Anyone here listens to Joe Rogan?

[stackdizzy]

There is subjective truth in the sense of one's opinion. If you prefer blue over red, it is subjectively true that blue is your favorite color.

Personally I speak of scientific or empirical truth, which is not subjective.

I don't think you can get scientific or empirical truth from all information obtained in the news. I think in some cases you can. Like the fact that user stackdizzy posted this message at a certain time from a certain location or guy admits to some crime as someone posted something to that effect above is entirely provable That being said there are things that fail as they don't really make sense and lead to conspiracy theories some of which have very speculative "facts". Some the people are on the news or TV and have incentives to lie without retribution and will never make it to court.

 

[hawkmoon]

I don't think you can get scientific or empirical truth from all information obtained in the news. I think in some cases you can. Like the fact that user stackdizzy posted this message at a certain time from a certain location or guy admits to some crime as someone posted something to that effect above is entirely provable That being said there are things that fail as they don't really make sense and lead to conspiracy theories some of which have very speculative "facts". Some the people are on the news or TV and have incentives to lie without retribution and will never make it to court.

I'm not talking about news broadcasts, which obviously have an economic interest, much as socal media does now.

Almost all commercial media will seek sensationalism, as has been the case since the advent of yellow journalism.

Much of the news can be either verified or disproven fairly easily. The problem today is that we are seeing the after effects of media and broadcast deregulation enacted in the 1980s and the evasion of the fairness doctrine, most exploited by cable news.

Viewers aren't watching to be informed today, but seeking entertainment and reinforcement of existing biases - which are in turn used to capture viewers and further boost revenue. A certain "news" organization was recently fined nearly $800m for lying, and few seem to care. This same company once defended their actions in court by stating that no reasonable person would take their hosts seriously. Amazing. If people truly cared about the news as a source of accurate information they'd only watch CSPAN and PBS - but they are boring now.

The news (and socal media) are often guilty of egregious manipulation, but I'm actually more concerned with people promoting outright falsehoods as if they are facts, and the erosion of the importance of objective truth. People are getting used to facts not mattering.

 

[VaginaBoob89]

One other thing. I keep seeing the term "MSM" or mainstream media. Can someone please list what is mainstream and what is not mainstream? If a podcast reaches more listeners/viewers than say NBC, CBS, ABC, 24hr cable news, etc.

Doesn't the podcast or substack or whatever become the defacto mainstream news if it maintains the largest audience?

The rest might better be called 'legacy' media or 'old school'. I'd like to listen/watch more non-mainstream media, if someone could suggest a few good feeds. I've seen/heard some really awful ones (for example, TYT...awful).

Television on cable or network is mainstream. Most popular news papers (NYT, WSJ, TFT etc) are mainstream. BAsically if something is widely consumed by the vast swaths of retirees over age 60, it's mainstream and full of garbage propaganda. I'm sure the Rogan or TYT audience average age is like 15-20 years younger than CNBC. TYT is awful, but it's definitely not mainstream media and they're willing to depart on several important narratives the mainstream pushes. For instance, they are surprisingly anti- ukraine war. You generally just won't find this position represented among mainstream media catering to people on the political left.

After me (Ms.c in economics, Msc in mathematical finance, economics teacher for 10 years, formerly a phd student but did not finish hence the second masters) spending about 2.5 hours trying to explain cryptocurrency to my mom (at her behest, not mine) she then proceeded to send me some dogshit NYT article written by some boomer finance prof who's thesis was essentially "bro crypto is liek way too optimistic". My older cousin is a lawyer who has been working in crypto regulation at the state level for the last 3 years and became a multilmillionare in the 2020 bull market. He spent a good 4 hours over two days explaining things to her. To no avail... she still thinks the entire thing is a ponzi scheme.

Most sorta middle and low IQ average people in their 60s aren't capable of digesting and processing complex ideas in a long format that requires some abstraction or critical thinking. Mainstream media knows this and caters to them perfectly. It's never going away despite all the scandals, intentional deception, and attempts to discredit their less mainstream competitors because people are really fucking dumb overall and there's still a huge market for it.

 

[lntense]

I used to be a big fan but I feel like he’s gone off the rails and has become more outrageous for click bait…

How so? All of his video titles on spotify are the same generic post.


Do you mean others posting videos about conversations from his podcast?

 

[lookslikesausage]

I'm not talking about news broadcasts, which obviously have an economic interest, much as socal media does now.

Almost all commercial media will seek sensationalism, as has been the case since the advent of yellow journalism.

