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DIM as an AI anyone?

wordomr

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My trt doc recommended DIM with my trt protocol as a substitute for Anastrozole, and I had noticeable side effects from anastrozole (increased bp, and nose bleeds).
 

Bio-hazard

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Should the dose be split up or all at once? Im taking 300mg daily so I'm doing 100mg morning, noon and night. Or would it be best all at once? Or does it not even matter?
 

OutToLunch

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Should the dose be split up or all at once? Im taking 300mg daily so I'm doing 100mg morning, noon and night. Or would it be best all at once? Or does it not even matter?

Homon did a write up on dim including dosage. Should be split up if I recall. Try searching it.
 

BBB

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You might want to read what Dr. Dinoiii has to say about DIM. I3C is much better.

Pilot study: effect of 3,3'-diindolylmethane supplements on urinary hormone metabolites in postmenopausal women with a history of early-stage breast cancer.

Dalessandri KM, Firestone GL, Fitch MD, Bradlow HL, Bjeldanes LF.

Department of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of California, Berkeley, 94720-3200, USA.

Abstract
Dietary indoles, present in Brassica plants such as cabbage, broccoli, and Brussels sprouts, have been shown to provide potential protection against hormone-dependent cancers. 3,3'-Diindolylmethane (DIM) is under study as one of the main protective indole metabolites. Postmenopausal women aged 50-70 yr from Marin County, California, with a history of early-stage breast cancer, were screened for interest and eligibility in this pilot study on the effect of absorbable DIM (BioResponse-DIM) supplements on urinary hormone metabolites. The treatment group received daily DIM (108 mg DIM/day) supplements for 30 days, and the control group received a placebo capsule daily for 30 days. Urinary metabolite analysis included 2-hydroxyestrone (2-OHE1), 16-alpha hydroxyestrone (16alpha-OHE1), DIM, estrone (El), estradiol(E2), estriol (E3), 6beta-hydroxycortisol (6beta-OHC), and cortisol in the first morning urine sample before intervention and 31 days after intervention. Nineteen women completed the study,for a total of 10 in the treatment group and 9 in the placebo group. DIM-treated subjects, relative to placebo, showed a significant increase in levels of2-OHE1 (P=0. 020), DIM (P =0. 045), and cortisol (P = 0.039), and a nonsignificant increase of 47% in the 2-OHE1/16alpha-OHE1 ratio from 1.46 to 2.14 (P=0.059). In this pilot study, DIM increased the 2-hydroxylation of estrogen urinary metabolites.

PMID: 15623462 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 

Frito

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Here is a little piece written by Scott Stevenson:

3,3’-Diindolylmethane (DIM)

DIM is the primary metabolite of Indole 3 Carbinol(I3C), a compound found in cruciferous vegetables (like broccoli, cauliflower, radishes and turnips)(1). It has been widely studied for its anticancer effects(2), in particular in protecting against or halting the progression of estrogen and androgen-sensitive cancers like breast and prostate cancer. DIM is also used to treat respiratory papillomas(3) and has an anti-proliferative effect on thyroid goiter cells, contrary to the belief that DIM is goitrogenic(4).

DIM demonstrates an anti-androgenic effect in prostate cancer by inhibiting effects of dihydrotestosterone (DHT)(5), likely by directly competing for DHT at the androgen receptor(5, 6). Like its parent compound I3C, DIM has diverse effects on estrogen metabolism, favoring the formation of anti-estrogenic metabolites at the expense of estrogenic ones(7, 8). Interestingly, DIM in and of itself is actually an agonist (activator) of the human estrogen receptor (6), which may explain the notion that DIM “balances” estrogen’s effects. DIM may be superior as a supplement to I3C for those minimizing estrogenic effects, because, unlike I3C, DIM does not affect metabolism of the anti-breast cancer drug (estrogen receptor antagonist) tamoxifen or increase its toxic metabolites(8). Additionally, at least in rats, DIM does not disrupt the hypothalamic pituitary ovarian axis (involved in estrogen synthesis) in the manner that I3C does(9).

The effects of DIM are largely attributed to its diverse effects on the cytochromes p450 (CYP)(10-12), a large hepatic enzyme group involved in metabolism of a great many drugs and toxins by the liver(13). Because of this, please consult your healthcare professional about possible interactions DIM may have with any medications you are taking.

Benefits and Risks
DIM may be helpful in minimizing possible cancer risks of hormone replacement (both estrogen and testosterone based) by affecting the actions of these hormones on the breast and prostate, as well as confer anti-tumor effects on the thyroid, lung and colon(14). On the other hand, it should be noted that excessively high doses seem to be associated with toxicity and pro-tumor effects in animal research(15). However, when the equivalent of a human dose of ~600mg / day (for a 220lb bodybuilder; 2-3 times the typically suggested dose), was given to rats for 32 days, neither body weight, blood chemistry nor histology of liver, kidney or bone(16) were affected, suggesting minimal adverse consequences, at least for rodents, at this dose.
In one study of healthy adults(15), increasing the dose of DIM from 200mg to 300mg did not further elevate DIM blood levels. Additionally, side effects below 300mg/day were not found to be dose-dependent. As reviewed by Reed et al.(15), compared to an equivalent dose of I3C, oral supplementation with DIM produces 2-3 times higher DIM, and is well tolerated in the 200-400mg / day range, when split over two doses.

