Fantastic stem cell info on Joe Rogan podcast

[maldorf]

Well my application was denied for Panama. Sucks...still waiting on another couple of them but I imagine if one stem cell treatment can't repair a valve, none can.

Black market has a lot more kidneys than hearts but if you can find one, then by all means, it's worth a shot

Ive still not heard back. I think they sound pretty legit since they gave you a no. If they were just out to rip people off then they would have said yes. I think they will have to tell me no too. I think for us its a matter of injecting the stem cells right into the damaged part, and they use a different type of stem cell too I think. Not an option for me though since my heart is too thin now after my heart attack.

Valve replacement has come a long way now, and fairly routine for surgeons. I know several people that have had them and live a normal life. Just don't get the artificial one. Human or pig.

 

[maldorf]

Approved

Not sure what I will do now. Probably worth me talking to my cardiologist team about it. I am mostly worried that I will just be burning cash and have little chance of any improvement, but part of me is wondering if it might help. I feel like I need to talk to the cardiologists. I need to get ahold of my previous doctor that is heading up all of the stem cell research here and see what he says. I think he would know best. Wont be easy getting to talk to all of those guys, they are busy and have tons of "gate keepers". Getting past the nurses is going to be the challenge. They usually act like they are dealing with idiots, at least some of them.

I'm just thinking that since the stem cells are administered IM and IV, that it wont help my heart much. All the research here is done by directly applying the stem cells to the heart. I think the type of stem cells is different too. I will most probably pursue this further though. Probably call the Stem Cell Institute too and talk to them.

Here is what the email said:

"Our physicians have reviewed your application and have determined you may be a candidate for Heart Failure treatment at the Stem Cell Institute in Panama City, Panama.

Physicians’ Treatment Protocol Recommendation
• 120 million expanded allogeneic mesenchymal stem cells (intravenous administration)
• 20 million expanded allogeneic mesenchymal stem cells (intramuscular administration 4 in biceps and 4 in quadriceps)
• Treatment length 4 days

Pricing
• $28,150 US Dollars
• Pricing valid 90 days from receipt of this email
• Includes:
o Treatment-related medical services and facilities
o Treatment-related laboratory services
o Complimentary 5 night stay at Hilton Panama (standard room) with daily breakfast and Wi-Fi (for 2 adults)
o Complimentary VIP airport gate arrival service (for 2 adults)
o Complimentary Airport and treatment-related transportation service (for 2 adults)"

That is a chunk of change. I wouldn't hesitate to do it if I knew it would help 100%, or even a really high percentage chance. Just don't know since it is all really experimental. Thanks goes out to Nothuman for bringing this place to my attention! If I want to proceed then I need to send them a letter from my doctor as well as a recent echo. I had an echo done not long ago as well as a PET scan which might come in handy.

 

[nothuman]

Not sure what I will do now. Probably worth me talking to my cardiologist team about it. I am mostly worried that I will just be burning cash and have little chance of any improvement, but part of me is wondering if it might help. I feel like I need to talk to the cardiologists. I need to get ahold of my previous doctor that is heading up all of the stem cell research here and see what he says. I think he would know best. Wont be easy getting to talk to all of those guys, they are busy and have tons of "gate keepers". Getting past the nurses is going to be the challenge. They usually act like they are dealing with idiots, at least some of them.

I'm just thinking that since the stem cells are administered IM and IV, that it wont help my heart much. All the research here is done by directly applying the stem cells to the heart. I think the type of stem cells is different too. I will most probably pursue this further though. Probably call the Stem Cell Institute too and talk to them.

Here is what the email said:

"Our physicians have reviewed your application and have determined you may be a candidate for Heart Failure treatment at the Stem Cell Institute in Panama City, Panama.

Physicians’ Treatment Protocol Recommendation
• 120 million expanded allogeneic mesenchymal stem cells (intravenous administration)
• 20 million expanded allogeneic mesenchymal stem cells (intramuscular administration 4 in biceps and 4 in quadriceps)
• Treatment length 4 days

Pricing
• $28,150 US Dollars
• Pricing valid 90 days from receipt of this email
• Includes:
o Treatment-related medical services and facilities
o Treatment-related laboratory services
o Complimentary 5 night stay at Hilton Panama (standard room) with daily breakfast and Wi-Fi (for 2 adults)
o Complimentary VIP airport gate arrival service (for 2 adults)
o Complimentary Airport and treatment-related transportation service (for 2 adults)"

That is a chunk of change. I wouldn't hesitate to do it if I knew it would help 100%, or even a really high percentage chance. Just don't know since it is all really experimental. Thanks goes out to Nothuman for bringing this place to my attention! If I want to proceed then I need to send them a letter from my doctor as well as a recent echo. I had an echo done not long ago as well as a PET scan which might come in handy.

