effects of long term small dosages?

[xskater]

Are there any benefits or even effects from doing EOD of something like 50 mg test e as a booster or is it go for it or not. Im trying to break a plateu but not ready to completely screw my test levels just yet until I know im really stuck.

 

[Dave_19]

Enanthate has a 10.5 day half life, so EOD makes no sense at 50mg. You can easily do it every 5 days at a higher dose and achieve the same blood test levels. But you are on a solid track. I personally prefer and think long duration low dosage cycles are much more Ideal over the long term then cycling up and down.

 

[Ness]

Enanthate has a 10.5 day half life, so EOD makes no sense at 50mg.

I disagree. 50mgs EOD will minimize estrogen conversion and that lessens the chance for many side effects. This is only one of a billion reasons why EOD enan makes perfect sense.

 

[Dave_19]

I disagree. 50mgs EOD will minimize estrogen conversion and that lessens the chance for many side effects. This is only one of a billion reasons why EOD enan makes perfect sense.

Well, I would love to hear your other 999,999,999 reasons
If the total MG per week is the same <1g/week, your dosing schedule over time is going to become completely irrelevant with Enanthate as long as its consistent.

Enanthate is one of the last Test esters you would choose if you wanted to run at an EOD schedule. The whole reason the Enanthate ester was designed, was so that you didn't have to inject EOD. For that we have Propionate would be your first if you wanted to poke yourself that often. The release time of Enanthate is 8-10 days, it doesn't really matter if you take 50mg EOD or 100mg every 4 days, its going to effect you the SAME.

Also although I'm a fan of low dose long duration, 50mg EOD is only going to equal about 175mg/week or so. Natural Production on avg for most middle age males is going to be around 100-200mg/week, most which would be lost after the first week at 200mg, since 200mg is about 2/3-3/4th suppressive to HPTA. As far as worry's of aromatizing, an EOD dosing schedule is irrelevant to Enanthate, total weekly MG are going to be a bigger factor to pay attention too, obviously you don't want to spike too high past 200-250mg/per inj.

 

[kscowboy]

Great info there Dave!!!

 

[xskater]

thanks for the info guys. So are you saying whether I do a full cycle or a low dosage cycle its still going to do the same thing to my natty test levels? Or would it better maintain them as being close to normal or recoverable until I need to step it up further.

Is it actually going to be any benefits on gains and such or will i just be replacing my natural test production with a suplemental amount and not be increasing it.

 

[Ness]

Here is an excellent 13 page thread on using 50mgs EOD...advocated by an IFBB PRO...enjoy:

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/39887-why-i-think.html

It should include a handful of the other 999,999,999 reasons. lol.

 

[Dave_19]

The topic of that thread is not even the same here. I am more focused on an EOD dosing schedule for an ester that releases over an 8-10 day period. Op is stating he is stuck at a plateau. 50mg EOD was proposed (about 175mg/week or so). A common TRT dose for the middle aged man looking to have avg - to slightly above avg blood test levels is 150-250mg/week of something like Cyp (very similar to Enanth). A doctor’s goal would not be to make your free test 3-4x as much as a natural young adult. Naturally your free test can range from the mid 200's to 1000ng/dL. In my opinion if you were at the higher end of this spectrum I would not risk trying a very modest TRT dose. Technical speaking an avg male may produce 6-7mg/day, but understand it’s not utilized at a real time rate as it’s produced. Hence the example above. This is why we look at things like free test, LH, & FSH through a blood panel to really see how fluent your hormones are.

Honestly this isn't about a right or wrong thing so don't take anything personal. If someone asked for advice on say losing 10lbs of fat in 3 months, one could say ketogenic, another could say carb cycle, another a calorie deficit, and another guy P90X. Who would be right? In a sense every one, there are 100s of paths to the same destination. This is my 2cents about an Ideal dose for athletic reasons (not HRT or TRT) Negative side effects would be extremely minimal, while positive sides would increase with a slightly bumped up dose to 250-400mg/week.