Supplement Use
The above suggests that a daily dose of 100-200mg, spread over two doses, DIM could be used to protect against potential adverse effects of supplements that may elevate blood hormone levels, such as D-Aspartic Acid , Tribulus Terrestris or MG’s Super Test Booster. Patients concerned with possible elevation of cancer risk associated with hormone replacement therapy (estrogen(17) or testosterone (18)should check with their respective physicians to see if DIM may be a useful adjunctive prophlactic against tumorigenesis. Naturally, the anti-cancer benefits of DIM make it an attractive addition to a supplement regime geared toward health and longevity, especially in the face of familial history of cancer. PLEASE CONSULT YOUR HEALTHCARE PROVIDER before taking DIM if you are current taking any prescribed or over-the-counter medications, as DIM may affect drug metabolism and necessitate dosage adjustment.

DISCLAIMER: The above description is provided for information only and does not constitute medical advice. Please consult your physician or the appropriately licensed professional before engaging in a program of exercise of nutritional supplementation.

References


True Protein. All Rights Reserved.

1. Higdon, J.V., et al., Cruciferous vegetables and human cancer risk: epidemiologic evidence and mechanistic basis. Pharmacological research : the official journal of the Italian Pharmacological Society, 2007. 55(3): p. 224-36. Cruciferous vegetables and human cancer risk: epidemiologic evidenc... - PubMed - NCBI
2. Weng, J.R., et al., Indole-3-carbinol as a chemopreventive and anti-cancer agent. Cancer letters, 2008. 262(2): p. 153-63. Indole-3-carbinol as a chemopreventive and anti-cancer agent. - PubMed - NCBI
3. Wiatrak, B.J., Overview of recurrent respiratory papillomatosis. Current opinion in otolaryngology & head and neck surgery, 2003. 11(6): p. 433-41. Overview of recurrent respiratory papillomatosis. - PubMed - NCBI
4. Tadi, K., et al., 3,3'-Diindolylmethane, a cruciferous vegetable derived synthetic anti-proliferative compound in thyroid disease. Biochemical and biophysical research communications, 2005. 337(3): p. 1019-25. 3,3'-Diindolylmethane, a cruciferous vegetable derived synthetic an... - PubMed - NCBI
5. Le, H.T., et al., Plant-derived 3,3'-Diindolylmethane is a strong androgen antagonist in human prostate cancer cells. The Journal of biological chemistry, 2003. 278(23): p. 21136-45. Plant-derived 3,3'-Diindolylmethane is a strong androgen antagonist... - PubMed - NCBI
6. Bovee, T.F., et al., Screening of synthetic and plant-derived compounds for (anti)estrogenic and (anti)androgenic activities. Analytical and bioanalytical chemistry, 2008. 390(4): p. 1111-9. Screening of synthetic and plant-derived compounds for (anti)estrog... - PubMed - NCBI
7. Horn, T.L., et al., Modulations of P450 mRNA in liver and mammary gland and P450 activities and metabolism of estrogen in liver by treatment of rats with indole-3-carbinol. Biochemical pharmacology, 2002. 64(3): p. 393-404. Modulations of P450 mRNA in liver and mammary gland and P450 activi... - PubMed - NCBI
8. Parkin, D.R. and D. Malejka-Giganti, Differences in the hepatic P450-dependent metabolism of estrogen and tamoxifen in response to treatment of rats with 3,3'-diindolylmethane and its parent compound indole-3-carbinol. Cancer detection and prevention, 2004. 28(1): p. 72-9. Differences in the hepatic P450-dependent metabolism of estrogen an... - PubMed - NCBI
9. Gao, X., et al., Endocrine disruption by indole-3-carbinol and tamoxifen: blockage of ovulation. Toxicology and applied pharmacology, 2002. 183(3): p. 179-88. Endocrine disruption by indole-3-carbinol and tamoxifen: blockage o... - PubMed - NCBI
10. Stresser, D.M., et al., The anticarcinogen 3,3'-diindolylmethane is an inhibitor of cytochrome P-450. Journal of biochemical toxicology, 1995. 10(4): p. 191-201. The anticarcinogen 3,3'-diindolylmethane is an inhibitor of cytochr... - PubMed - NCBI
11. Parkin, D.R., et al., Inhibitory effects of a dietary phytochemical 3,3'-diindolylmethane on the phenobarbital-induced hepatic CYP mRNA expression and CYP-catalyzed reactions in female rats. Food and chemical toxicology : an international journal published for the British Industrial Biological Research Association, 2008. 46(7): p. 2451-8. Inhibitory effects of a dietary phytochemical 3,3'-diindolylmethane on the phenobarbital-induced hepatic CYP mRNA expression and CYP-catalyzed reac... - PubMed - NCBI
12. Lake, B.G., et al., 3,3'-Diindolylmethane induces CYP1A2 in cultured precision-cut human liver slices. Xenobiotica; the fate of foreign compounds in biological systems, 1998. 28(8): p. 803-11. 3,3'-Diindolylmethane induces CYP1A2 in cultured precision-cut human liver slices. - PubMed - NCBI
13. Rendic, S., Summary of information on human CYP enzymes: human P450 metabolism data. Drug metabolism reviews, 2002. 34(1-2): p. 83-448. Summary of information on human CYP enzymes: human P450 metabolism data. - PubMed - NCBI
14. Bonnesen, C., et al., Dietary indoles and isothiocyanates that are generated from cruciferous vegetables can both stimulate apoptosis and confer protection against DNA damage in human colon cell lines. Cancer research, 2001. 61(16): p. 6120-30. Dietary indoles and isothiocyanates that are generated from cruciferous vegetables can both stimulate apoptosis and confer protection against DNA d... - PubMed - NCBI
15. Reed, G.A., et al., Single-dose pharmacokinetics and tolerability of absorption-enhanced 3,3'-diindolylmethane in healthy subjects. Cancer epidemiology, biomarkers & prevention : a publication of the American Association for Cancer Research, cosponsored by the American Society of Preventive Oncology, 2008. 17(10): p. 2619-24. Single-dose pharmacokinetics and tolerability of absorption-enhanced 3,3'-diindolylmethane in healthy subjects. - PubMed - NCBI
16. Elackattu, A.P., et al., A controlled safety study of diindolylmethane in the immature rat model. The Laryngoscope, 2009. 119(9): p. 1803-8. A controlled safety study of diindolylmethane in the immature rat model. - PubMed - NCBI
17. Taylor, H.S. and J.E. Manson, Update in hormone therapy use in menopause. The Journal of clinical endocrinology and metabolism, 2011. 96(2): p. 255-64. Update in hormone therapy use in menopause. - PubMed - NCBI
18. Bassil, N. and J.E. Morley, Late-life onset hypogonadism: a review. Clinics in geriatric medicine, 2010. 26(2): p. 197-222. Late-life onset hypogonadism: a review. - PubMed - NCBI
 

