Boron Vs Proviron

[nothuman]

A bottle of boron is like 3 dollars. Injecting more test leads to more side effects. And worse bloods, higher estrogen. And other side effects.

Baron lowers estrogen frees up more natural test. Is cheaper then test. And had no negative effect. I dont think one can argue just to use more test instead of using some boron.

Like Stewie mentioned, it can raise free estradiol, which is a test nobody here ever gets or is probably aware even exists. Whether that matters in a negative way or not is unknown to me, however. 12mg of daily boron absolutely raised my FT though.

 

[NewSchool82]

Boron also lowers your estrogen level a lot. So I stopped taking it.

 

[FITABOLICREP]

A natural estrogen blocker too. Hmmm You don't want really high estrogen with your test cycles.

Boron also lowers your estrogen level a lot. So I stopped taking it.

 

[nothuman]

Boron also lowers your estrogen level a lot. So I stopped taking it.

So it lowers regular estradiol but raises free estradiol. Kind of odd how that happens.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

I think this is a great option while on trt. I've gone down to 70-100 mgs weekly, for six weeks during june and july.

I know selenium is good for thyroid when coming up a thyroidal supplement or drug , like t3, and needs to be taken alone , thirty minutes before or after a meal, or in between.

Does Boron to work most capable need to be taken in between meals alone, or does it work as good taken with food and other supplements?



Does it raise dht levels or testosterone converting to dht via 5 alpha reductase ?

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

Boron also lowers your estrogen level a lot. So I stopped taking it.

what was your blood work like? what test dose and how many mgs boron, before and after?

what trt dose were on on before you started boron, and ran it through?

have you seen any other lab results on this?

Any studies?

 

[SOUR DIESEL]

Excellent.....

Probably because this thread is about its effects on SHBG in comparison to Mesterolone, not its anti-inflammatory effects.

^^^ohhh i didn't see that in the title? ..or the original post? ..but it does make tons of sense

..i guess alot of guys in this thread are "off topic"


i suppose nobody's going to be interested in the study below either:

Boron Induces Lymphocyte Proliferation and Modulates the Priming Effects of Lipopolysaccharide on Macrophages

Indusmita Routray, Shakir Ali
Published: March 2, 2016https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0150607

Abstract
Chemical mediators of inflammation (CMI) are important in host defense against infection. The reduced capacity of host to induce the secretion of these mediators following infection is one of the factors in host susceptibility to infection. Boron, which has been suggested for its role in infection, is reported in this study to increase lymphocyte proliferation and the secretion of CMI by the lipopolysaccharide (LPS)-stimulated peritoneal macrophages in BALB/c mice. Boron was administered to mice orally as borax at different doses for 10 consecutive days, followed by the stimulation of animals with ovalbumin and isolation of splenocytes for proliferation assay. The lymphocyte subsets were determined by flow cytometry in spleen cell suspension. The mediators of inflammation, TNF-α, IL-6, IL-1β and nitric oxide (NO), were measured in culture supernatant of LPS-primed macrophages isolated from borax treated mice. TNF and ILs were measured by ELISA. NO was determined by Griess test. The expression of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) in macrophages was studied by confocal microscopy. Results showed a significant increase in T and B cell populations, as indicated by an increase in CD4 and CD19, but not CD8, cells. Boron further stimulated the secretion of TNF-α, IL-6, IL-1β, NO and the expression of iNOS by the LPS-primed macrophages. The effect was dose dependent and most significant at a dose level of 4.6 mg/kg b. wt. Taken together, the study concludes that boron at physiological concentration induces lymphocyte proliferation and increases the synthesis and secretion of pro-inflammatory mediators by the LPS-primed macrophages, more specifically the M1 macrophages, possibly acting through Toll-like receptor. The study implicates boron as a regulator of the immune and inflammatory reactions and macrophage polarization, thus playing an important role in augmenting host defense against infection, with possible role in cancer and other diseases.


