Duchaine's Theory of post mediated growth

Big Bapper · Apr 20, 2006

LOL

LOL........The two people in question were extreme in there chosen field and maybe pushed it a bit too far at times. But in the Paul Borresen case it was a overdose of the painkiller morphine that killed him and not AS. I think what he was trying to do from reading his books was to try to give us a taste of what the top guys in the sport were doing and what separted national champs from the top guys.

Shooter · Apr 20, 2006

Borresen had lots of other issues, Duchaine I am not sure. These guys are far from the only ones pushing the 4g thing.

Macdaddy · Apr 22, 2006

Exactly!! Although most will never admit it, there is a large % of pros that push the 4g envelope. Some much more. Now they don't do that all year long, but they do a few cycles at that level (or ramp up to that from their current level depending on if they ever "ACTUALLY" come off during the year) Thats why you see guys like Cutler, Levrone, Priest, looking flat and smoothed over in the offseason. They are on a down period to recover. Then when its time to prepare for a competition, they ramp up.

big_byrd52 · May 22, 2006

Really? you dont think its because they actually EAT a little bit more in the off season?!

2Sick · Sep 20, 2006

Bump this for AP....I would like to hear what he has to say since he knew Dan D. personaly for years.

Ashop · Sep 21, 2006

Good read,,I've tried high dose blast before and still prefer a moderate dose, longer range cycle. Wasnt what Ducahaine died of a degenerative kidney disease born with at birth?

gymfreak81 · Nov 16, 2006

damn

ive been around 2400gs for about 8wks that was the highest for me... i cant imagine shooting 4gs of gear.. youd run out of spots to inject. Sounds interesting though.

TooPowerful4u · Nov 20, 2006

would LOVE to see what AP has to say on the subject?

Gavin Kane · Nov 20, 2006

Dan died of a congenital birth defect, had nothing to do with anything he ever took. While he was quite the renegade, he was far more safe than most of you are in taking products. I knew Dan well in the 90's and we spent a lot of time together talking about everything from recombent bikes, to model airplanes, to steroids. He was actually a very well rounded individual and may my friend rest in peace, God bless him.

Now on to your topic of discussion, at one point under the guidance of Dan, I did a 4 week cycle of test at 10g per week, yes that is right. The gains were astronomical, the body fat loss was better than any cutting cycle I have ever done, etc. Now for the bad part, I had heart palpitations, I couldn't breathe, I couldn't sleep, I wore 4-5 shirts a day from sweating, and more.

Yes, there is another pathway that opens at 4g plus, but there is still no proof, only anectodal evidence from all those who have done it. I can't find any scientific reason why, I just know it does. Everything I could tell you is mere speculation.

So do any of you need to do this? Hell no, and you would be fools to try. Why? What are your goals? If you dont' make a living doing this, why do that to your body? It is reckless and stupid at best.

While I am reckless and stupid at best, you guys can live your fantasies through me, I would never recommend you do what I do, I am a scientist and sometimes a foolish one at that. When I do finally make recommendations to you guys, it is for safe and sane gains, not the stupid stuff I do or have done. Do as I say, not as I do.

Qwert · Nov 21, 2006

Although I wouldn't go anywhere near those dosages, it sure is fun reading about it. Thanks AP!!!

Kahn · Nov 22, 2006

AP - Thanks for coming in. What kind of weight and strength did you gain. What did you and Dan do for diet? What kind of things did you two come up with from your experience at 10g/wk? Did you do any more high levels? Were his speakers worth a shit?

Oh yeah, what did he think of Bill Philips?

Gavin Kane · Nov 22, 2006

Kahn said:
AP - Thanks for coming in. What kind of weight and strength did you gain. What did you and Dan do for diet? What kind of things did you two come up with from your experience at 10g/wk? Did you do any more high levels? Were his speakers worth a shit?

Oh yeah, what did he think of Bill Philips?

First thing, Bill was a tool back in the day....well still is but he is a rich tool so I can't slam him there. He did quite well with his steroid sales money. Made quite and empire.

Anyway, for diet...as much red meat as I could eat a day with rice, pasta and a gallon of milk. Usually 4 or more lbs lean ground beef, steaks, etc. I was eating over 10k cals per day. I can't recall exact strength gains but they were phenomenal, but then again, Dan wasn't into strength training. As for weight, again I can't recall exact numbers but bodyfat loss was around 3-4% and mass gains over 20lbs.

