DHT conversion/derivate

[Fatty_S]

Can someone rank these AAS in order they give high or low DHT conversion (or = derivate)

Primo
Tren
Test
D-bol
Anavar
Winny
Masteron
Deca

Thnx

 

[Fatty_S]

+ equipoise

 

[Conciliator]

Can someone rank these AAS in order they give high or low DHT conversion (or = derivate)

Primo
Tren
Test
D-bol
Anavar
Winny
Masteron
Deca

Thnx

I was just researching this the other day. Here you go:


High susceptibility to 5-alpha reductase
Testosterone

Extremely low susceptibility to 5-alpha reductase
Dbol
EQ

No susceptibility to 5-alpha reductase
Primo
Tren
Anavar
Winny
Masteron

Susceptible, but actually made weaker by 5-alpha reductase
Deca

 

[Conciliator]

Accordingly, 5AR blockers like finasteride and dutasteride will do essentially nothing to reduce androgenic side effects from any of these steroids except testosterone.

 

[Yohimbe33]

Some of those are already 5 alpha reduced compounds such as winny, masteron and primo and some are not affected by 5 alpha reductase much but possess inherent androgenic qualities such as tren.

Tren is highly androgenic, but this is inherent and it is not affected much by 5 alpha reductase so finasteride/dutasteride will not help with androgen sides.
The same goes for masteron, winny and primo, asthey are already 5 alpha reduced compounds so a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor will be of no help.

Deca undergoes 5 alpha reduction to dihydronandrolene, and this is a mild nadrogen, which is why you need to run test with deca to compensate for this.

Dbol is also androgenic inherently and little is mediated by 5 alpha reductase, so finasteride will also be of little help

I would say ITO androgens the order is
Tren/masteron at the top of the list
winny
dbol/test similar
primo
var
deca

Finasteride and dutasteride will only really work effectively with test as the androgen is from 5 alpha reductase

 

[Fatty_S]

Thnx for the help guys but I actually wanted to know if these AAS were harsh for the prostate. I know DHT derivates don't respond well to Proscar/Finasteride. Actually I am not even thinking of supplementing it during a cycle, even on test.

The question comes because I encounter difficulties @ night having cramps like I have to go to the toilet several times. When I pie sometimes it goes very difficultly or there isn't much coming out, however when I wake up it feels like a real discomfort. During the day I do not have any problems at all.

I am running a cycle of winny 20mg/day and only 400mg of primo/week. So low dose but both DHT derivates. Goal is to stay pretty lean during the cycle. Any alternatives staying jacked but without having the bloat?

 

[Jarconis]

chemically, if you look at their formulas, dbol is just a methylated version of eq, its crazy how methylation acts as an "x" factor for some of these compounds changing their effect and potency.

 

[Fatty_S]

Could tren do the trick? As far as I know it is not a dht derivate nor does it convert to DHT. Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Conciliator]

and some are not affected by 5 alpha reductase much but possess inherent androgenic qualities such as tren.

You say tren is not affected "much" by 5AR, but research like this suggests that it's not affected by it at all.

Tren is highly androgenic, but this is inherent...

Dbol is also androgenic inherently...

All steroids are inherantly androgenic, which is why they're called anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS). Those that you are calling highly androgenic are also highly anabolic. It's not that they're relatively more androgenic than anabolic, it's just that they're strong steroids all around. They have anabolic and androgenic affinities that are pretty balanced, if you will. The unbalanced exceptions are testosterone and nandrolone.

I would say ITO androgens the order is
Tren/masteron at the top of the list
winny
dbol/test similar
primo
var
deca

On a mg for mg basis, tren is highly androgenic (and anabolic). I'd put it at the top too. But what is masteron doing up there? On a mg for mg basis, RBA assays show that EQ and even deca have more androgenic activity.

Finasteride and dutasteride will only really work effectively with test as the androgen is from 5 alpha reductase

I think you mean that finasteride and dutasteride will only really work with test because its 5-alpha-reduced metabolite (DHT) is a much stronger androgen. Both test and DHT are androgens.

 

[Conciliator]

Thnx for the help guys but I actually wanted to know if these AAS were harsh for the prostate. I know DHT derivates don't respond well to Proscar/Finasteride. Actually I am not even thinking of supplementing it during a cycle, even on test.

The question comes because I encounter difficulties @ night having cramps like I have to go to the toilet several times. When I pie sometimes it goes very difficultly or there isn't much coming out, however when I wake up it feels like a real discomfort. During the day I do not have any problems at all.

I am running a cycle of winny 20mg/day and only 400mg of primo/week. So low dose but both DHT derivates. Goal is to stay pretty lean during the cycle. Any alternatives staying jacked but without having the bloat?

Are you taking testosterone as part of your cycle? If so, you should be taking finasteride. You should also be taking finasteride between cycles.

Winny isn't a bad choice, with a very favorable anabolic:androgenic ratio. However, primo is actually pretty androgenic relative to being anabolic. You'd be better off substituting the primo for deca and not using finasteride.

