Everything Cardarine…

[NEMSZ]

Hello Gents! Hope everyone is doing good..

As some of you know; I’m very into grappling (BJJ, wrestling, judo etc) with the intent of competing and making it to a high level..

As my training has progressed so have my skills and technique but my biggest kryptonite at the moment is my gas tank, my cardio is absolute dog shit for anything more than 1-2 good rounds (5 min per round)…

There’s a guy who comes in to train who’s got 9 years of BJJ under his belt and did wrestling growing up, he’s won several competitions at higher belt levels than his, he’s a blue belt but because a lot of gyms won’t promote you, or if they do it’s very slowly unless you do GI training as well, and he only ever does no gi (as do I and my gym is only no gi anyway, my coach doesn’t care about that).. This guy has won some big comps at the purple and brown belt levels so he’s pretty damn good.. A couple weeks ago he was submitting me multiple times per round, this past week, after rolling with him and finding his game, we did our first round and it was like an ADCC match in my mind, we were going at it, super fast paced, high pressure, we both went for subs on each other but both escaped and continued, the coach and most of the class stayed watching, it was one of my best rolls and the coach was impressed.. Took a 30 second break, went for round 2 with him and I was GASSED 30 seconds in.. I had nothing left and had to go defense mode and he took over and subbed me twice..

I feel like if I could’ve kept up the pace or outpaced him and made him fold, I could’ve beat him…

So here I am wanting to know everything I can about Cardarine as some guys on here and from what I’ve researched say it’s a god send for cardio..

From what I understand; how it works is it basically changes the body from using glucose as energy to using fats as energy which uses up much less energy therefore less oxygen to put out the same amount of effort??

I’ve heard of people saying it increased their cardio anywhere from 30%-60% almost instantly… Not sure how true that is but thankfully I have this forum to bless me with reality lol..

What were your results with it?

What can I expect from it?

Side effects?

Any jitters or elevated heart rate feeling?

The whole cancer thing is the only thing that put me off to it, but from what guys on here have said like @Performance Based and @Big Dave Smith, those studies are bullshit and it’s perfectly safe and many have used it on and off for over a decade with zero ill effects, and wanting to take my training to the next level, I’m wanting to give it a try…

Been researching since my last thread about help with PEDs for this endeavor and this is my last inquiry before taking the dive (or not, depending on the feedback lol) Was looking at grabbing some from MA… Any and all input is welcome..

Thanks again everyone

 

[luki7788]

Personally, I did not notice any improvement in performance after Cadarine, but I used a maximum of 20 mg a day and I know guys who compete as professionals in MMA and they use even 50-60 mg a day, so it is possible that with such doses the increase in performance is significant.

 

[Worldsfastestfatty]

My experience with cardarine is much different to @luki7788 experience however the application I was using for is likely different. I found it highly effective at 10mg ed. I noticed some additional benefit when increasing to 20mg ed but not sufficient enough for me to further raise dose from this point.

I was however using it to support triathlon training and distance running. I found that it greatly increased my "time to bonk" and meant I could be a little more sloppy with my refuelling (something I always struggle with on longer races). So if normally I'd start to get low energy availablity and begin to bonk at the 13ish mile mark without refuelling I'd maybe get 16miles @ 8minute mile pace with cardarine.

Obviously this is predominantly zone 2/3 work where fats are generally an effective fuel source; by reducing glycogen consumption at this level of output you'll be able to go much longer as your glycogen stores will last longer. For purely glycogenic work (IE sprinting & hill climbing) I noticed no benefit from cardarine.

Never tried BJJ or any from of combat sport so not sure if it's glycogenic or not? Also cardarine has no impact on improving vo2max or blood oxygenation so if these are "bottlenecks" for your aerobic capacity I doubt it would help

 

[juggy38]

Hello Gents! Hope everyone is doing good..

As some of you know; I’m very into grappling (BJJ, wrestling, judo etc) with the intent of competing and making it to a high level..

As my training has progressed so have my skills and technique but my biggest kryptonite at the moment is my gas tank, my cardio is absolute dog shit for anything more than 1-2 good rounds (5 min per round)…

There’s a guy who comes in to train who’s got 9 years of BJJ under his belt and did wrestling growing up, he’s won several competitions at higher belt levels than his, he’s a blue belt but because a lot of gyms won’t promote you, or if they do it’s very slowly unless you do GI training as well, and he only ever does no gi (as do I and my gym is only no gi anyway, my coach doesn’t care about that).. This guy has won some big comps at the purple and brown belt levels so he’s pretty damn good.. A couple weeks ago he was submitting me multiple times per round, this past week, after rolling with him and finding his game, we did our first round and it was like an ADCC match in my mind, we were going at it, super fast paced, high pressure, we both went for subs on each other but both escaped and continued, the coach and most of the class stayed watching, it was one of my best rolls and the coach was impressed.. Took a 30 second break, went for round 2 with him and I was GASSED 30 seconds in.. I had nothing left and had to go defense mode and he took over and subbed me twice..