^^^anyway ..on the topic of "Boron Vs Proviron" ..i'd say this is solid point for BORON

 

[FITABOLICREP]

so if I was to take boron at 12mg per day for cycle and have some proviron laying around how much proviron a day? Prob only gonna do 150-200mg a week of test prop and 200mg a week of dhb

 

[Knight9]

25-75. I'd say 50 though.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Stewie]

^^^ohhh i didn't see that in the title? ..or the original post? ..but it does make tons of sense

..i guess alot of guys in this thread are "off topic"


i suppose nobody's going to be interested in the study below either:

Boron Induces Lymphocyte Proliferation and Modulates the Priming Effects of Lipopolysaccharide on Macrophages

Indusmita Routray, Shakir Ali
Published: March 2, 2016https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0150607

Abstract
Chemical mediators of inflammation (CMI) are important in host defense against infection. The reduced capacity of host to induce the secretion of these mediators following infection is one of the factors in host susceptibility to infection. Boron, which has been suggested for its role in infection, is reported in this study to increase lymphocyte proliferation and the secretion of CMI by the lipopolysaccharide (LPS)-stimulated peritoneal macrophages in BALB/c mice. Boron was administered to mice orally as borax at different doses for 10 consecutive days, followed by the stimulation of animals with ovalbumin and isolation of splenocytes for proliferation assay. The lymphocyte subsets were determined by flow cytometry in spleen cell suspension. The mediators of inflammation, TNF-α, IL-6, IL-1β and nitric oxide (NO), were measured in culture supernatant of LPS-primed macrophages isolated from borax treated mice. TNF and ILs were measured by ELISA. NO was determined by Griess test. The expression of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) in macrophages was studied by confocal microscopy. Results showed a significant increase in T and B cell populations, as indicated by an increase in CD4 and CD19, but not CD8, cells. Boron further stimulated the secretion of TNF-α, IL-6, IL-1β, NO and the expression of iNOS by the LPS-primed macrophages. The effect was dose dependent and most significant at a dose level of 4.6 mg/kg b. wt. Taken together, the study concludes that boron at physiological concentration induces lymphocyte proliferation and increases the synthesis and secretion of pro-inflammatory mediators by the LPS-primed macrophages, more specifically the M1 macrophages, possibly acting through Toll-like receptor. The study implicates boron as a regulator of the immune and inflammatory reactions and macrophage polarization, thus playing an important role in augmenting host defense against infection, with possible role in cancer and other diseases.


^^^anyway ..on the topic of "Boron Vs Proviron" ..i'd say this is solid point for BORON

For the sake of conversation. Allometric interspecies scaling given the dose to this itty-bitty mouse, the HED would be roughly 34mg/90.718kg(200lbs) for a individual.

 

[Swifto]

^^^ohhh i didn't see that in the title? ..or the original post? ..but it does make tons of sense

..i guess alot of guys in this thread are "off topic"


i suppose nobody's going to be interested in the study below either:

Boron Induces Lymphocyte Proliferation and Modulates the Priming Effects of Lipopolysaccharide on Macrophages

Indusmita Routray, Shakir Ali
Published: March 2, 2016https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0150607

Abstract
Chemical mediators of inflammation (CMI) are important in host defense against infection. The reduced capacity of host to induce the secretion of these mediators following infection is one of the factors in host susceptibility to infection. Boron, which has been suggested for its role in infection, is reported in this study to increase lymphocyte proliferation and the secretion of CMI by the lipopolysaccharide (LPS)-stimulated peritoneal macrophages in BALB/c mice. Boron was administered to mice orally as borax at different doses for 10 consecutive days, followed by the stimulation of animals with ovalbumin and isolation of splenocytes for proliferation assay. The lymphocyte subsets were determined by flow cytometry in spleen cell suspension. The mediators of inflammation, TNF-α, IL-6, IL-1β and nitric oxide (NO), were measured in culture supernatant of LPS-primed macrophages isolated from borax treated mice. TNF and ILs were measured by ELISA. NO was determined by Griess test. The expression of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) in macrophages was studied by confocal microscopy. Results showed a significant increase in T and B cell populations, as indicated by an increase in CD4 and CD19, but not CD8, cells. Boron further stimulated the secretion of TNF-α, IL-6, IL-1β, NO and the expression of iNOS by the LPS-primed macrophages. The effect was dose dependent and most significant at a dose level of 4.6 mg/kg b. wt. Taken together, the study concludes that boron at physiological concentration induces lymphocyte proliferation and increases the synthesis and secretion of pro-inflammatory mediators by the LPS-primed macrophages, more specifically the M1 macrophages, possibly acting through Toll-like receptor. The study implicates boron as a regulator of the immune and inflammatory reactions and macrophage polarization, thus playing an important role in augmenting host defense against infection, with possible role in cancer and other diseases.


