the OP what his resting heart rate is like and how high does the HR get up to when he is exercising?
 

dragonfire101

Active member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
5,854
The blue colour (cyanosis) sounds like hypoxia and hypoxia can cause lactic acidosis.

Metformin (and other biguanides) and angiotensin II receptor blockers (ARBs)
can cause lactic acidosis and they can contribute to it where they are not the primary cause so if you are on either of these classes of drugs you should stop taking them. Certain asthma medications can also cause/contribute to lactic acidosis.

Determining whether the cyanosis is central or peripheral will give you some clues as to the origin of the hypoxia. If your mucous membranes (gums, inside of cheeks and lips) also take on the blue-black colour then the cyanosis is central otherwise it is peripheral. Central cyanosis can be indicative of cardiac, pulmonanary or hemotological trouble. Peripheral cyanosis is often indicative of vasoconstriction, vascular occlusion or reduced left-ventricular function. Either way it requires professional medical attention. You need to find out what is causing the hypoxia.
Not on any medications accept test and thyroid meds and bendyryl o sleep at night.

This was happening a couple years ago when I would try to lift more frequent and hard in the gym. It was so bad my muscles all froze up for 3 days and gradually go better over a few weeks. I could not move them. It was like I had a severe latic acid pump throughout my body and no ability to contract my muscles when I tried. It eventually all gradually subsided after a few months, but if I tried to lift more than a few times a week more than 45min symptoms would creep back up. Also I could not train one body part for more than one exercise 3 sets.

After a battery of test I was told I had Mitochondria Disorder. They never said what particular category I fell under. It seems maybe I'm experiencing Mitochondrial encephalomyopathy, lactic acidosis, and stroke-like episodes( MELAS). Maybe not there seems to be a lot of overlap of symptoms with the varies Mitochondria Disorders. For all know it could be something different.
 
Last edited:

iprimate

New member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
368
Not on any medications accept test and thyroid meds and bendyryl o sleep at night.

This was happening a couple years ago when I would try to lift more frequent and hard in the gym. It was so bad my muscles all froze up for 3 days and gradually go better over a few weeks. I could not move them. It was like I had a severe latic acid pump throughout my body and no ability to contract my muscles when I tried. It eventually all gradually subsided after a few months, but if I tried to lift more than a few times a week more than 45min symptoms would creep back up. Also I could not train one body part for more than one exercise 3 sets.

After a battery of test I was told I had Mitochondria Disorder. They never said what particular category I fell under. It seems maybe I'm experiencing Mitochondrial encephalomyopathy, lactic acidosis, and stroke-like episodes( MELAS). Maybe not there seems to be a lot of overlap of symptoms with the varies Mitochondria Disorders. For all know it could be something different.

Mitochondrial encephalomyopathy, lactic acidosis, and stroke-like episodes( MELAS) is quite a mouthful and unfortunately I don't know much about mitochondrial disorders.

This must be quite a blow for an athletically inclined person. I have had brief periods of stiffening up and extreme nausea (and acidosis confirmed by blood lactate monitor) when I was on Olmersartan and it is scary when it first happens and you don't know what is happening.
 

dragonfire101

Active member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
5,854
Mitochondrial encephalomyopathy, lactic acidosis, and stroke-like episodes( MELAS) is quite a mouthful and unfortunately I don't know much about mitochondrial disorders.

This must be quite a blow for an athletically inclined person. I have had brief periods of stiffening up and extreme nausea (and acidosis confirmed by blood lactate monitor) when I was on Olmersartan and it is scary when it first happens and you don't know what is happening.
I don't know a lot about it either and there is no cure or treatment for it. Its discouraging because you can't push yourself. Rocco Dan Baldelli has it. Look at his career. I tend to pull muscles,spasm and feel week a lot. I can train, but have to do whole body workout 3 sets per body part for say 8-10 reps with moderate weight. I have to get that done in 45min. It seems like I can't train 1 bodypart a workout. Also after I 'm doing ok fort say 3-4 weeks then all the symptoms start creeping up. I get winded easy as well. It sucks.

I also have a pituitary microadenoma and several other benign cyst in my body. I 'm getting them removed accept for the pituitary microadenoma. I'm wondering if the Mitochondrial issues caused the cyst to grow do the the energy issues in the cells and the lack of oxygen my body gets.
 

iprimate

New member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
368
I don't know a lot about it either and there is no cure or treatment for it. Its discouraging because you can't push yourself. Rocco Dan Baldelli has it. Look at his career. I tend to pull muscles,spasm and feel week a lot. I can train, but have to do whole body workout 3 sets per body part for say 8-10 reps with moderate weight. I have to get that done in 45min. It seems like I can't train 1 bodypart a workout. Also after I 'm doing ok fort say 3-4 weeks then all the symptoms start creeping up. I get winded easy as well. It sucks.

I also have a pituitary microadenoma and several other benign cyst in my body. I 'm getting them removed accept for the pituitary microadenoma. I'm wondering if the Mitochondrial issues caused the cyst to grow do the the energy issues in the cells and the lack of oxygen my body gets.
Coincidentally, a few weeks ago I read a paper on mitochondrial dysfunction in relation to depression and inflammation. On page 9 it has a table of nutrients and nutraceuticals that comprise what the authors term the mitochondrial cocktail: "[n]utraceuticals acting on the pathogenic cascade...target[ing] the final common pathways of mitochnodrial dysfunction". I scanned that page and attached it. You may get something out of it.

Also, it may be useful if you had a blood lactate monitor to chart you blood lactate level. You may see some patterns or possibly get an early warning of an attack. I have the Roche Accutrend Plus (which also measures glucose and cholesterol) and can recommend it. Maybe also a pulse oximeter?
 