Remember I was a human furnace, my waking body temp was over 99 degrees. I would have to sleep on a stack of towels and as they got soaked during the night, I would remove one, then sleep on the next and so on. I wore 5 or more t-shirts per day. I couldn't breathe or walk anywhere, it was beyond unhealthy. My blood pressure was through the roof.

As for his speakers, Dan and I are serious audiophiles and could spend days talking on end about speakers, turntables, tube amps and other high end gear.

edge250 · Nov 22, 2006

dude we should seriously have a storytime with almostpro section, between you and lats that would be a great read only section.

LATS & ALMOSTPRO STORYTIME SECTION (READ ONLY)

mods hook this up.

Matte220 · Nov 23, 2006

Qwert said:
Although I wouldn't go anywhere near those dosages, it sure is fun reading about it. Thanks AP!!!

+1 bro~I really appreciate AP's insight and knowledge as well.

Kahn · Nov 23, 2006

Thanks, AP. Dan was the kind of thinker you could spend a year talking to. I've always been fascinated by his stuff. From his odd ass friends(Buttsie) to the sex talk and the free thinking on bodybuilding. I bet you could write a book of your experiences with Dan. I'd buy it, thats for sure. It wouldn't need to be a story per se, just a wad of stories.

Gavin Kane · Nov 23, 2006

Since I am married and not gay, I can say this in a totally non gay way....Dan was the most beautiful man I ever had the pleasure of meeting, spending time with, and learning from. He was so well rounded, he really hated the "steroid guru" moniker. He was so much more, he was a great, great man and I miss him dearly.

K1 · Nov 23, 2006

Almost Pro said:
Dan died of a congenital birth defect, had nothing to do with anything he ever took. While he was quite the renegade, he was far more safe than most of you are in taking products. I knew Dan well in the 90's and we spent a lot of time together talking about everything from recombent bikes, to model airplanes, to steroids. He was actually a very well rounded individual and may my friend rest in peace, God bless him.

Now on to your topic of discussion, at one point under the guidance of Dan, I did a 4 week cycle of test at 10g per week, yes that is right. The gains were astronomical, the body fat loss was better than any cutting cycle I have ever done, etc. Now for the bad part, I had heart palpitations, I couldn't breathe, I couldn't sleep, I wore 4-5 shirts a day from sweating, and more.

Yes, there is another pathway that opens at 4g plus, but there is still no proof, only anectodal evidence from all those who have done it. I can't find any scientific reason why, I just know it does. Everything I could tell you is mere speculation.

So do any of you need to do this? Hell no, and you would be fools to try. Why? What are your goals? If you dont' make a living doing this, why do that to your body? It is reckless and stupid at best.

While I am reckless and stupid at best, you guys can live your fantasies through me, I would never recommend you do what I do, I am a scientist and sometimes a foolish one at that. When I do finally make recommendations to you guys, it is for safe and sane gains, not the stupid stuff I do or have done. Do as I say, not as I do.

Good insight, thanks for posting bro...........

Wallace · Nov 23, 2006

Almost Pro said:
Dan died of a congenital birth defect, had nothing to do with anything he ever took.
...
I did a 4 week cycle of test at 10g per week, yes that is right ... I had heart palpitations, I couldn't breathe, I couldn't sleep, I wore 4-5 shirts a day from sweating, and more.

That's sounds very logical and encouraging ...

Wallace

Dad · Nov 25, 2006

I'm not familiar with Dan's theories on extra pathway, but am very familiar with a least one of his other projects.

When I did my first BB competition, some people I knew who were competing gave me a copy of Dan's Ultimate Diet book. They didn't have the guts to try it, and instead rode the bike 2+ hours daily on 600 calories.

I read the Ultimate Diet, and thought it made sense, so followed it to the letter. This diet has a powerlifting phase so, much to everyone's disbelief, I was doing heavy triples in the squat, dead, and bench three weeks out from my show.

I will say that NOTHING has ever even come close to that diet for getting the fat off, and actually getting stronger as the contest got closer! Dan's diet is the ONLY instance I've ever seen of losing fat and actually gaining muscle at the same time!

I've used this many times over the last 20 years, and have tried other things as well (Zone diet, etc), and will again say that this is the finest creation I've ever seen!

DIEZEL666 · Nov 25, 2006

AP, when you were using 10g a week, did you come off cold or taper? What other supps were you taking to maintain your health? What was your diet and training like during this point? Thanks again.