^^^anyway ..on the topic of "Boron Vs Proviron" ..i'd say this is solid point for BORON

Makes sense if you take the time to read post #3 or what the OP was asking.

Can you take Boron along side proviron? Was thinking of taking 25mg of proviron and 12mg of boron a day along side my run of test and DHB.

Raises free test. In a natural way

 

[NewSchool82]

what was your blood work like? what test dose and how many mgs boron, before and after?

what trt dose were on on before you started boron, and ran it through?

have you seen any other lab results on this?

Any studies?

I’m on 130mg of TRT and take .5 of arimidex split a week. Started taking boron @6mg in the morning. No blood work but when I took it after the 1st week I started feeling lethargic and no more morning wood. Never noticed any benefits from the free testosterone. It was probably very minimal if it helped.

 

[SOUR DIESEL]

For the sake of conversation.
^^^but of course ..what other reason could there be?
..validity perhaps?

Allometric interspecies scaling given the dose to this itty-bitty mouse,
^^^fancy term, but completely misappropriated here ..i mean you didn't really expect those mice to be given a hippopotamus dose, right?

the HED would be roughly 34mg/90.718kg(200lbs) for a individual.
^^^and?? ..what's your point? ..34mg is far from outrageous for a human?
..and it's still VERY VERY cheap/cost effective!!

^^^replied in Red

..gotta love these "blinded him with science" responses
..that fail to blind

***i like your posts ..you write a lot of good stuff, you do
..unfortunately your post above is not an example of that

Probably because this thread is about its effects on SHBG in comparison to Mesterolone, not its anti-inflammatory effects.

Makes sense if you take the time to read post #3 or what the OP was asking.

^^^you know i went back and i rereadeded them ..and i still didn't see SHBG mentioned? ..or in either of the quotes that you captured above?

..these threads are open discussions on all thing relative ..you act like i was trying to discuss UFOs

thread title is "Boron Vs Proviron"
^^^i observed and mentioned a HUGE secondary benefit of BORON that was being over looked
..it's clearly an additional reason to (..perhaps) consider BORON over PROVIRON


my post was completely relative and on topic ..relax, stop being ridiculous

 

[Stewie]

^^^replied in Red

..gotta love these "blinded him with science" responses
..that fail to blind

***i like your posts ..you write a lot of good stuff, you do
..unfortunately your post above is not an example of that

Apparently that quickly drifted past any comprehension with your failed attempts to belittle a conversation, feeling a-bit callous today? At no point did I remonstrate that it doesn't play a role as immunoregulatory nutraceutical.

How about next time use human subjects literature rather than trying to extrapolate mouse models, was my point. Let's see, 10mg sufficed accordingly to the work of~Mohammad RezaNaghii et al (2011 Jan;25(1):54-8. doi: 10.1016/j.jtemb.2010.10.001. Epub 2010 Dec 3).

Next time I'll PM you for your approval of what I can or can't post, capiche?

 

[FITABOLICREP]

Maybe you crashed your T. Since boron does lower estrogen and you are taking arimdex. Just food for thought. Wonder what would happen if you stopped the arimidex

I’m on 130mg of TRT and take .5 of arimidex split a week. Started taking boron @6mg in the morning. No blood work but when I took it after the 1st week I started feeling lethargic and no more morning wood. Never noticed any benefits from the free testosterone. It was probably very minimal if it helped.