flubber

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Nov 2, 2014
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I would also like to know more about dim. My doc at Florida rejuvenation charged me over two grand for a few months worth of products and never delivered half of them including the DIM. I was looking forward to try it. I will stick to ugls from now on. I could have been set for the year at those prices.
 
Last edited:

kscowboy

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I take it mostly for its prostrate benefits and to help ward off prostrate cancer. But for a long time my estrogen was perfect. Just recently it started creeping up a bit and we did incorporate some adex to help that but my endo was surprised that my estrogen was so good even when on trt. I also notice that my blood work shows that when I'm on DIM, my prostrate numbers are awesome and when i run out of DIM that they are slightly elevated.

100 mg am and 100mg PM of Truenutrition DIM.
 

OutToLunch

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I take it mostly for its prostrate benefits and to help ward off prostrate cancer. But for a long time my estrogen was perfect. Just recently it started creeping up a bit and we did incorporate some adex to help that but my endo was surprised that my estrogen was so good even when on trt. I also notice that my blood work shows that when I'm on DIM, my prostrate numbers are awesome and when i run out of DIM that they are slightly elevated.



100 mg am and 100mg PM of Truenutrition DIM.

Thx
 

Dezzy

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I might check this stuff out
 

j2048b

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Any updates from anyone still using DIM?
kierk over on peak test hrt forum, is using it and loves it!1 im now debating on using it, amazon and true both have great products...and at the price? why not give it a try?

im concerned with interaction between meds such as wellbutrin, and a few others...
 

chemjr

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I have been using them for the past 7 years while on HRT and I love it. Piping rock offers a very decent product for the money and you can run 3 caps a day for 10 bucks a month. It also has a 75mg cruciferous vegetable blend in there as well on top of the hundred milligrams of DIM.
 

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chemjr

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It frikin works. Have bloods to prove it. E2 went down significantly After starting trt. So doc said "man, usually it goes up, u must be superman or something". Told him I use DIM 3x a day and he wanted to know what it was so he could tell other patients, lol.
Ps- was using a different brand that I'll be buying again. It's very pure, and has bioperine and apigenin to help w absorbtion. PM me for info.
 
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Thebigone

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Old thread but wondering if anyone was able to use DIM instead of an anti-E for PCT.
 

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