Much of the news can be either verified or disproven fairly easily. The problem today is that we are seeing the after effects of media and broadcast deregulation enacted in the 1980s and the evasion of the fairness doctrine, most exploited by cable news.

Viewers aren't watching to be informed today, but seeking entertainment and reinforcement of existing biases - which are in turn used to capture viewers and further boost revenue. A certain "news" organization was recently fined nearly $800m for lying, and few seem to care. This same company once defended their actions in court by stating that no reasonable person would take their hosts seriously. Amazing. If people truly cared about the news as a source of accurate information they'd only watch CSPAN and PBS - but they are boring now.

The news (and socal media) are often guilty of egregious manipulation, but I'm actually more concerned with people promoting outright falsehoods as if they are facts, and the erosion of the importance of objective truth. People are getting used to facts not mattering.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

TYT is awful, but it's definitely not mainstream media and they're willing to depart on several important narratives the mainstream pushes. For instance, they are surprisingly anti- ukraine war. You generally just won't find this position represented among mainstream media catering to people on the political left.

"Mainstream pushes"? What does that mean? When someone says something like, "The MSM would have you believe that..." What media outlets are they referring to? I believe in those cases, they are referring to one or more of the following: Fox, CNN, Newsmax, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo, WSJ, NYPost, etc. I find it almost unfathomable the degree of polarity in beliefs worldwide. How we ever bridge this immense chasm is certainly unknown to me.

For example, here is a perfect example of gaslighting (or possibly being gaslit):

...they are surprisingly anti- ukraine war.

It isn't a Ukrainian war. Russia invaded Ukraine and Ukraine is fighting to maintain their sovereignty. If Ukraine stops fighting, they lose their independence. If Russia stops fighting, the killing stops, the war ends. This is a Russan war IN Ukraine. What TYT and others are really against is the US aiding Ukraine in defending itself.

I'm fairly certainly all ordinary citizens are antiwar. What kind person really wants a war? Almost nobody. Although certainly corrupt governments like the US, China, Russia, hired mercenaries, and defense contractors probably love war. But your average American, Ukrainian, or Russian citizen doesn't want war.

It's very difficult to reconcile the concept of MSM media in my head. My guess is that MSM moniker is just a euphemism for media outlets that swing left.

Fortunately for all of us, these legacy media outlets have a bleak future as boomers are expiring.

 

[stackdizzy]

Any war or any conflict/divide/movement for that matter is only perpetuated by the dollars that can be made off said conflict. Politicians are nothing but paid "influencers".

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Any war or any conflict/divide/movement for that matter is only perpetuated by the dollars that can be made off said conflict. Politicians are nothing but paid "influencers".

Yes. As the saying goes, "War is old men talking and young men dying."

 

[marssel]

I'm not talking about news broadcasts, which obviously have an economic interest, much as socal media does now.

Almost all commercial media will seek sensationalism, as has been the case since the advent of yellow journalism.

Much of the news can be either verified or disproven fairly easily. The problem today is that we are seeing the after effects of media and broadcast deregulation enacted in the 1980s and the evasion of the fairness doctrine, most exploited by cable news.

Viewers aren't watching to be informed today, but seeking entertainment and reinforcement of existing biases - which are in turn used to capture viewers and further boost revenue. A certain "news" organization was recently fined nearly $800m for lying, and few seem to care. This same company once defended their actions in court by stating that no reasonable person would take their hosts seriously. Amazing. If people truly cared about the news as a source of accurate information they'd only watch CSPAN and PBS - but they are boring now.

The news (and socal media) are often guilty of egregious manipulation, but I'm actually more concerned with people promoting outright falsehoods as if they are facts, and the erosion of the importance of objective truth. People are getting used to facts not mattering.

Well put in short people tune in to hear they’re already right in their opinions which they obtained generally on a sub conscious level from internet, music , and social media-critical thinking is GONE

 

[marssel]

Yes. As the saying goes, "War is old men talking and young men dying."

What’s unsaid but is exactly your point as a young Marine I craved war and lived for conflict, 15 years ago I would’ve volunteered for Ukraine bc I was stupid, as you get older you see it’s all bullshit. The pride is still there and I love being a Marine and thought while my wife was preggers he was gonna be a Marine in a combat MOS, now he’s here I want him not being shot at ever. Age+experience=reality unless say you get too old to walk up stairs then well….

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Here is the bottom line on misinformation and frankly outright lies. They fail in the face of evidence.