I know it's a lot of money but I wouldn't even hesitate. They denied me and someone else in this thread, which means they aren't out to just take everyone's money. I think stem cells were made for you. There's a place based in San Diego (they drive you to lab in Tijuana) which does fetal stem cells that is $20K is you want to look into that too (I am and it seems very very legit) called stemcellofamerica.com.

I would research the crap out of it if I were you. Stem cells are made for people with heart failure or people who have had MI's. I just spent a week researching this stuff.

 

[maldorf]

I know it's a lot of money but I wouldn't even hesitate. They denied me and someone else in this thread, which means they aren't out to just take everyone's money. I think stem cells were made for you. There's a place based in San Diego (they drive you to lab in Tijuana) which does fetal stem cells that is $20K is you want to look into that too (I am and it seems very very legit) called stemcellofamerica.com.

I would research the crap out of it if I were you. Stem cells are made for people with heart failure or people who have had MI's. I just spent a week researching this stuff.

Yeah, in a way I am glad they turned you down because it tells me just what you said, they apparently don't tell everyone yes to just "take their money". It is good too that you wouldn't waste your money on something that wouldn't help you. I'm interested to see what the other place in San Diego tells you.

What I read back around 08-09 when I had my heart attack was that the stem cells only seemed to help immediately after a heart attack before the remodeling had taken place. Mine has been almost 10 years now and some serious remodeling has taken place. Who knows though, it is such a young science. It seems though that when given IV that the cells really don't have a way of attaching to the scar tissue in my heart since there isn't any circulation there now anyhow. The PET scan showed its all dead tissue and the right coronary artery is completely closed off again. I do have new collateral circulation formed around there though, so maybe some might get in that way.

The study here, they were injecting the stem cells directly into the scar tissue with the hopes that it would implant there and start growing new cardiac tissue. Ive read now that some studies are putting on patches of stem cells that have converted to cardiac. I think that sounds like it might help me. I wish I could find that somewhere. A lot more risk involved in that surgery though.

 

[nothuman]

Yeah, in a way I am glad they turned you down because it tells me just what you said, they apparently don't tell everyone yes to just "take their money". It is good too that you wouldn't waste your money on something that wouldn't help you. I'm interested to see what the other place in San Diego tells you.

What I read back around 08-09 when I had my heart attack was that the stem cells only seemed to help immediately after a heart attack before the remodeling had taken place. Mine has been almost 10 years now and some serious remodeling has taken place. Who knows though, it is such a young science. It seems though that when given IV that the cells really don't have a way of attaching to the scar tissue in my heart since there isn't any circulation there now anyhow. The PET scan showed its all dead tissue and the right coronary artery is completely closed off again. I do have new collateral circulation formed around there though, so maybe some might get in that way.

The study here, they were injecting the stem cells directly into the scar tissue with the hopes that it would implant there and start growing new cardiac tissue. Ive read now that some studies are putting on patches of stem cells that have converted to cardiac. I think that sounds like it might help me. I wish I could find that somewhere. A lot more risk involved in that surgery though.

Worth doing more specified searches in your case then. I think if you ask a normal doctor or nurse, they'll probably tell you it's witchcraft and not proven, etc. I don't trust a conventional medicine doctor's opinion on this kind of thing. I'd look at the studies. I'm jealous you got accepted! It's obviously no guarantee it will work for you, but there's also a chance it will. Tough call

 

[maldorf]

Worth doing more specified searches in your case then. I think if you ask a normal doctor or nurse, they'll probably tell you it's witchcraft and not proven, etc. I don't trust a conventional medicine doctor's opinion on this kind of thing. I'd look at the studies. I'm jealous you got accepted! It's obviously no guarantee it will work for you, but there's also a chance it will. Tough call

Well, the cardiologist I used to see treats a lot of the pro athletes around here and is the founder of the largest/most successful cardiac group here in our area of the state. He also runs a research institute that has been doing stem cell research for over 10 years now. I think if I can communicate with him somehow again, he would be a very valuable asset. I hope maybe I can make an appointment with him and sit down with him. He is the one that tried to help me by entering me into his study but he has to turn me down because my heart is too thin.

 

[nothuman]

Well, the cardiologist I used to see treats a lot of the pro athletes around here and is the founder of the largest/most successful cardiac group here in our area of the state. He also runs a research institute that has been doing stem cell research for over 10 years now. I think if I can communicate with him somehow again, he would be a very valuable asset. I hope maybe I can make an appointment with him and sit down with him. He is the one that tried to help me by entering me into his study but he has to turn me down because my heart is too thin.

Interesting. Maybe he will say something else then.

As far as asking goes, I have a health portal where I am able to send a message to my physicians. I don't know if your health network has this option or not. Otherwise, you could call and ask the questions and see if he or a nurse gets back to you.