 

[Ness]

Yes Dave I agree.

 

[xskater]

Thanks for all the info guys, I checked the article out it was pretty informative. My main question is that would a 50 mg eod screw my natural test levels permanently like a normal high dose cycle? What do you think about a good dosage being if not?

 

[kid1dakota]

Thanks for all the info guys, I checked the article out it was pretty informative. My main question is that would a 50 mg eod screw my natural test levels permanently like a normal high dose cycle? What do you think about a good dosage being if not?

Well,anytime you use testosterone supplementation even at low doses you are temporarily(unless hypogonadal,then you are already deficient) "shutting down" most of your natural test production.

The key is to do what is called post cycle therapy to help recover your natural production quicker and get you cranking at full speed again.But this is a big debate also amongst users.Some feel time off is enough others feel it is gospel to do PCT.


I remember seeing a study once that as little as 25-50 mg per week starts shutting you down.So I can't give you an optimal dose as you requested.

So research and decide what you feel most comfortable doing.

 

[xskater]

I heard nolva at 20 mg ed 2 wks then 10 mg for 1 wk can wrap up a low dose cycle well, I would assume if I didnt want to take the rule of thumb on that that blood tests would be the only true way to find out? Im more questioning long term unrecoverable damage as a long hard cycle would present then short term defiecencies.

 

[Ness]

look into hcg

 

[kid1dakota]

I heard nolva at 20 mg ed 2 wks then 10 mg for 1 wk can wrap up a low dose cycle well, I would assume if I didnt want to take the rule of thumb on that that blood tests would be the only true way to find out? Im more questioning long term unrecoverable damage as a long hard cycle would present then short term defiecencies.

You can use nolva and I would also incorporate HCG as Ness suggested.

Blood tests are the only true way to see correct.

To many variables to answer your question with an absolute on "long term unrecoverable damage on long hard cycle" Age,individual resiliance,etc...

Plus unfortunately for us there just arent many legit studies on the subject.Actually only two that are either a university study or a peer reviewed pulished medical journal.And neither of those is on long term effects.

That is why we try and share what ever info we can with each other and try be safe as possible.

 

[xskater]

so what would be the opinion on a long term cycles that looked like the following

1-5 50 mg eod
6-10 75 mg eod
11-15 100mg eod
11-15 nolva 20mg ed
16-20 75mg eod
16-20 10 mg nolva ed

then continue out on 50 mg eod teste, 10mg nolva ed for 5 more weeks with the nolva running an extra week or two.

In perosnal research ive done since the posting it seems the idea is that hitting your body with higher doses right away si what screws it up most, the gradual increase in dosage and gradual downgrade should in theory let the body adapt. the nolva will help dry it up and keep estro low?

 

[kid1dakota]

so what would be the opinion on a long term cycles that looked like the following

1-5 50 mg eod
6-10 75 mg eod
11-15 100mg eod
11-15 nolva 20mg ed
16-20 75mg eod
16-20 10 mg nolva ed

then continue out on 50 mg eod teste, 10mg nolva ed for 5 more weeks with the nolva running an extra week or two.

In perosnal research ive done since the posting it seems the idea is that hitting your body with higher doses right away si what screws it up most, the gradual increase in dosage and gradual downgrade should in theory let the body adapt. the nolva will help dry it up and keep estro low?

Essentially what you are proposing is an old school type of cycling called pyramiding.
Some older guys I know still do this and still don't use a PCT.I have heard some good arguments for doing this but I feel its outdated.

I would run one dose for a set number of weeks and do a proper pct.

I also would run an Aromatase inhibitor such as arimidex or aromasin if estrogen sides are a problem.Nolva is not your best choice for estro management.If gyno appears it may be neccassary at that time.

HCG and nolva after as PCT.Some like Clomid instead of Nolva,do some research and make that decision.