Carb depletion- loding problems

[emeric delczeg]

Typically ,bodybuilders are advised to do long, slow aerobic exercise such as walking the Stairmasters or walking on the treadmil to exhaustion for the depletion phase of a carbo loading cycle. This advice is completely wrong. This system is good for a marathon runners. What bbs need to do is very high repetitions with light weights in the widest variety of exercises. The secret is that depletion has to be sufficient to stimulate the activity of the glycogen storage enzyme(glycogen synthase). Without that the execess carb turn into bodyfat.

Next proble is eating to little carbs durind depletion.
Next problem eating to much carbs after the first 24 hours lodind phase, after the first 24 hours, the loding response diminishes.
Next unnecessary to deplete glycogen to the degree that promotes ketosis.
Next when to start carb loding, delaying the start of carb loding even two hours after the finish of depleting exercise reduces the loding response.
This is just few of the problems. Many bbs breake all these rules and than wonder why they never get the benifits of carb depletion and carb loding.

 

[oldfella]

Very good points Emeric.
What if a bber were to simply follow a strict competition diet all the way through to his/her show? No depleteing, no loading! Just keep doing what got you ripped to begin with and simply add some carbs the night before to fill you out a bit. From my experiences and shows I have done and from seeing many athletes prep for shows we all look stage ready and fantastic about a week out. Then we go and do the traditional thing, carb deplete and then load and end up smaller, or spill over. I have been told by many that I looked better 10 days out than on stage. My next show, whenever that will be I am going to do just that. Keep eating the diet that got me there to begin with and try to manipulate water the night before. Again I think we overcomplicate things and look for the magic fix 24-48 hours before our shows. Been there, done that!

 

[emeric delczeg]

Very good points Emeric.
What if a bber were to simply follow a strict competition diet all the way through to his/her show? No depleteing, no loading! Just keep doing what got you ripped to begin with and simply add some carbs the night before to fill you out a bit. From my experiences and shows I have done and from seeing many athletes prep for shows we all look stage ready and fantastic about a week out. Then we go and do the traditional thing, carb deplete and then load and end up smaller, or spill over. I have been told by many that I looked better 10 days out than on stage. My next show, whenever that will be I am going to do just that. Keep eating the diet that got me there to begin with and try to manipulate water the night before. Again I think we overcomplicate things and look for the magic fix 24-48 hours before our shows. Been there, done that!

Yes, that is the best way, just do the same protocol to the day of the contest.

Also an other big mistake that the duration of depletion is more than one day.

The 3 day depletion is not for bodybulders.

 

[BULK_CITY]

is there anyway to see how many carbs you need, how much you are depleting your glycogen, and what types of carbs/when to eat them (during the load)? or is it all just trial and error? (if so - is there anything you could watch/feel to help you gauge this more accurately)

great thread

 

[emeric delczeg]

is there anyway to see how many carbs you need, how much you are depleting your glycogen, and what types of carbs/when to eat them (during the load)? or is it all just trial and error? (if so - is there anything you could watch/feel to help you gauge this more accurately)

great thread

It dipend on how much is your lean muscle body weight , if you 250+ lbs and 3-5% body fat tahn I would not go under 200g carbs during depletion. In the first 3 hours after depletion, simple sugar carbs should be consumed. Remember the first 10 hours is the moste important in carb loding phase.

 

[JonnyO]

I think for some people they need to deplete and carb load to get the really full look. I know for myself I could not just cruise into the show without depleting and loading. It gives my physique a way different look. It takes alot for me to fill out.

 

[Big Bapper]

It dipend on how much is your lean muscle body weight , if you 250+ lbs and 3-5% body fat tahn I would not go under 200g carbs during depletion. In the first 3 hours after depletion, simple sugar carbs should be consumed. Remember the first 10 hours is the moste important in carb loding phase.

How many simple carb meals and how far should the meals be apart during the first part of the carb load before switching to a more complex carb source.

 

[emeric delczeg]

I think for some people they need to deplete and carb load to get the really full look. I know for myself I could not just cruise into the show without depleting and loading. It gives my physique a way different look. It takes alot for me to fill out.

That hapens when some one is depleting for 3 days and it consuming last than 150 g carbs per day. I don`t recomend depleting, but if I would , than I would eat Monday 150g carbs and I would do sum abs, calves and 45 min cardio. Tuesday morning I would go to the Gym 6 AM and I would do high repetition light weights on every body part no cardio. Than immediately after depletion I would start the loding with 100g drink of glucose polymer solution, after the first hour I would eat 50g carbs every 1 1/2 hour up to 600g in the the first 24 hours, exept for very big men 230+. Wednesday no training just posing and I would consume 350g. Thursday, Friday 250g carbs.

 

[Fa Seeshus]

Tuesday morning I would go to the Gym 6 AM and I would do high repetition light weights on every body part no cardio

legs too, or no?



i def did better off last show when i did all the recarbing early. too many carbs in the last day makes me hold water and have abdominal distension

 

[emeric delczeg]

Tuesday morning I would go to the Gym 6 AM and I would do high repetition light weights on every body part no cardio

legs too, or no?



i def did better off last show when i did all the recarbing early. too many carbs in the last day makes me hold water and have abdominal distension

Yes, legs too.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Another problem with depletion and loding is that loding occurs only in the muscles exercised. Try this out: exercise one leg to exhaustin, than sit around and eat carbs for tow days, the glycogen content on the exercised leg will increase above its pre -exercise level, but the glycogen content of the other leg will remain unchanged. So walking on the Stairmester will depled the legs, but arms,chest,back, sholders are hardly used and will not lod with glycogen above habitual levels. So for bodybulder no cardio tyip depletin recomended.