 

[Knight9]

Not sure what I will do now. Probably worth me talking to my cardiologist team about it. I am mostly worried that I will just be burning cash and have little chance of any improvement, but part of me is wondering if it might help. I feel like I need to talk to the cardiologists. I need to get ahold of my previous doctor that is heading up all of the stem cell research here and see what he says. I think he would know best. Wont be easy getting to talk to all of those guys, they are busy and have tons of "gate keepers". Getting past the nurses is going to be the challenge. They usually act like they are dealing with idiots, at least some of them.

I'm just thinking that since the stem cells are administered IM and IV, that it wont help my heart much. All the research here is done by directly applying the stem cells to the heart. I think the type of stem cells is different too. I will most probably pursue this further though. Probably call the Stem Cell Institute too and talk to them.

Here is what the email said:

"Our physicians have reviewed your application and have determined you may be a candidate for Heart Failure treatment at the Stem Cell Institute in Panama City, Panama.

Physicians’ Treatment Protocol Recommendation
• 120 million expanded allogeneic mesenchymal stem cells (intravenous administration)
• 20 million expanded allogeneic mesenchymal stem cells (intramuscular administration 4 in biceps and 4 in quadriceps)
• Treatment length 4 days

Pricing
• $28,150 US Dollars
• Pricing valid 90 days from receipt of this email
• Includes:
o Treatment-related medical services and facilities
o Treatment-related laboratory services
o Complimentary 5 night stay at Hilton Panama (standard room) with daily breakfast and Wi-Fi (for 2 adults)
o Complimentary VIP airport gate arrival service (for 2 adults)
o Complimentary Airport and treatment-related transportation service (for 2 adults)"

That is a chunk of change. I wouldn't hesitate to do it if I knew it would help 100%, or even a really high percentage chance. Just don't know since it is all really experimental. Thanks goes out to Nothuman for bringing this place to my attention! If I want to proceed then I need to send them a letter from my doctor as well as a recent echo. I had an echo done not long ago as well as a PET scan which might come in handy.

Reading this put a smile on my face. I am excited for you to possible explore this route bro!

 

[Lene28]

I know it's a lot of money but I wouldn't even hesitate. They denied me and someone else in this thread, which means they aren't out to just take everyone's money. I think stem cells were made for you. There's a place based in San Diego (they drive you to lab in Tijuana) which does fetal stem cells that is $20K is you want to look into that too (I am and it seems very very legit) called stemcellofamerica.com.

I would research the crap out of it if I were you. Stem cells are made for people with heart failure or people who have had MI's. I just spent a week researching this stuff.

They denied me as well. I would ask them if they have treated your specific condition and what the results were.
I know Dan Blizarian got them done in Mexico and they helped him; he never mentioned where or how much though. From what the doctor on Joe Rogan was saying the stem cells in Panama are the best kind. If you are gonna do it I would pay the extra and get the best stem cells vs going to Tijuana.

 

[nothuman]

They denied me as well. I would ask them if they have treated your specific condition and what the results were.
I know Dan Blizarian got them done in Mexico and they helped him; he never mentioned where or how much though. From what the doctor on Joe Rogan was saying the stem cells in Panama are the best kind. If you are gonna do it I would pay the extra and get the best stem cells vs going to Tijuana.

Dan Bilzerian had two acute heart attacks from combining a lot of drugs when partying. He went to Panama with Mel Gibson for his stem cells.

The doctor on the podcast is obviously biased since he is the doctor who does it in Panama. I wouldn't just assume this is the only place that does it that actually works. It just happens to be the most well known thanks to the podcast. I am only saying this because I have been researching and I do think there are other options.

This is long but quite eye opening. It's a documentary about fetal stem cells
**broken link removed**

 

[nothuman]

https://www.thecut.com/2016/06/fetal-stem-cells-treatment-controversy.html

 

[nothuman]

Wow, I just got accepted for fetal stem cells

 

[Floxedone]

Did it help for anything else besides your tendons? Notice any differences in alertness, memory, erection quality, sleep, etc?

I wish I could say yes, but my baseline is so off from "normal" it's hard to say. I think it helped my ability to focus but I wouldn't say it was night and day.

 

[Knight9]

Dan Bilzerian had two acute heart attacks from combining a lot of drugs when partying. He went to Panama with Mel Gibson for his stem cells.

The doctor on the podcast is obviously biased since he is the doctor who does it in Panama. I wouldn't just assume this is the only place that does it that actually works. It just happens to be the most well known thanks to the podcast. I am only saying this because I have been researching and I do think there are other options.

This is long but quite eye opening. It's a documentary about fetal stem cells
**broken link removed**

https://www.thecut.com/2016/06/fetal-stem-cells-treatment-controversy.html

Pretty sure you want mesenchymal stem cells..which is what they were speaking about on the podcast I believe.