Attachments

dragonfire101

Active member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
5,854
Coincidentally, a few weeks ago I read a paper on mitochondrial dysfunction in relation to depression and inflammation. On page 9 it has a table of nutrients and nutraceuticals that comprise what the authors term the mitochondrial cocktail: "[n]utraceuticals acting on the pathogenic cascade...target[ing] the final common pathways of mitochnodrial dysfunction". I scanned that page and attached it. You may get something out of it.

Also, it may be useful if you had a blood lactate monitor to chart you blood lactate level. You may see some patterns or possibly get an early warning of an attack. I have the Roche Accutrend Plus (which also measures glucose and cholesterol) and can recommend it. Maybe also a pulse oximeter?
Thanks...I'm going to check into the blood lactate monitor.

I posted above what nutrients and supplements I came up with from my readings where Adenosine triphosphate (ATP), Pyruvate, NADH, SOD, Magnesium and Acetyl-L-Carnitine (ALCA).

Q10 and Creatine was mention, but I figure SOD would be better than Q10 , but maybe both. Also I have some Idebenone.


I was thinking Syntheselen may also ...

INGREDIENTS: Magnesium Aspartate, Potassium Aspartate, Heptaminol HCL, Adenosine Triphosphate (ATP), Uridine Triphosphate, Sodium Selenite, Cyanacobalamin (B12)
 
Last edited:

Newman

New member
Registered
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
850
Dragon, thanks for posting your problem here.

For about 8 months I've been struggling with serious cramping and a strange sort of motor nerve failure that manifests as twitching & trembling.

The nerve thing started relatively mildly with just being noticeable as hand tremors, but eventually worsened to the point that it has occassionally been bad enough to affect more significant gross motor activities. As in, jerky bench press motions and knees suddenly buckling when going up stairs etc. When it was relatively minor, I assumed that it due to my excessive coffee drinking, but now I think it must at least be partially attributable to something else. I've never heard of anyone having trembling on flat bench or stumbling on a stairway from too much caffiene...

When these problems first started I searched our archives and read as much as I could. I tried the usual suggested cramping remedies such as taurine, magnesium & electrolyte formulas etc.

I seem to have gotten somewhat better, but unfortunately I'm not sure what, if anything, might have helped because I used multiple remedies concurrently... (my job is pretty physical & I needed quick relief)

I seem to remember reading that calcium is important for nerve activity, but I've also read that it competes for absorption against magnesium, which is a recomended anti cramping nutrient. If true, then products such as CalMag might be money down the drain...

Anyway, the cramping problem seemed to get worse during the hotter summer months, which lead me to think it might be more related to electrolyte loss than any calcium or magnesium defeciency. I've also noticed some serious acid refux heartburn, so I'm planning to try potassium bicarbonate as it should help deacidify my bloodstream while also replenishing an important electrolyte.

Sorry if my post seems like I'm trying to hijack your thread, I just wanted to post my experience & related ideas because of the somewhat similar cramping issues.

God bless you and good luck with your therapy. I hope you get a full recovery.
 

dragonfire101

Active member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
5,854
Dragon, thanks for posting your problem here.

For about 8 months I've been struggling with serious cramping and a strange sort of motor nerve failure that manifests as twitching & trembling.

The nerve thing started relatively mildly with just being noticeable as hand tremors, but eventually worsened to the point that it has occassionally been bad enough to affect more significant gross motor activities. As in, jerky bench press motions and knees suddenly buckling when going up stairs etc. When it was relatively minor, I assumed that it due to my excessive coffee drinking, but now I think it must at least be partially attributable to something else. I've never heard of anyone having trembling on flat bench or stumbling on a stairway from too much caffiene...

When these problems first started I searched our archives and read as much as I could. I tried the usual suggested cramping remedies such as taurine, magnesium & electrolyte formulas etc.

I seem to have gotten somewhat better, but unfortunately I'm not sure what, if anything, might have helped because I used multiple remedies concurrently... (my job is pretty physical & I needed quick relief)

I seem to remember reading that calcium is important for nerve activity, but I've also read that it competes for absorption against magnesium, which is a recomended anti cramping nutrient. If true, then products such as CalMag might be money down the drain...

Anyway, the cramping problem seemed to get worse during the hotter summer months, which lead me to think it might be more related to electrolyte loss than any calcium or magnesium defeciency. I've also noticed some serious acid refux heartburn, so I'm planning to try potassium bicarbonate as it should help deacidify my bloodstream while also replenishing an important electrolyte.

Sorry if my post seems like I'm trying to hijack your thread, I just wanted to post my experience & related ideas because of the somewhat similar cramping issues.

God bless you and good luck with your therapy. I hope you get a full recovery.
How come you don't go see a specialist or go for some testing in general?
 

dragonfire101

Active member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
5,854
What about low level laser infrared therapy?
Isn't that more for chronic pain disorders by increasing mitochondrial signaling for the specific injury site. How does treat mitochondrial issues? My issue is the mitochondrial are not working in my body properly I think the light may be for something different?
 
Last edited:

Newman

New member
Registered
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
850
How come you don't go see a specialist or go for some testing in general?
1. In my area it's next to impossible just to get a GP to accept a new client.

2. Since they know they hold all the cards, most GPs I've had are all incompetant arrogant morons who resent even the suggestion of referring to a specialist. (around here specialist earn nearly double what GPs make)

3. To compound that, no specialist will ever see anyone who lacks a GPs referral...


I did have a good GP, but he suddenly left the clinic & left no forwarding address to his clients. I think it was in his contract with the clinic or something...
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Total page views
500,241,755
Threads
123,051
Messages
2,335,260
Members
154,907
Latest member
jimmyv1966
Top