I feel like if I could’ve kept up the pace or outpaced him and made him fold, I could’ve beat him…

So here I am wanting to know everything I can about Cardarine as some guys on here and from what I’ve researched say it’s a god send for cardio..

From what I understand; how it works is it basically changes the body from using glucose as energy to using fats as energy which uses up much less energy therefore less oxygen to put out the same amount of effort??

I’ve heard of people saying it increased their cardio anywhere from 30%-60% almost instantly… Not sure how true that is but thankfully I have this forum to bless me with reality lol..

What were your results with it?

What can I expect from it?

Side effects?

Any jitters or elevated heart rate feeling?

The whole cancer thing is the only thing that put me off to it, but from what guys on here have said like @Performance Based and @Big Dave Smith, those studies are bullshit and it’s perfectly safe and many have used it on and off for over a decade with zero ill effects, and wanting to take my training to the next level, I’m wanting to give it a try…

Been researching since my last thread about help with PEDs for this endeavor and this is my last inquiry before taking the dive (or not, depending on the feedback lol) Was looking at grabbing some from MA… Any and all input is welcome..

Thanks again everyone

The cancer studies are not shit. Yes they are rodents, but the Human equivalent dosages PROPERLY calculated is around 40mg ED iirc.

Yes it was for a long period, and yes lab rats usually die of cancer if left alone. And yea there are some in vitro studies of it
Inhibiting cancer.

Low dose (10mg) could be used for short periods, but I wouldn’t want to be on it long times. I used it prepping for a half Ironman, super effective.

What I WOULD rather you do, is lean into these:

Daily use:

telimisartan: some enduro guys take this up to 160mg per day. The BP lowering effects tend to plateau hard at 80mg. So if you can tolerate 80mg, 120-160 shouldn’t lower your BP that much more.

Injectable cartnitine: 200-300mg EOD, preferably around an insulin spike (endogenous or exogenous).

SR9009 or SR9011: HAS to be injectable! Oral is like 10% bioavailable. 5-10mg subq. Early AM dosing. (Higher doses work better almost liberally up to about 20mg …..but sleeping is a problem for me beyond 10mg.

Acutely: when it’s time for sparring sessions or long seminars:

Caradine: 10-15mg. The shit just works. I would feel ok running this 4x a week for 4-6 weeks, then I’d want time off.

ORAL albuterol: 2-4mg. Opens up the lungs, burns fat, feels good.

Lastly: training……

BJJ training and sparring is NOT ENOUGH to be a cardio demon on the mats. The magic is when you have such a huge aerobic base that your anerobic recovery time is cut down.

Find the LEAST joint/muscle fatiguing cardio training you enjoy. I like airdyne bikes to spread the fatigue across the whole body instead of just thrashing legs like running.

My favorite: rucking. Get a ruck backpack. Find a hiking trail. Go!

Use the maffetone method : (180 BPM - age)= hold this HR for at LEAST 45 minutes, working up to a max of 90 minutes. Beyond 90 minutes, we get no further adaptations for that session.

It’s gonna seem so slow…your HR will want to easily jump higher than this. What you’ll find, as you keep going, your pace and output will slowly increase while you’re holding that HR. Example: you tried this, and you had to walk/jog a 13 minute mile to not go beyond HR limit. A month later, you can jog a 10 minute mile at HR limit. That’s the “gains”.

To make significant gains, 4h a week is needed. 3 h a week will slowly make changes, but 4h seems to be the sweet spot. I’d start with 3 sessions at 45 minutes. Depending on schedule, bump to 4x 45 minutes or 3x 60 minutes. With the additional activity of BJJ and resistant training, 3h should be plenty for slow improvements.

 

[specter]

if you want great cardio effect, get some Meldonium that shit is fuckin insane!

 

[Scuncknuts]

Go jogging and take some iron

 

[Flex500]

The cancer studies are not shit. Yes they are rodents, but the Human equivalent dosages PROPERLY calculated is around 40mg ED iirc.

Yes it was for a long period, and yes lab rats usually die of cancer if left alone. And yea there are some in vitro studies of it
Inhibiting cancer.