 

[Conciliator]

chemically, if you look at their formulas, dbol is just a methylated version of eq, its crazy how methylation acts as an "x" factor for some of these compounds changing their effect and potency.

Although the potencies on a mg for mg basis are different, dbol and eq have essentially the same anabolic to androgenic ratio according to in vivo RBA assays.

 

[Conciliator]

Could tren do the trick? As far as I know it is not a dht derivate nor does it convert to DHT. Correct me if I'm wrong

It doesn't matter if something is a DHT derivative or it converts to a 5-AR metabolite. What matters is the anabolic to androgenic ratio. For a given anabolic effect, what you want is a low androgenic effect. For example, nandrolone undergoes 5-alpha reduction, but that actually improves the anabolic:androgenic ratio. Also, winny is a DHT derivative, but it's still highly anabolic. It doesn't appear to be susceptible to 3-alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase which deactivates steroids like DHT or proviron in muscle tissue.

Personally, I think tren would be fine to take as long as you keep your dose very low. For a given anabolic effect, it does not have a disproportionately high androgenic effect. If nandrolone is not available, you could consider using tren at one fifth the dose you'd use nandrolone at.

In the end, don't expect your BPH to get any better while on cycle. At best, you'll probably just be slowing the progression of the problem, not reversing it. You may need to reduce your doses or go off cycle completely for a long time if the problem requires it. Also, if you need immediate relief, you should consider getting a prescription for an alpha-1 adrenergic receptor antagonist. They relax smooth muscle within the prostate and bladder, which in turn increases urinary flow and relieves symptoms of urinary frequency. Flomax is more specific to the prostate and tends to have fewer side effects than Hytrin or Cardura.

 

[Fatty_S]

It doesn't matter if something is a DHT derivative or it converts to a 5-AR metabolite. What matters is the anabolic to androgenic ratio. For a given anabolic effect, what you want is a low androgenic effect. For example, nandrolone undergoes 5-alpha reduction, but that actually improves the anabolic:androgenic ratio. Also, winny is a DHT derivative, but it's still highly anabolic. It doesn't appear to be susceptible to 3-alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase which deactivates steroids like DHT or proviron in muscle tissue.

Personally, I think tren would be fine to take as long as you keep your dose very low. For a given anabolic effect, it does not have a disproportionately high androgenic effect. If nandrolone is not available, you could consider using tren at one fifth the dose you'd use nandrolone at.

In the end, don't expect your BPH to get any better while on cycle. At best, you'll probably just be slowing the progression of the problem, not reversing it. You may need to reduce your doses or go off cycle completely for a long time if the problem requires it. Also, if you need immediate relief, you should consider getting a prescription for an alpha-1 adrenergic receptor antagonist. They relax smooth muscle within the prostate and bladder, which in turn increases urinary flow and relieves symptoms of urinary frequency. Flomax is more specific to the prostate and tends to have fewer side effects than Hytrin or Cardura.

Thnx that's some good info. I had a look via Google but in my country Belgium this product does not exist.

 

[Yohimbe33]

You say tren is not affected "much" by 5AR, but research like this suggests that it's not affected by it at all.

All steroids are inherantly androgenic, which is why they're called anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS). Those that you are calling highly androgenic are also highly anabolic. It's not that they're relatively more androgenic than anabolic, it's just that they're strong steroids all around. They have anabolic and androgenic affinities that are pretty balanced, if you will. The unbalanced exceptions are testosterone and nandrolone.

By inherently androgenic I mean androgenic without conversion by 5 alpha reductase. The bulk of potency of the androgenicity of testosterone comes from the conversion to dht by 5 alpha reductase. Tren is highly androgenic but has virtually no propensity for 5 alpha reductase, so the androgenic quality is inherent in the drug without it being converted

On a mg for mg basis, tren is highly androgenic (and anabolic). I'd put it at the top too. But what is masteron doing up there? On a mg for mg basis, RBA assays show that EQ and even deca have more androgenic activity.
I think you mean that finasteride and dutasteride will only really work with test because its 5-alpha-reduced metabolite (DHT) is a much stronger androgen. Both test and DHT are androgens.

Masteron is pure dht. Finasteride and dutasteride won't work with masteron because its already 5 alpha reduced, but as far as its androgenicity, anyone thats used it will testify masteron and proviron are potent androgens. Its not very anabolic but hair shedding, excessive erections and acne are common place with masteron.
From personal experience I've used EQ, deca and NPP and masteron and the dht from masteron isn't even comparable to EQ or NPP. FRom the first week I started shedding hair, and was horny constantly to the point it became a problem.
Deca on the other hand converts by 5 alpha reducatse to dihydronandrolene, and this is such a weak androgen you have to run test with it otherwise you'll suffer erectile dysfunction if run by itself, because it will shut down your natural test production, and consequently dht production from the 5 aplha conversion, but replaces it with a much weaker 5 alpha reduced androgen DHN