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Diet not working, troubleshoot.. long

montyburns

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Help.
6'3, 270. Finally fully recovered from an injury (torn muscle in lower back) which really halted my training. In that time I trained like an brittle old man. And ended up gaining lots of fat, while my weight stayed the same, now at 18-20% depending on calipers/tester...talk about worst-case scenario. Amazingly, I actually gained strength, go figure.

ANYWAY.....For two weeks now, I've been trying to cut up. Eating well below maintainance calories, about 2600kcal per day; 400g protein from whey/casein and beef/chicken/tuna; 100gfat from flax oil, fish oil, beef and canola mayo for the tuna, and approx 30g carbs from hidden sources and fiber. I'm using low-dose T3 to keep metabolism from shutting down due to the low cals and ECY/YNC. This seems to be working, body temp is elevated even upon waking up. Not on gear, but have tren winny test durabolin standing by should I start losing too much muscle.
So far I haven't lost shit, I weigh 268/269.. at this weight I sweat out 2-3lbs in the shower and my turds are probably two pounds each.
So either
A. I'm losing bodyfat and gaining muscle at the same time... which quite frankly, seems possible, I feel bigger and stronger. I've always been a little lax on nutrition, so 400g protein is a lot more than I've been ingesting for the past 2-3 months, perhaps this is a factor.
or B. My theory is that some of the protein is converting to glucose and sabotaging any attempts at low-carb dieting; even so, I'm well below maintainance calories so I should still theoretically lose weight in some form or another.

This diet protocol has worked very well for me in the past, getting me to 260 with much much lower BF, and I've always lost a good 4-5 pounds of water in the first week.
Any ideas? Thanks for getting this far.
 

vitor

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Hmm

CARDIO ???????
 

homonunculus

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Other conjectures...

Cals and macronutrients sound good. At your BW, that is ~10 kcal / lb / day. Should be right on.

The scale might have been wrong at the first (or latest) weigh-in. Is it your scale?... Scales are also not a great way to guage things. You might want to get some cheap calipers and just follow skinfold thickness (forget the % BF calculations) after you get good (reliable) at a few sites.

Theory A sounds more plausible. How many g of Protein were you eating before the diet?...

When was your last cycle, i.e. could your test be rebounding, giving you a better shot at gaining muscle, even though you're dieting?...

Most important: what does the mirror say?...

-Randy
 

doug1

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montyburns said:
Help.
. Amazingly, I actually gained strength, go figure.


So either
A. I'm losing bodyfat and gaining muscle at the same time... which quite frankly, seems possible, I feel bigger and stronger. or B. My theory is that some of the protein is converting to glucose and sabotaging any attempts at low-carb dieting; even so, I'm well below maintainance calories so I should still theoretically lose weight in some form or another.
without sounding like a butthead, i think after being laid up for so long and that now that weight training has begun again, that the scale is the same for the obvious reason that you mentioned. you've lost fat and gained muscle. i would bet my left nut on that. even if you weren't doing cardio, at that bf % combined with the weight training that you will without a doubt lose fat, as i am certain you have. so what's the moral of the story, try to stay off the scale, it might make you do something stupid like get crazy low on cals and set off a host of other problems that you are well aware of. i personally am a big fan of measuring my gut in the largest part with a tape measure in the morning after i wake up. this is a good indicator since i don't train my abs i know that an increase or decrease in the measurement is based strictly on my caloric intake.
 

xcelbeyond

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Sounds like gaining muscle and losing fat = no change on scale. This can really play with your head. But, if you're "looking better," what better gauge is there?? Personally, I had a bad experience with t-3 and would can it. I'd be afraid of losing muscle on a calorie deficient diet - just my opinion.

As dog1 said, measure your stomach - right across the belly button. This tends to be the largest section and you can "hit it" (measure same spot) every time :) . This will give you a good indicator for fat loss.

xcel
 

montyburns

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To XCEL: It certainly can and does play with your head as it is said by many to be 'impossible.' As for T3, I'm only using 12.5mcg/day. The efficacy of this is controversial, but I've foudn in the past that it doesn't accelerate fat loss so much as it prevents it from slowing down or plateauing - it does this very well. And this dose certainly shouldn't accelerate muscle loss, at least not for me.

VITOR: What's that stuff? I do two sessions per week, 40min or so, devoted to building endurance, like sprints with a big rock, timed sandbag work for reps and other weird but exhausting shit. I guess I'll jump on the treadmill for a bit each morning see what happens.

HOMONUNCULUS: (I originally abreviated your name, then thought better of it) I do have a cheap set of calipers I got free with some protein or some shit.. I'll dig em up. Before, I was taking in 1gm/pound of BW, tops. Last cycle..so long I can't remember... close to a year.

