clen and heart damage, some interesting lab studies published

[mike ross]

will dig up the link later but here is a brief summary

scientists studied high dosages of clen in rats for a short period. the results were very shocking in that even though the duration of administration was short, like a week or so, dosing done daily, heart muscle was damaged beyond repair, particularly the left ventricular area via apoptosis. this is quite interesting news, since permanent damage of heart muscle is a no-no. even with a trained, enlarged, heart, damaged tissue will stress the heart more, creating heart failure sooner. the left ventricle is responsible for filling your heart with blood then ejecting through the rest of the circulation path. enlargement effects this greatly in that if you heart "overfills" or cant eject the blood properly, hypertrophy begins, and heart disease/failure will occur

cant remember off hand the doses of clen, but they were no where near the LD50 values for humans or rats, they were shockingly lower.

just some fyi stuff for you guys, evaluate your goals and reach them safely, you dont want to be a heart transplant candidate at any point in your life. will post the study later or at least a link

article summary

Dose-dependent apoptotic and necrotic myocyte death induced by the beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonist, clenbuterol.

Burniston JG, Chester N, Clark WA, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

Research Institute for Sport and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Webster Street, Liverpool L3 2ET, UK.

We have investigated the dose- and time-dependency of myocyte apoptosis and necrosis induced by the beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonist, clenbuterol, with the aim of determining whether myocyte apoptosis and necrosis are two separate processes or a continuum of events. Male Wistar rats were administered subcutaneous injections of clenbuterol, and immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte-specific apoptosis and necrosis. Myocyte apoptosis peaked 4 h after, and necrosis 12 h after, clenbuterol administration. In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 +/- 2.0%; P < 0.05) was induced by 10 mug and peak necrosis (7.4 +/- 1.7%; P < 0.05) by 5 mg.kg(-1) clenbuterol. Twelve hours after clenbuterol administration, 73% of damaged myocytes labeled as necrotic, 27% as apoptotic and necrotic, and 0% as purely apoptotic. Administrations of clenbuterol (10 mug.kg(-1)) at 48-h intervals induced cumulative myocyte death over 8 days. These data show that the phenotype of myocyte death is dependent on the magnitude of the insult and the time at which it is investigated. Only very low doses induced apoptosis alone; in most cases apoptotic myocytes lysed and became necrotic and the magnitude of necrosis was greater than that of apoptosis. Thus, it is important to investigate both apoptotic and necrotic myocyte death, contrary to the current trend of only investigating apoptotic cell death. Muscle Nerve, 2005.

PMID: 16007677 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

 

[bigbaldbulldog]

i have heard rumors of this type for years but never saw proof...this should make some of us think more about things we do ...

 

[BULKING_N]

I did read a similar article on clen inducing cardiac necrosis too. I believe it can be the similar link you got ... Let me see if I can find it.

 

[Skip]

I am glad to see someone post this but I assure you it probably won't get much attention here. I have used clen in the past and since finding research this past year like what is posted above, I recommend to ANYONE that is wanting to use it, not to. Just do your fucking cardio and leave this stuff alone. I have pushed it right close to the top of the list of things for guys NOT to take.

Skip

 

[ELIMINATOR]

I will never use clen agian.

 

[draven]

hmmm

anyone want a bottle of it ....lion nutrition.....im not fucking with it after that read....heart damage pemanently or chance of it not worth it........time to up cardio another 10 mins.....

as an after thougt how the fuck these crack and meth-heads live to even 50?

 

[Conan21]

i agree with you eliminator

i've done about 2 or 3 two week cycles of this before. Hope i didn't fuck anything up. scary shit

 

[mike ross]

necrosis is one thing, but apoptosis is so much harder to cause in the body. i used to do clen in college and one time my heart rate was way out of whack. now i know why and never again will i do it. thankfully at my checkup last year all was well and my bpm and bp were perfect for an athletic person, so i guess no long term damage. just trying to inform you guys, thats what this board is about.

 

[Massive G]

I got a bunch of links of clenbuterol toxicity and poisoning in Europe where it is widely used on cattle.
Plus a few on the heart dmamge.
Gonna be a lot of lifters with heart problems in about 20 years as this shit is abused big time especially in women.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9610490

"1: Vet Hum Toxicol. 1998 Jun;40(3):141-3. Related Articles, Links


Clenbuterol residues in non-liver containing meat as a cause of collective food poisoning.

Sporano V, Grasso L, Esposito M, Oliviero G, Brambilla G, Loizzo A.