Low dose (10mg) could be used for short periods, but I wouldn’t want to be on it long times. I used it prepping for a half Ironman, super effective.

What I WOULD rather you do, is lean into these:

Daily use:

telimisartan: some enduro guys take this up to 160mg per day. The BP lowering effects tend to plateau hard at 80mg. So if you can tolerate 80mg, 120-160 shouldn’t lower your BP that much more.

Injectable cartnitine: 200-300mg EOD, preferably around an insulin spike (endogenous or exogenous).

SR9009 or SR9011: HAS to be injectable! Oral is like 10% bioavailable. 5-10mg subq. Early AM dosing. (Higher doses work better almost liberally up to about 20mg …..but sleeping is a problem for me beyond 10mg.

Acutely: when it’s time for sparring sessions or long seminars:

Caradine: 10-15mg. The shit just works. I would feel ok running this 4x a week for 4-6 weeks, then I’d want time off.

ORAL albuterol: 2-4mg. Opens up the lungs, burns fat, feels good.

Lastly: training……

BJJ training and sparring is NOT ENOUGH to be a cardio demon on the mats. The magic is when you have such a huge aerobic base that your anerobic recovery time is cut down.

Find the LEAST joint/muscle fatiguing cardio training you enjoy. I like airdyne bikes to spread the fatigue across the whole body instead of just thrashing legs like running.

My favorite: rucking. Get a ruck backpack. Find a hiking trail. Go!

Use the maffetone method : (180 BPM - age)= hold this HR for at LEAST 45 minutes, working up to a max of 90 minutes. Beyond 90 minutes, we get no further adaptations for that session.

It’s gonna seem so slow…your HR will want to easily jump higher than this. What you’ll find, as you keep going, your pace and output will slowly increase while you’re holding that HR. Example: you tried this, and you had to walk/jog a 13 minute mile to not go beyond HR limit. A month later, you can jog a 10 minute mile at HR limit. That’s the “gains”.

To make significant gains, 4h a week is needed. 3 h a week will slowly make changes, but 4h seems to be the sweet spot. I’d start with 3 sessions at 45 minutes. Depending on schedule, bump to 4x 45 minutes or 3x 60 minutes. With the additional activity of BJJ and resistant training, 3h should be plenty for slow improvements.

Great post...mostly came to post what you did to start. The rodent studies are not sh**, as you put it. They are not perfect but they are not crap and as you noted, the human equivalent dose is like 40mgs. Cardarine did more for my lipids than any other drug and I assure you a pharma company would be cashing in if that rodent study wasn't a concern. Cardarine is dirt ass cheap and you have an impact that literally obliterates ldl cholesterol with little to no immediate side effects.

I'd use it all the time at a low dose, but the more I read of the cancer studies and why the drug was abandoned, it just wasn't worth it.

 

[CorgisOnTren]

The cancer studies are not shit. Yes they are rodents, but the Human equivalent dosages PROPERLY calculated is around 40mg ED iirc.

Yes it was for a long period, and yes lab rats usually die of cancer if left alone. And yea there are some in vitro studies of it
Inhibiting cancer.

Low dose (10mg) could be used for short periods, but I wouldn’t want to be on it long times. I used it prepping for a half Ironman, super effective.

What I WOULD rather you do, is lean into these:

Daily use:

telimisartan: some enduro guys take this up to 160mg per day. The BP lowering effects tend to plateau hard at 80mg. So if you can tolerate 80mg, 120-160 shouldn’t lower your BP that much more.

Injectable cartnitine: 200-300mg EOD, preferably around an insulin spike (endogenous or exogenous).

SR9009 or SR9011: HAS to be injectable! Oral is like 10% bioavailable. 5-10mg subq. Early AM dosing. (Higher doses work better almost liberally up to about 20mg …..but sleeping is a problem for me beyond 10mg.

Acutely: when it’s time for sparring sessions or long seminars:

Caradine: 10-15mg. The shit just works. I would feel ok running this 4x a week for 4-6 weeks, then I’d want time off.

ORAL albuterol: 2-4mg. Opens up the lungs, burns fat, feels good.

Lastly: training……

BJJ training and sparring is NOT ENOUGH to be a cardio demon on the mats. The magic is when you have such a huge aerobic base that your anerobic recovery time is cut down.

Find the LEAST joint/muscle fatiguing cardio training you enjoy. I like airdyne bikes to spread the fatigue across the whole body instead of just thrashing legs like running.

My favorite: rucking. Get a ruck backpack. Find a hiking trail. Go!

