Cycle Review

[5004paloma]

Please comment on my planned 1st AAS cycle. I've been researching and reading for almost a year now - so I didn't just copy this from somewhere.

I'm 38, ~200lbs, been training seriously for last couple years (but on & off for 2 decades). I take an SSRI so Nolvadex is not considered. I have good blood chemistry and want to keep it that way (I have heart disease in my family) therefore lipid health is important. This is the reason for Exemestane on cycle.

19 Week Total Cycle

1. TEST E 250mg/2x Week during week 1-12
2. Aromasin (Exemestane) 12.5mg EOD during week 1-14 (chosen for lipids profile)
3. SERM (Toremifene citrate) - 60mg ED week 14, 15; 30mg ED week 16, 17; 15mg ED week 18
4. Clenbuterol 20mcg to 80mcg (increasing as appropriate) ED - weeks 13 thru 19 with 5 day break every 15 days (using benedryl)
5. IGF-1 DES 1,3 @ 40mcg / day PWO - weeks 12 thru 19
6. PEG MGF @ 500mcg 3x/week AM of WO days - weeks 12 thru 19

It's a straight forward 1st AAS cycle - from what I have researched. PLEASE comment on it and make constructive suggestions.

 

[JM1219]

I'm curious as to why you're running clen during PCT.
Also, doesn't MGF have a bad wrap? From what I've read it's fairly useless, especially for the price. Why not just go the GHRP/GRF 1-29 route?

 

[pesty4077]

I have no idea why guys want to take so many different things their first cycle. I also notice you didn't say once about your diet, interesting.

 

[5004paloma]

I'm curious as to why you're running clen during PCT.
Also, doesn't MGF have a bad wrap? From what I've read it's fairly useless, especially for the price. Why not just go the GHRP/GRF 1-29 route?

Thanks for reviewing. The reason for the Clen during PCT is to help lean out a bit while I reduce my calories post cycle while preventing loss of muscle mass. The research I've done on clen seems to show it has the ability to prevent to loss of muscle tissue while in a lowered calorie state. Furthermore, some claim it helps with cortisol level that tend to be high comming off-cycle.

I've run IGF-1 with good success without MGF. Since, I've read extensively about how MGF and IGF-1 work together. MGF increases satellite cell number. IGF-1 increases cell density and causes the satellite cells to fuse with muscle fibers. This is the hyperPLASIA effect peptides can have vs. hyperTROPHY. My source for PEG MGF is fairly reasonable.

GHRP/GRF 1-29 is a definite alternative. In fact, I'm planning on running GHRP-2 & GRF 1-29 after the IGF-1 cycle to boost my natural GH production after any suppression caused by the IGF-1 cycle. Have you used GHRP/GRF? I'd love to hear about your experience. I've read extensively about it over at Dat's site. Sounds like great stuff...

Thanks again for the comments.

 

[5004paloma]

I have no idea why guys want to take so many different things their first cycle. I also notice you didn't say once about your diet, interesting.

Thanks for the response. Actually, the cycle is only Test E with estrogen control. PCT includes a SERM and a couple things to hang onto my gains (clen and peptides).

Glad you asked about my diet. I'm 5'8 @ 200lbs and a hefty 20% body fat. My diet macros now are 40/40/20 protein/carbs/fat @ 2800-3000 kcal / day. Carbs are exclusively complex - steel cut oats, quinoa, brown rice, sweet potatoes, limited fruit and are only eaten PWO or by themselves (no mixing fats with carbs). For fiber, I try to eat lots of leafy greens and veggies - spinach, mustard & collard greens, carrots, cabbage, legumes, okra, green beans and brussel sprouts. Protein is 80% lean - skinless chicken, wild caught fish, turkey, egg whites, whey isolate and 20% fatty beef & pork. Fats are olive oil, flax oil with the remainder from fish & beef.

Planned on-cycle diet is largely the same with a calorie increase to 3500 kcal / day. Macros going to 50/40/10 protein/carbs/fat = 400-500g protein / day & 300-400g carbs / day & 80-90g fats / day.

Oh yeah, I don't drink or do drugs ... er... except for a few

 

[pesty4077]

Thanks for the response. Actually, the cycle is only Test E with estrogen control. PCT includes a SERM and a couple things to hang onto my gains (clen and peptides).

Glad you asked about my diet. I'm 5'8 @ 200lbs and a hefty 20% body fat. My diet macros now are 40/40/20 protein/carbs/fat @ 2800-3000 kcal / day. Carbs are exclusively complex - steel cut oats, quinoa, brown rice, sweet potatoes, limited fruit and are only eaten PWO or by themselves (no mixing fats with carbs). For fiber, I try to eat lots of leafy greens and veggies - spinach, mustard & collard greens, carrots, cabbage, legumes, okra, green beans and brussel sprouts. Protein is 80% lean - skinless chicken, wild caught fish, turkey, egg whites, whey isolate and 20% fatty beef & pork. Fats are olive oil, flax oil with the remainder from fish & beef.