Dipartimento di Chimica, Istituto Zooprofilattico Sperimentale del Mezzogiorno, Portici, Italy.

beta 2-adrenergic agonists, particularly clenbuterol, are illegally used as growth promoters to obtain lean in meat. Their administration in feedlots can constitute a severe risk for animal welfare and exposes consumers to involuntary drug consumption at pharmacological active concentrations. Reported poisoning episodes have been associated with the consumption of beef liver where clenbuterol residues concentrate. In August 1996, 62 persons asked for medical help at the emergency rooms of 2 hospitals near the city of Caserta (Italy). Their clinical profile was characteristic of previously occurring clenbuterol intoxication, which reported superventricular extrasystoles and atrial fibrillation. All patients had non-liver beef meat consumption 10-30 min to 2-3 h before symptoms developed. An ELISA screening test specific for clenbuterol confirmed the drug's presence. Definitive confirmation of clenbuterol and determination of the drug content in meat samples were obtained by GC-MS, using 2 different derivatization. Concentrations in the meats ranged from 0.8 to 7.4 mg/kg. These analytical data provided evidence of the seriousness of the poisoning and helped the National Health System identify other possible misinterpreted cases. This case demonstrates that clenbuterol poisoning can also occur after consumption of beef meat other than liver."

 

[rugbythug]

The study I read on rats they were using 5mg/kg of rat body weight. That would fuck up anybody's heart.

 

[Big A]

Yes, but the doses in those studies are HUGE.

5mg/kg? That is 600,000mcg/day for someone my weight!
Even 10mcg/kg is 1,200mcg/day.

Clen doses range between 80mcg and 160mcg per day max. If you use more than that, there something else really wrong with your diet, etc.

 

[JonnyO]

I am always a bit skeptical about a study done on rats, show me one on a human thats a different story.

 

[Massive G]

I'll see if I can find some more stuff..I had a bunch of articles a while ago-that were human.
As with everything Bodybuilders push the envelope with extreme doses and use, and over extended time that can lead to the damage.
I choose not to use clen basically because it sucks IMO, I get hot, can't sleep, tremors, headaches, cramps, minor minor strains and muscle pulls-very little benefit for me.
but if it worked for me I'd prolly thow caution to the wind too.
One less thing I gotta worry about in a cocktail of drugs and lifestyle to get big which further would complicate the problems with my heart and BP from this lifestyle over ten years running now.

 

[BULKING_N]

Then again like Big A said, the dosages were pretty huge for the rat per lb weight as compared to the nominal dosage for human consumption. With clen isnt 60-120 mcg considered sufficent. Some use up to 200 mcg .Remember this is an average of 150 ''MICRO'' dose for a say, 220+ individual. Compare that to 5 MILLI per kg of the rodent's weight. And whats the average weight of a rodent? I know alot of you guys are really detered by this study, so am I but Is there a study when the rats were given a more ''realistic'' dose comparable to the dosage a human will take?

 

[bigbaldbulldog]

PIGS

Since Pigs have a heart very much like ours , i would like to see studies done with them at real streeet dosages...

 

[New_Mass]

dosages were rediculous also we have to take into consideration that the rats weren't taking any supplements(vit.c,lecithin,fish oil,etc) to help counter some of the problems. like Big A said dosages takin around 80mcgs to 160mcgs along with supplements is far from these extreme studies

 

[xcelbeyond]

I'm no scientist but aren't studies almost always done at high doses to simulate duration and other factors. Studies are never done at normal doses - they just deduce results back to normal levels. I'm not trying to point out right or wrong, just this is the way most studies (warnings) are developed.

Fact is these results are very eye-opening!

 

[IRONMAN83]

mike ross,

Thanks a million for posting that bro! Im using clen right now and ive heard of stuff like this before but wasnt able to dig up any conclusive evidence. This is it for me though, high dose, low dose, fact is that clen has the potential to irrepairably damage heart muscle which is not something im willing risk, period.

Anybody wanna buy some clen??...Ill give you a good deal.

 

[BULKING_N]

it's strange how you never see such extensive studies on the adverse effects in the use of childrens aspirin, lamisil and the other million prescription and over the counter drugs out there!

 

[Massive G]

it's strange how you never see such extensive studies on the adverse effects in the use of childrens aspirin, lamisil and the other million prescription and over the counter drugs out there!

You won't nor you ever will, even babee aspirin is slighty hepatotoxic but most guys I know supplement it for the clotting protection.
I personally knew a girl in College that had a liver transplant @ 20.
she had a cold for 2 months and drank Nyquill just about ever night for that time and it ate her liver live with a lethal combination of alcohol and tylenol.
NSAIDS like Ibuprofen are extremely toxic to the kidneys, especially if taken frequently and high doses.
Tom Prince was quoted as taking a handful of (8-12) ibuprofen at a time-3-4 times a day or more for joint pain.
That led to his kidney problems. ONE ibuprofen can put a 50 lb dog in renal failure. A few years ago my doc put me on Celebrex 100 mg for joint pain increased it to 200 mg then 400 mg a day and said I could take tylenol with it too.
NOT for me I quit the stuff. Turns out it is pretty toxic to the kidneys and liver over time too like vioxx was found to be linked to ?heart problems?
viagra is now being linked to blindness and vision problems I recall. What about anti-D's tha's fuggin with your brain chemistry right there-extremely over prescribed and misused in thsi country IMO.

My post wasn't meant to be harsh people are gonna take clen but if used year round and at high doses in addition to heavybody weights/enlarged hearts/high BP/thickened blood/high cholesterol etc it's exasperating the problem even more.