Use the maffetone method : (180 BPM - age)= hold this HR for at LEAST 45 minutes, working up to a max of 90 minutes. Beyond 90 minutes, we get no further adaptations for that session.

It’s gonna seem so slow…your HR will want to easily jump higher than this. What you’ll find, as you keep going, your pace and output will slowly increase while you’re holding that HR. Example: you tried this, and you had to walk/jog a 13 minute mile to not go beyond HR limit. A month later, you can jog a 10 minute mile at HR limit. That’s the “gains”.

To make significant gains, 4h a week is needed. 3 h a week will slowly make changes, but 4h seems to be the sweet spot. I’d start with 3 sessions at 45 minutes. Depending on schedule, bump to 4x 45 minutes or 3x 60 minutes. With the additional activity of BJJ and resistant training, 3h should be plenty for slow improvements.

My understanding is that the studies are often dismissed because they were performed on wistar Hans rats whom are super carcinogenic in nature and almost always live very short lives due to cancer/tumor development whether they are administered cardarine or not, making it a poor sample to reflect humans.

 

[jaxino]

I take 20mg cardarine daily mainly for the effects on lipids.
I have to admit that i rarely get winded since i use it.

 

[juggy38]

My understanding is that the studies are often dismissed because they were performed on wistar Hans rats whom are super carcinogenic in nature and almost always live very short lives due to cancer/tumor development whether they are administered cardarine or not, making it a poor sample to reflect humans.

Yes, the wistar rats usually die of cancer. But that’s a poor argument defending cancer.

You know what else cancer is the leading cause of death? Pet cats, dogs, most animals kept in captivity.

Animals don’t kill themselves with hedonism and inactivity , unlike humans.

So saying the rat was gonna die of cancer anyways…,well yea, it’s basically a pet.

But yes I think that rat might have genetic susceptibility. Never looked that far down.

 

[showstopper83]

Personally, I did not notice any improvement in performance after Cadarine, but I used a maximum of 20 mg a day and I know guys who compete as professionals in MMA and they use even 50-60 mg a day, so it is possible that with such doses the increase in performance is significant.

I have actually been wondering this question for a long time on cardarine dosage, as I have never heard of anyone dosing it above 20mg/day. I may experiment with 30-40mg to see how much that helps.

 

[goback2013]

I feel cardarine only works when you have strengthened your cardio over time.
If your shit is wrecked and clogged then you'll probably not feel any improvements.
I see guys walking on the treadmill at 3mph holding onto the rails. At a Max duration of 5mins.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

What belt are you? What height and weight?

If you can’t go more than 1-2 rounds of sparring, take everything everyone suggested above and toss it out the window.

If you can’t roll beyond that, you’re VERY out of shape.

From white to early purple, I’d gas out after 3-4 rounds, take rounds off, etc… but I was 265-270lbs. I got sick of it… so I showed up early and left late. I took every single match, regardless of fatigue, and sucked it up. NO DRUGS ARE NEEDED.

I can’t emphasize this enough. You need to work, not take drugs.

I’m 14 years in, first degree black belt. I can roll for over an hour (5-6 min matches, 30-60 sec rest) EASILY… and I’m still unreasonably big. It’s not because of cardarine, carnitine, meldonium.

Work more. That is the solution.

 

[Performance Based]

Are you running Jeff’s programming still?

We need to identify key metrics that are holding you back and modulate from there. I agree whole heartedly with Dave’s assessment.

Cardarine has absolutely zero impact on zone 2 cardio. If I am not doing something at 85%+ of my aerobic threshold I will not notice it in the slightest.

My 5-7-13 miles did not change on it any of the times I have ran however my 400M and 800M times usually improve by around 10%.

My current morning cardio (on vacation) 15 min row, 30 min bike and a 30 min light run. I am maintaining around 75% of top end performance I would hypothesize. HP sessions 2-3x per week on top of that.

 

[Performance Based]

Another thought per coming to mind - grab a chest strap and actually monitor your heart rate during your sessions. Make sure your output is consistent +/- 10%

When I start off with prep for anything I get so excited and start slipping out of zone 2 cardio with max effort and it hinders me more than helps.

 

[juggy38]

Another thought per coming to mind - grab a chest strap and actually monitor your heart rate during your sessions. Make sure your output is consistent +/- 10%

When I start off with prep for anything I get so excited and start slipping out of zone 2 cardio with max effort and it hinders me more than helps.

I HAVE to stick to the maffetone parameters just because of that last part.