 

[Swifto]

Apparently that quickly drifted past any comprehension with your failed attempts to belittle a conversation, feeling a-bit callous today? At no point did I remonstrate that it doesn't play a role as immunoregulatory nutraceutical.

How about next time use human subjects literature rather than trying to extrapolate mouse models, was my point. Let's see, 10mg sufficed accordingly to the work of~Mohammad RezaNaghii et al (2011 Jan;25(1):54-8. doi: 10.1016/j.jtemb.2010.10.001. Epub 2010 Dec 3).

Next time I'll PM you for your approval of what I can or can't post, capiche?

My mother always told me not to argue with idiots.

 

[SOUR DIESEL]

Apparently that quickly drifted past any comprehension with your failed attempts to belittle a conversation,
^^^i think you might be upset bc nothing "drifted" past my comprehension
..and where did i belittle anything?
..i pretty sure that's what you did when you started you reply with "for the sake of conversation" ..like you were doing us all a favor

feeling a-bit callous today?
^^^i'll be honest, the coffee isn't what it usually is

At no point did I remonstrate that it doesn't play a role as immunoregulatory nutraceutical.
^^^ummm well that's bc "at no point" in my reply did i suggest i that you had "remonstrated" <-lol ..that it didn't either

How about next time use human subjects literature rather than trying to extrapolate mouse models, was my point. Let's see, 10mg sufficed
^^^i didn't "extrapolate" shit ..i presented it ..at best as suggestive ..never challenged the dose either
..just stated that 34mg for a 200lbs individual was not "outrageous" as may have been derived from your "scientifically-coded" reply

hence i asked "what's your point?" ..to which you replied with this emotional garbage

accordingly to the work of~Mohammad RezaNaghii et al (2011 Jan;25(1):54-8. doi: 10.1016/j.jtemb.2010.10.001. Epub 2010 Dec 3).
^^^congratulation ..you found another study to my point ..and correct, this one involves humans ..how very perceptive of you

Next time I'll PM you for your approval of what I can or can't post, capiche?
^^^now where did what i wrote even remotely suggest that
.."capiche" <-lmao, i think you watch too many movies

^^^especially funny considering that above, you'r the one who told me
"How about next time use....."
^^^sounds like a command to me, no?

^^^replied in Red



PS ..sure looks like you get "inflamed" easily ..may i suggest some BORON? ..10mg will suffice



.

 

[Swifto]

Rather than argue with members here that have forgotten more than you'll ever know and are making you look more of an idiot that you already are. Perhaps read the Rules here and follow them.

I'll direct you to Rule #22 below:

22) Keep signatures to unobtrusive text unless you are board staff, a sponsor, a sponsor representative, or a board supporter. Keep avatars within reason. No pornographic or obscene images or images of recreational drug behavior are tolerated. Sponsors and their reps cannot have banners in their signatures that are larger than the banner they pay for to advertise on the board.


Now go and change the size of the image/banner of Arnold in your signature you moron.

 

[SOUR DIESEL]

My mother always told me not to argue with idiots.

^^^so what?? ..she also told you that you were a great kisser ..and to call anyone smarter than you an idiot

 

[jayl19]

Maybe you crashed your T. Since boron does lower estrogen and you are taking arimdex. Just food for thought. Wonder what would happen if you stopped the arimidex

I have to agree with this, 1/4 adex 2x per week destroys my e2 even with 500 test, you need blood work to be sure though

I’m not as intelligent as some of you science guys, but from what I can understand

If your on trt or sub 200mg test use boron to get the most out of you trt/cruise

If your on a cycle (500mg test or more) then boron is worthless so use prov if you really want to elevate free test

Main reason I wanted to use boron on cycle was to raise free test with out messing up cholesterols, back to the drawing board, maybe mast is a better option for me