This has been demonstrated a lot over the past few years. People make wild claims of fraud, etc in the media. People get excited, people believe.

Yet when these matters are brought to a court of law, where evidence and truth count, they universally collapse.

Truth and facts matter.

Opinions and facts are not the same thing.

Damn, this is so true. And when ideologues can't budge the truth, their cognitive dissonance requires that rather than accept a given fact backed by incontrovertible evidence they just move the goal posts, so to speak—seek to change the rules of the game and instill doubt and suspicion in the methodology, individuals, and institutions used to ascertain the truth from both competing or multiple hypotheses.

Who could have imagined 20 years ago that NATO, the WHO, and CDC would be vilified and demonized while a drugged up, failed comedian, UMass dropout from New Jersey with a microphone and a flag on the wall behind him would capture the attention of 10 to 15 million Americans per episode. But he struck a chord with many Americans who seem to be perpetually suspicious and angry. And he knew exactly what to do. His success is well-deserved despite my personal feelings on what he's doing to our society and security.

Instill doubt in every individual or institution by continually churning out every single thing done or being done wrong while ignoring or hiding everything being done right. Truth then becomes this nebulous ambiguity where nobody really knows what to believe so all trust is lost and it all gravitates toward the worst.

I say, if you want to find the truth you need only do two things:
1) watch what they do, not what they say and
2) follow the money

As it's been said, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

 

[VaginaBoob89]

"Mainstream pushes"? What does that mean? When someone says something like, "The MSM would have you believe that..." What media outlets are they referring to? I believe in those cases, they are referring to one or more of the following: Fox, CNN, Newsmax, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo, WSJ, NYPost, etc. I find it almost unfathomable the degree of polarity in beliefs worldwide. How we ever bridge this immense chasm is certainly unknown to me.

For example, here is a perfect example of gaslighting (or possibly being gaslit):

It isn't a Ukrainian war. Russia invaded Ukraine and Ukraine is fighting to maintain their sovereignty. If Ukraine stops fighting, they lose their independence. If Russia stops fighting, the killing stops, the war ends. This is a Russan war IN Ukraine. What TYT and others are really against is the US aiding Ukraine in defending itself.

I'm fairly certainly all ordinary citizens are antiwar. What kind person really wants a war? Almost nobody. Although certainly corrupt governments like the US, China, Russia, hired mercenaries, and defense contractors probably love war. But your average American, Ukrainian, or Russian citizen doesn't want war.

It's very difficult to reconcile the concept of MSM media in my head. My guess is that MSM moniker is just a euphemism for media outlets that swing left.

Fortunately for all of us, these legacy media outlets have a bleak future as boomers are expiring.

1. They are referring to outlets on television or"print" media that did not start on the internet who's audience is predominantly people over age 60. I'd say for specifical outlets, all of those you listed as examples qualify as MSM.
2. You're right about Ukraine nomenclature, I was just writing carelessly.

 

[nidnoy]

Watch what they do and not what they say is excellent advice. You will see many people and people acting on behalf of institutions/corporations are hypocrites and it very often does boil down to money as OTH also said, a wise man right there.

The prospect of a large payday or losing money causes many to act in opposition to their values, or is just a revealing of true value, the only real virtue to many is wealth? Interesting. Just think about this. How often do we hear money does not buy happiness and yet how often do we see people living as though it does? Or we hear our children’s education is one of the most important things in society and then we pay teachers a barely living wage and pay entertainers like royalty. I understand there are differences and the hurdles for public education funding, but your pocketbook as an individual shows a lot about what you value, we cannot deny that same truth as a society.

 

[alfresco]

OTH. One of my favorite quotes. True and most often overlooked

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

On the topic of US MSM, I get my news from overseas . . . The Guardian, The Economist, Al Jazeera, etc. I feel it, foreign reporting, is less biased (or a different bias which is refreshing) more world centric . . . we are all in this mess together . . . no man is an island as somebody once said.

The world does not revolve around USA, as much as we would like to believe.

That is political as I am getting.

 

[K1]

I've always loved these 'hot takes' for the past 30+ years - "Well yeah the govt is bad and do bad things...But that doesn't mean we shouldn't trust them!" and "Don't debate with anyone questioning the govt because it's the same as debating flat earthers!".

Over 30yrs later and where are we as a society...We don't even know what a woman is anymore and men can have babies?! Fucking nonsense!

Now that everyone is done padding their egos with reactions from their buddies, this thread can be closed because we all knew where it was going from the onset.