Planned on-cycle diet is largely the same with a calorie increase to 3500 kcal / day. Macros going to 50/40/10 protein/carbs/fat = 400-500g protein / day & 300-400g carbs / day & 80-90g fats / day.

Oh yeah, I don't drink or do drugs ... er... except for a few

Well, I tend to think at 20% BF, you are definitley doing something wrong. I don't care what macros you take in, if you don't burn a certain amount of calories, it won't be effective. Do you know your BMR is? Even though I like Dat and his knowledge, I tend to think that alot guys go over board with petides and not enough on proper diets. If you are taking in 2800 calories at 20% Bf and you want to jump to 3500 calories what do you think is going to happen. By the way, PCT doesn't hang on to muscle gain, diet does that to an extent. Once off the test, you will lose some of those gains, that is a fact. You need consistancy, time and a proper diet for long term gains.

 

[SOCOM]

Please comment on my planned 1st AAS cycle. I've been researching and reading for almost a year now - so I didn't just copy this from somewhere.

I'm 38, ~200lbs, been training seriously for last couple years (but on & off for 2 decades). I take an SSRI so Nolvadex is not considered. I have good blood chemistry and want to keep it that way (I have heart disease in my family) therefore lipid health is important. This is the reason for Exemestane on cycle.

19 Week Total Cycle

1. TEST E 250mg/2x Week during week 1-12
2. Aromasin (Exemestane) 12.5mg EOD during week 1-14 (chosen for lipids profile)
3. SERM (Toremifene citrate) - 60mg ED week 14, 15; 30mg ED week 16, 17; 15mg ED week 18
4. Clenbuterol 20mcg to 80mcg (increasing as appropriate) ED - weeks 13 thru 19 with 5 day break every 15 days (using benedryl)
5. IGF-1 DES 1,3 @ 40mcg / day PWO - weeks 12 thru 19
6. PEG MGF @ 500mcg 3x/week AM of WO days - weeks 12 thru 19

It's a straight forward 1st AAS cycle - from what I have researched. PLEASE comment on it and make constructive suggestions.

I would just run the Test along with a good fat burner...

I've read Clen can be very damaging to the heart, dont know for sure..just going on what Ive read on the board..

 

[RESTLESS1]

Please comment on my planned 1st AAS cycle. I've been researching and reading for almost a year now - so I didn't just copy this from somewhere.

I'm 38, ~200lbs, been training seriously for last couple years (but on & off for 2 decades). I take an SSRI so Nolvadex is not considered. I have good blood chemistry and want to keep it that way (I have heart disease in my family) therefore lipid health is important. This is the reason for Exemestane on cycle.

19 Week Total Cycle

1. TEST E 250mg/2x Week during week 1-12
2. Aromasin (Exemestane) 12.5mg EOD during week 1-14 (chosen for lipids profile)
3. SERM (Toremifene citrate) - 60mg ED week 14, 15; 30mg ED week 16, 17; 15mg ED week 18
4. Clenbuterol 20mcg to 80mcg (increasing as appropriate) ED - weeks 13 thru 19 with 5 day break every 15 days (using benedryl)
5. IGF-1 DES 1,3 @ 40mcg / day PWO - weeks 12 thru 19
6. PEG MGF @ 500mcg 3x/week AM of WO days - weeks 12 thru 19

It's a straight forward 1st AAS cycle - from what I have researched. PLEASE comment on it and make constructive suggestions.

jmo........there are no guarantees you will remain healthy on any cycle......i do however agree you have made a wise decision just running test at 500mg.....that was my first cycle and i made good gains......i would rethink using the aromasin maybe until you needed it......with 500mg you are really only getting about 350mg of actual test......you may not need an anti e......i hope all goes well.....be safe

 

[PsyT]

those peptides can elevate prolactin and give you gyno.

that would suck on your cycle since you wouldnt understand where it was coming from and would probably up the AI to control it and that would crash your estrogen levels and your gains and joints would go to fucking shit.

One way your complicated cycle could fuck you over.

 

[PsyT]

ps my opinion is that you leave the drugs that bind to your pituitary gland alone!(the peps)

 

[5004paloma]

Well, I tend to think at 20% BF, you are definitley doing something wrong. I don't care what macros you take in, if you don't burn a certain amount of calories, it won't be effective. Do you know your BMR is? Even though I like Dat and his knowledge, I tend to think that alot guys go over board with petides and not enough on proper diets. If you are taking in 2800 calories at 20% Bf and you want to jump to 3500 calories what do you think is going to happen. By the way, PCT doesn't hang on to muscle gain, diet does that to an extent. Once off the test, you will lose some of those gains, that is a fact. You need consistancy, time and a proper diet for long term gains.