And like @Big Dave Smith said. Do work. Some days rolling, my whole goal is to make as many transitions as possible. Pass guard, take side control, go to knee mount, get full mount. LET THEM sweep you! Then attack with every sweep you have, or tske the back. Repeat. (Try to stay conscious while doing this )

 

[Cerberus777]

I have actually been wondering this question for a long time on cardarine dosage, as I have never heard of anyone dosing it above 20mg/day. I may experiment with 30-40mg to see how much that helps.

You can train with 20mg a day. Then on days of an event dose 40mg for peak performance day vs doing 40mg every day. It doesn't have to build up, works the same day.

 

[showstopper83]

You can train with 20mg a day. Then on days of an event dose 40mg for peak performance day vs doing 40mg every day. It doesn't have to build up, works the same day.

Im 40 and decades removed from being an athlete. My interest in cardarine is for fat loss and blood glucose loading purposes.

 

[Cerberus777]

Im 40 and decades removed from being an athlete. My interest in cardarine is for fat loss and blood glucose loading purposes.

20mg is probably ideal. Most get a decent cardio benefit and you used Moore fat if you do the cardio. If you don't do cardio regularly it's not going to do anything for fat loss.

 

[NEMSZ]

The cancer studies are not shit. Yes they are rodents, but the Human equivalent dosages PROPERLY calculated is around 40mg ED iirc.

Yes it was for a long period, and yes lab rats usually die of cancer if left alone. And yea there are some in vitro studies of it
Inhibiting cancer.

Low dose (10mg) could be used for short periods, but I wouldn’t want to be on it long times. I used it prepping for a half Ironman, super effective.

What I WOULD rather you do, is lean into these:

Daily use:

telimisartan: some enduro guys take this up to 160mg per day. The BP lowering effects tend to plateau hard at 80mg. So if you can tolerate 80mg, 120-160 shouldn’t lower your BP that much more.

Injectable cartnitine: 200-300mg EOD, preferably around an insulin spike (endogenous or exogenous).

SR9009 or SR9011: HAS to be injectable! Oral is like 10% bioavailable. 5-10mg subq. Early AM dosing. (Higher doses work better almost liberally up to about 20mg …..but sleeping is a problem for me beyond 10mg.

Acutely: when it’s time for sparring sessions or long seminars:

Caradine: 10-15mg. The shit just works. I would feel ok running this 4x a week for 4-6 weeks, then I’d want time off.

ORAL albuterol: 2-4mg. Opens up the lungs, burns fat, feels good.

Lastly: training……

BJJ training and sparring is NOT ENOUGH to be a cardio demon on the mats. The magic is when you have such a huge aerobic base that your anerobic recovery time is cut down.

Find the LEAST joint/muscle fatiguing cardio training you enjoy. I like airdyne bikes to spread the fatigue across the whole body instead of just thrashing legs like running.

My favorite: rucking. Get a ruck backpack. Find a hiking trail. Go!

Use the maffetone method : (180 BPM - age)= hold this HR for at LEAST 45 minutes, working up to a max of 90 minutes. Beyond 90 minutes, we get no further adaptations for that session.

It’s gonna seem so slow…your HR will want to easily jump higher than this. What you’ll find, as you keep going, your pace and output will slowly increase while you’re holding that HR. Example: you tried this, and you had to walk/jog a 13 minute mile to not go beyond HR limit. A month later, you can jog a 10 minute mile at HR limit. That’s the “gains”.

To make significant gains, 4h a week is needed. 3 h a week will slowly make changes, but 4h seems to be the sweet spot. I’d start with 3 sessions at 45 minutes. Depending on schedule, bump to 4x 45 minutes or 3x 60 minutes. With the additional activity of BJJ and resistant training, 3h should be plenty for slow improvements.

Thanks for your reply brother..

I’m definitely going to have to look up some of those things you mentioned and do my research in them, definitely thought about adding in the L Carnitine though, just the daily injections with PIP turn me off about it, that’s why I’ve never been consistent with it..

As for the training, we do conditioning in my gym, then drills and finally live rolls for the last 20 minutes or so and then on Fridays is competition style rolling, so we’ll do conditioning at the beginning of class and then for about an hour after it’s live rolls with maybe 15-20 seconds in between rounds, high paced..

But with trying to fit work, weight training, extra cardio/conditioning and grappling as well as my personal life all into a schedule sometimes one thing or the other has to take a hit, and since I like to keep all my training separate so I’m not slacking in one area or the other it gets difficult..

Lately it’s been my extra cardio sessions that I’ve been slacking on, but I still get a good amount of it done but not sure I’m in the 4 hour per week range..