DOUG: I wouldnt have considered you a butthead, until you put the idea in my head..(joking.) Anyway, I wasn't really laid up, I just couldn't squats, deads or variations thereof; unfortunately, those are the most metabolically demanding movements.

Thanks to all. I'll have the lady snap some pics tomorrow, then some more after a month or so. I'll stay off the scale till then.
 
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Crowler

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First of all why change what you are doing if you do not know if it is working.

It might be working very well. You should have started with an accurate base bench mark of some sort so you would know if you are going in the right direction. So you need to set a starting point for yourself now.

Quick and dirty method: Measure your waist at the largest point. If in 2 weeks it is down and your weight is the same then yes you are losing fat and gaining muscle.

More accurate method: Underwater Body fat analysis.
 

homonunculus

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LOL, Thanks, man.

montyburns said:
HOMONUNCULUS: (I originally abreviated your name, then thought better of it) I do have a cheap set of calipers I got free with some protein or some shit.. I'll dig em up. Before, I was taking in 1gm/pound of BW, tops. Last cycle..so long I can't remember... close to a year.
[/B]
Thanks for not abbreviating. (I prefer Randy to Homo. LOL). (Homonunculus is actually an abberation of a medical term - homunculus. I was diggin' for a unique handle years ago and found it.)

Sounds like the Pro might be a good thing. Imagine if you ate that much while on gear!

I'd try the abdom. measure and/or the skinfold. Waist circumference can vary w/ GI contents and even posture. Skinfolds don't vary much, even with significant changes in hydration.

Good Luck, Bro. Post some pics if you get a chance!!! You're gonna look great if you make it to single digit BF%.

-Randy
 

JDog

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First, give it more time. It has after all been a mere 2 weeks. Second, why initiate your diet with T3? I prefer to wait until the later stages of diet when metabolism begins to slow to compensate weight loss.
 

Crowler

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homonunculus,

Good points about the change in abdomen measurement according to GI and posture.

Thanks for the info.
 

xcelbeyond

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Crowler said:
homonunculus,

Good points about the change in abdomen measurement according to GI and posture.

Thanks for the info.
Ab measurement doesn't vary too much if you check it first thing in the morning. There aren't very many people that can check skinfold in the exact same spot and pinching the same amount either. In other words, nothing's foolproof - the idea is to measure progress.

xcel
 

BIGKIWI

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Hi Monty, would say up your cardio 3-4 times week in morn, why aren't you taking gear ? may missed that but I feel the time you grow the most is when getting lean start the tren , winny durabolin and put on the extra muscle this is gonna help burn more fat to. Don't worry abou the scales to much as others said to early and when your on gear as well will deffinately be muscle putting on. Keep up the T3 if it has worked for you then maybe do ECA, clen stack. Best luck

kiwi
 

homonunculus

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Another good point

xcelbeyond said:

Ab measurement doesn't vary too much if you check it first thing in the morning. There aren't very many people that can check skinfold in the exact same spot and pinching the same amount either. In other words, nothing's foolproof - the idea is to measure progress.

xcel
xcel,

Agreed. R.e. abd measurements, I was thinking of comparing off-season with in-season values. I've had to battle being bloated and even having some low-back problems when bulking. (Under control in the past few years.) I definitely feel like my colon is constantly full when bulking up. (Have even thought about a colonic, to be honest.) I'll do the measurements on myself just to see (I've got a show next weekend), but would guess that my abd measurements are probably increased by a couple inches just from the lower GI fullness and the effect on my lumbar curvature.

Of course, abd measurements are nice in that they, albeit indirectly, indicate the levels of visceral (intra-abdominal) fat, which will be lost at a greater relative rate when dieting than sub-q fat (see Ross et al., late 90's - studies with MRI's).

Frankly, I think you can get pretty consistent even when doing your own skinfold measurements. Using an individual landmark like a freckle, scar or birthmark can even be better than traditional anatomical landmarks as far as reliability. If you're not worried about applying a regression equation to estimate %BF, then it doesn't really matter where you measure, as long as its a site of fat accumulation.

-Randy
 

montyburns

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JDog said:
First, give it more time. It has after all been a mere 2 weeks. Second, why initiate your diet with T3? I prefer to wait until the later stages of diet when metabolism begins to slow to compensate weight loss.
To JDog: According to these T3 levels drop pretty quickly, others I've seen but -conveniently- can't find were more convincing too. "The plasma insulin and T3 levels also fell substantially in the first week and continued to decrease during the entire course." --http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12080397&dopt=Abstract

and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7191804&dopt=Abstract
 

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