Thanks, Pesty. I appreciate your advice. I calculated my BMR at ~ 1900 (1941 to be exact) using the following equation:

BMR = (LBM / 2.2 X 21.6) + 370

From that I got a maintenance calorie requirement of ~ 3000kcal (BMR X 1.55)

What is your opinion of the 1.55 multiplier for someone who weight-trains 3x per week for ~ 60-90 min and does 45min cardio 2x per week? I'm more concerned with strength training / power lifting than body building for competitions (never catch me on-stage, nor would you want to!). However, I am working to put a diet plan together to work towards 12-14% body fat. I've been 14.8% (according to my calipers) in the last 12 months and that was a bitch. HIIT worked but that is a killer...and it killed my 5x5 program recovery. I actually felt too skinny.

Would you share some details about your diet? I can see from your photos you're in great shape. I'm pushing 40 and the body is not responding like the math says it should.

When you said, "diet (holds on to gains from cycle) to an extent" do you mean you change your diet when you come off-cycle? What does your diet look like on-cycle vs. post cycle?

Again, thank for the comments.

 

[5004paloma]

I would just run the Test along with a good fat burner...

I've read Clen can be very damaging to the heart, dont know for sure..just going on what Ive read on the board..

I've heard conflicting things about Clen. What have you used successfully as a fat burner? Was it on-cycle or off?

Thanks.

 

[5004paloma]

jmo........there are no guarantees you will remain healthy on any cycle......i do however agree you have made a wise decision just running test at 500mg.....that was my first cycle and i made good gains......i would rethink using the aromasin maybe until you needed it......with 500mg you are really only getting about 350mg of actual test......you may not need an anti e......i hope all goes well.....be safe

Did you use anything for anti-E on your first cycle? What did your PCT look like? How long was your cycle?

 

[5004paloma]

those peptides can elevate prolactin and give you gyno.

that would suck on your cycle since you wouldnt understand where it was coming from and would probably up the AI to control it and that would crash your estrogen levels and your gains and joints would go to fucking shit.

One way your complicated cycle could fuck you over.

Never heard of that before. Where did you learn that IGF or MGF can cause elevated prolactin levels? Very interesting. The only significant side-effect of IGF I know of is suppressed GH levels. Thanks for mentioning that, I'll research it.

 

[SOCOM]

I've heard conflicting things about Clen. What have you used successfully as a fat burner? Was it on-cycle or off?

Thanks.

Succesfully...Vasopro. I saw better results off cycle...also gave me an extra boost of energy, which I needed during PCT.

 

[RESTLESS1]

Did you use anything for anti-E on your first cycle? What did your PCT look like? How long was your cycle?

i ran my first cycle back in 88-89......not sure exactly.......it was 500mg of test cyp pinned 2x/week......mon and thurs......back then i ran no anti e......no need for it at that dose.....i believe you run them only as needed......again im talking about me......i believe anti e are highly abused......they are cancer drugs that are very very dangerous.......i never had the need for anti e's until i got up to 1.5 grams of anabolic/week......i used them for less water rention/bloat......i try to control that through diet though mostly.....as for pct......never done it......back when i started using aas i hadnt even heard of pct......you just came off.....in over 20 years of aas use never no pct and no problems......i will say now im on hormone therapy and am always at at least 200mg/week....i know people will disagree with pct and anti e's the way i have done.....do your research and find whats best for you.....dont be quick to do this or do that just b/c of what someone says......its your body and your health.....be safe.......

 

[RESTLESS1]

my cycle was 12 weeks.......

 

[warrenpeace]

It seems those purporting the daily use of an AI on cycle often have a vested interest or agenda for doing so (company rep etc.). I'd say dose it at the lowest amount possible E3D or so and only bump the dosage up if you run into sides. Good post, Restless.

 

[ballennonstop]

It seems those purporting the daily use of an AI on cycle often have a vested interest or agenda for doing so (company rep etc.). I'd say dose it at the lowest amount possible E3D or so and only bump the dosage up if you run into sides. Good post, Restless.

May I ask you what the reason was for you to say that? This board isn't "fixed"-in fact I rarely ever see posts by members with a vested interest trying to lure customers. There's only one guy that comes to mind and he rarely ever posts...

Keep the Anti-E's on hand and if you start to get gyno start administering the lowest effective dose (ie 10mg Tamoxifen eod). That's what I like to do unless I'm cutting-then I like to maintain slightly lower levels of estrogen but high enough to not hurt my HDL, libido, immune system, strength, etc.

 

[SOCOM]

It seems those purporting the daily use of an AI on cycle often have a vested interest or agenda for doing so (company rep etc.). I'd say dose it at the lowest amount possible E3D or so and only bump the dosage up if you run into sides. Good post, Restless.

Paranoia will destroy ya...