Mesenchymal stem cells are multipotent stromal cells that can differentiate into a variety of cell types, including osteoblasts (bone cells), chondrocytes (cartilage cells), myocytes (muscle cells) and adipocytes (fat cells which give rise to marrow adipose tissue).

 

[nothuman]

Pretty sure you want mesenchymal stem cells..which is what they were speaking about on the podcast I believe.

Mesenchymal stem cells are multipotent stromal cells that can differentiate into a variety of cell types, including osteoblasts (bone cells), chondrocytes (cartilage cells), myocytes (muscle cells) and adipocytes (fat cells which give rise to marrow adipose tissue).

Well, that's his take on the ones he says are the best.

Their take is different
**broken link removed**

There is another place I contacted in Florida (searsinstitute.com) that does adipose stem cells and they claimed theirs' was better over the phone.

So at the end of the day, everyone claims their type of stem cells is superior. It's really up to us to sort out the data and find the truth. I think all can work to some degree.

 

[Floxedone]

My stem cell count from adipose transplant was 2.1 billion.
My brother in law had 300 million.

Expanded means they are taken out and multiplied. One of the selling points to adipose based treatment is that they are not expanded and are supposed to be "Better" for that reason.

I KNOW this is all new and "experimental" but I would just like to point at that it might be good to do some hard cardio right after an injection that way there will be a strong signal for the stem cells to follow to the heart. From what I read inflammation is on of the signal.

PLEASE also note that recent studies have shown that NITRIC oxide DRASTICALLY improves stem cell therapy outcomes.

Nitric Oxide - A Holy Gail of Stem Cell Therapy - Institute of regenerative medicine®
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0734975015300379

So I KNOW it won't be anything "strange" to tell a BBer to take a NO booster and do cardio!
But in reality those minor things could help you get ALL the benefit possible from the costly treatment.

Praying for a miracle for you!..medical or mystical

 

[nothuman]

My stem cell count from adipose transplant was 2.1 billion.
My brother in law had 300 million.

Expanded means they are taken out and multiplied. One of the selling points to adipose based treatment is that they are not expanded and are supposed to be "Better" for that reason.

I KNOW this is all new and "experimental" but I would just like to point at that it might be good to do some hard cardio right after an injection that way there will be a strong signal for the stem cells to follow to the heart. From what I read inflammation is on of the signal.

PLEASE also note that recent studies have shown that NITRIC oxide DRASTICALLY improves stem cell therapy outcomes.

Nitric Oxide - A Holy Gail of Stem Cell Therapy - Institute of regenerative medicine®
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0734975015300379

So I KNOW it won't be anything "strange" to tell a BBer to take a NO booster and do cardio!
But in reality those minor things could help you get ALL the benefit possible from the costly treatment.

Praying for a miracle for you!..medical or mystical

Great info. Might as well do cardio and take NO after the stem cells just in case. Couldn't hurt

 

[nothuman]

My stem cell count from adipose transplant was 2.1 billion.
My brother in law had 300 million.

Expanded means they are taken out and multiplied. One of the selling points to adipose based treatment is that they are not expanded and are supposed to be "Better" for that reason.

I KNOW this is all new and "experimental" but I would just like to point at that it might be good to do some hard cardio right after an injection that way there will be a strong signal for the stem cells to follow to the heart. From what I read inflammation is on of the signal.

PLEASE also note that recent studies have shown that NITRIC oxide DRASTICALLY improves stem cell therapy outcomes.

Nitric Oxide - A Holy Gail of Stem Cell Therapy - Institute of regenerative medicine®
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0734975015300379

So I KNOW it won't be anything "strange" to tell a BBer to take a NO booster and do cardio!
But in reality those minor things could help you get ALL the benefit possible from the costly treatment.

Praying for a miracle for you!..medical or mystical

So my options are adipose or fetal. Fetal is double the price and requires a trip to San Diego (where they bring me to Jijuana). Adipose is in Florida. Tough choice.

 

[G-FLUX]

I just have to say I love how crazy our knowledge and technology is getting...and to think we're barely scratching the surface on our potential as a race

 

[Floxedone]

So my options are adipose or fetal. Fetal is double the price and requires a trip to San Diego (where they bring me to Jijuana). Adipose is in Florida. Tough choice.

It is a tough choice.

Also many adipose stem cell treatment centers will do intranasal injections. I had one. They give a sugar(cant remember which) to make the Blood/brain barrier more permeable and inject some into the nose that travel to the brain.

Although I have never heard of any side effect from this there is an added risk, any intra-nasal and some facial injections carry the risk of blindness as the artery that supplies the eyes can become blocked by whatever is being injected (very rare but still a risk).

Also intranasal are usually done for people with brain/neurological disorders so it may not even be beneficial for some/most people.

I think most Adipose based stem cell centers ALSO inject the stem cells in PRP, I am not sure what the cost of PRP treatment is but you could see that as an added value, if beneficial at all.