When you muscles are severly depleted of glycogen and you eat very little carbs( 50mg per day) puts you body in Ketosis which accompanied with, fatigue, nausea, headach,dizzines,confusion,irritability,anxiety and high production of cortisol and cortisol will make you retain water. So is not necessary to deplete to the degree that promotes ketosis. In fact only a mild depletion from your normal carbohydrate intake should be.

 

[Fa Seeshus]

does low sodium intake in anyway effect the re-carb?

by tuesday i'm just drinking distilled water.

 

[emeric delczeg]

does low sodium intake in anyway effect the re-carb?

by tuesday i'm just drinking distilled water.

No low sodium would not effect carb loding but don`t go to low with the sodium. You don`t have to drink distilled water.

Sodium, potassium, and chloride are the 3 main electrolytes in the human body. Sodium is the main positively changed electrolyte outside the cell.

With out of sodium the whole electrochemical machine of the body would stop working in a second.

 

[oldfella]

Emeric, I just wanted to thank you for opening up this discussion on depleteing and loading. Ther information you are sharing with us is invaluable to those who compete.
Many thanks for your wisdom here!!

 

[chris250]

emeric,

Thank you for sharing this with us...For the NA's im not going to do anything crazy...Just keep doing what I was doing to get me lean....Drop my water out late friday night (actully Thursday night, friday nite pre-judging) and eat a few extra carbs on Friday morning and afternoon...

chris

 

[emeric delczeg]

emeric,

Thank you for sharing this with us...For the NA's im not going to do anything crazy...Just keep doing what I was doing to get me lean....Drop my water out late friday night (actully Thursday night, friday nite pre-judging) and eat a few extra carbs on Friday morning and afternoon...

chris

During the last 3 days before the show, don`t take any creatine.

Unlike muscle glycogen, which can be used directly for energy, blood glucose first has to go through a chemical conversion called phosphorylation, it is only a simple conversion of the glucose by adding phosphate. This conversion is done by an enzyme called hexokinase. Hexokinase is the limiting step in the body`s use of glucose. The phosphates from creatine would not take care the phosphorylation and would make you retain water, the best product to use for phosphorylation is Phytin. I will send you 1 free bottle of Energy X so you can try it out, the Energy X has 250mg Phytin.

 

[forcedreps13]

Thanks E . This is a great thread. I have noticed that when I have dep/loaded it's been a hit or miss method, leaning more towards the miss than the hit. I have a figure gal that is doing a show next weekend and I believe I'm going to follow your advice. I'll let you know how she does.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Thanks E . This is a great thread. I have noticed that when I have dep/loaded it's been a hit or miss method, leaning more towards the miss than the hit. I have a figure gal that is doing a show next weekend and I believe I'm going to follow your advice. I'll let you know how she does.

Muscle glycogen synthesis after exercise or depletion ,occurs in two phases, a very rapid rate of synthesis for about 4-6 hours,most rapid in the first 2 hours, than a much slower rate for the next 24 hours. That way is very important to start carb loding emidietly after depletion. The amount and type of carbs are also very important. For the maximum rate of synthesis in the first 4 hours after depletion occurs by consuming 250 to 300 grams of carbs, (depending on body weight). Above that there is no further effect. The first carbs after depletion should be simple sugar, when your muscles have a high demand for glycogen replacement, the glucose is shunted into muscle so fast that no insulin instability can occur. Second drink should be 25% simple and 75% complex carb all liquid form, and the rest of the day complex carbs only.

Remember that muscle glycogen levels plateau at an intake of 550 to 650 grams of carbohydrates per day, depending on lean muscle body weight and training intensity.

 

[oldfella]

Is there any benefit from taking in simple carbs during training then? Would this aid in the replenishment of muscle glycogen once you stopped training for this period? Also what about sugar jut prior to training, maybe in the form of fruit? This is a great thread Emeric!!

 

[emeric delczeg]

Is there any benefit from taking in simple carbs during training then? Would this aid in the replenishment of muscle glycogen once you stopped training for this period? Also what about sugar jut prior to training, maybe in the form of fruit? This is a great thread Emeric!!

The best way to achive correct carb nutriotion is to divide carbohydrate into 3 catagories:
1. carbs before exercise
2. carbs during exercise
3. carbs after exercise

The moste important to take carbs 2 hours before training, studies have confirmed that the level of glycogen in the muscle before you start exercise,is the most important fuel determinat of performance.
If you eat 80 to 100 g carbs before training is not nesesary to eat fructose or sugar. But if you in rush and you can`t eat 2 hours before training than sugar is OK just before training with added phosphate supplement.

During exercise is not that important, however if you don`t have optimal levels of muscle glycogen at the start of exercise than additional carbohydrates taken during exercise with added supplements would boost up an already deficient supply. I know some people would say that glucose from carbohydrates just digested cannot be used by the muscle as effectively as muscle glycogen formed from carbohydrates taken some horurs previously, that is true becose needs phosphorylation, sounds complicated but it is only a simple conversion of the glucose by adding phosphate. So I take phosphate supplemen before training and did healp me. This is all my concept and it works for me.

Next moste important time to take carbohydrates is post training.