Farxiga vs. Jardiance- kidneys, heart, BG

[marssel]

a healthy heart is usually between 55 and 65% EF
i didnt lose any weight or atleast not much. I guess medication plays a role in recovery of the EF and also the absence of the factor that caused it + time.
@Zamun : no, never tried bolde. Ive tried Test, Primo, Mast, NPP, Trest, Tren. My body tolerates Test, Primo and Tren the best

Thanks for explaining and being cool about it. So do you have a goal, or can you get all 55% back?

 

[Reno911]

Smart, you think it’s better than the whole blnattokibse, PQQ, curcumein, NAC, COQ-10 TUDACA mix bc it’s pharma or you doing all the other and wanna add it? Do you know how it protects kidneys or is it from its affect on BP that it works?

My current regimen already includes inj NAD, curcumin, NAC, Ubiquinol, TUDCA, and a host of other support supps. Currently using Telmisartan, Ezetimibe, Cialis 5mg daily, and 5mg Crestor 2x a week. At 50, just trying to be as safe as I can be using super supps.

Here's a vid that explains mechanisms of action:

 

[Golden]

Some might say not optimal but for me, i am very happy where i stand.
last echo and bloodwork were the best since May 2020 (when the non compaction cardiomyopathy was found) although i was on full blast which is more or less the first time ive tried to blast since may 2020.
My ejection fraction was around 40% again, mitral insufficiency has improved by a good margin and all the other heart valves also improved.
I could reduce my diuretics by 7,5mg torasemide and drop hctz completely
blood work my HCT/HB/RBC was the lowest since May 2020 although at the time of testing i was running 600mg primo / 700mg test / 70mg tren.
NT-ProBNP was the lowest since May 2020 (less than 500, there were times it was 2000+)
My cardiovascular endurance is great and i can weightlift without issues (apart from my right elbow and left knee but this is another story)
The only issue is the host of medications i take (high dose nebivolol, entresto, torasemide, eplerenone, jardiance) but if i can do what i love to do i am fine with that.

some might say i am an idiot for blasting again with my genetic condition but i love the sport and everything that has to do it.
I experimented the last 2 and a half years with different steroids to see what my body can handle and what not.
As long as i dont run npp/deca over 100mg or trest or dbol/adrol and keep water retention somewhat low i am fine.
I also feel like my lifestyle change from more or less sedentary to 10000 daily steps+ (most of the time 13k+ which takes some long walks if you have an office job) and keeping diet clean helps immensly

Have u had any further scans since running that 600/700/70 course?

Interested to see if that has any effect on EF

 

[M@NU]

Have u had any further scans since running that 600/700/70 course?

Interested to see if that has any effect on EF

i was at the end of that blast when i had the echo and my bloodwork.
Ive ran that cycle for 14 weeks, then got the tests done (to be honest, i did not plan to get an appointment for echo and bloods at that time; i talked to my doc because i needed new receipts for my medication and he was like "oh, your last echo and bloodwork is over 6 months ago, lets check for an appointment". i was like "oh please, not now"..)
Thats why i was more than surprised to see that he was happy with my results, even said "whatever you do, continue with that" and i thought to myself.. "not sure if you really want that"... xD

or do you mean a new one to see if its even higher now?
my next appointment is beginning of december, we usually do 3 echos a year now (in 2020-2022 we did 6, but this seemed excessive after is stabilised).

 

[Golden]

i was at the end of that blast when i had the echo and my bloodwork.
Ive ran that cycle for 14 weeks, then got the tests done (to be honest, i did not plan to get an appointment for echo and bloods at that time; i talked to my doc because i needed new receipts for my medication and he was like "oh, your last echo and bloodwork is over 6 months ago, lets check for an appointment". i was like "oh please, not now"..)
Thats why i was more than surprised to see that he was happy with my results, even said "whatever you do, continue with that" and i thought to myself.. "not sure if you really want that"... xD

or do you mean a new one to see if its even higher now?
my next appointment is beginning of december, we usually do 3 echos a year now (in 2020-2022 we did 6, but this seemed excessive after is stabilised).

No. I meant after running the cycle. That’s good news

 

[Golden]

i was at the end of that blast when i had the echo and my bloodwork.
Ive ran that cycle for 14 weeks, then got the tests done (to be honest, i did not plan to get an appointment for echo and bloods at that time; i talked to my doc because i needed new receipts for my medication and he was like "oh, your last echo and bloodwork is over 6 months ago, lets check for an appointment". i was like "oh please, not now"..)
Thats why i was more than surprised to see that he was happy with my results, even said "whatever you do, continue with that" and i thought to myself.. "not sure if you really want that"... xD

or do you mean a new one to see if its even higher now?
my next appointment is beginning of december, we usually do 3 echos a year now (in 2020-2022 we did 6, but this seemed excessive after is stabilised).

Is that the first blast you’ve done since your first diagnosis?

 

[nothuman]

Hi there,
im on Jardiance since 2021. i am doc prescribed it due to the positive effects on reduced EF and heart failure patients
Im taking 25mg daily and also experimented with 37,5mg daily.
no sides at all.
i still get pumps in the gym, on 37,5mg ive felt a lil bit flatter and decreased pumps even on 400g carbs so ive decreased again.
i think the main concern with jardiance is urine tract infections due to the glucose output and the fact that bacterias love sugar and a warmer environment i guess.
But in my opinion, this concern is more or less only relevant for the sedentary population that showers once a week and not for us active guys that usually shower daily or even twice daily

Interesting you used that high of a dose since I know they haven't conducted any studies at a dose higher than 25mg.

I managed to convince my cardiologist to get a prescription for 10mg because I told him I was taking it anyway so he agreed to let me take it the legal way

 

[nothuman]

you only feel reduced EF if its severe.
below 20% i had issues with water in lungs, oxygen saturation and daily doings like walking, cleaning up, going shopping were tough.
i would say between 20% and 40% you feel it when doing cardio or training.
Above that and you will barely feel it. I am at 40% now (last measurement) and for me i feel it mainly after hard sessions that i am done for the day and have no energy for anything else.
thats my experience

I'm happy to hear about your improvement! Continue to post updates because it is interesting and also inspiring.

 

[nothuman]

For those who have researched or used the 2 below. Any thoughts? Any issues with the body pushing out the glucose as far as training, pumps, etc?


First, the Food and Drug Administration approved the SGLT2 inhibitor Farxiga® (dapagliflozin), followed by Jardiance® (empagliflozin), to reduce the risk of death and hospitalization in people who have heart failure with reduced ejection fraction.

Farxiga
Treats symptomatic chronic heart failure
Treats chronic kidney disease
Can lower blood sugar levels in people with Type 2 diabetes
FDA-approved heart failure benefit: reduces risk of hospitalization from heart failure
Evidence of kidney benefit

Jardiance
Treats symptomatic chronic heart failure
Can lower blood sugar levels in people with Type 2 diabetes
FDA-approved cardiovascular benefit: reduces risk of cardiovascular death
Evidence for heart failure benefit: reduces risk of hospitalization from heart failure
Evidence of kidney benefit

Without doing a full deep dive into it, I'd guess both have very similar benefits. Basically all the SGLT2 inhibitors should be somewhat similar.

 

[M@NU]

Is that the first blast you’ve done since your first diagnosis?

it was my first blast at over 1g.
Some wont understand it but i love the sport and I also love to "experiment" a bit and see what effect different stuff has.
in 2020, I was almost consistently on TRT with small courses of TRT+ (e.g. 200mg test 100mg primo)
in 2021, I introduced hgh again (only pharma) at 2-3iu and 2 blasts but i was carefully regarding dosages.
First was 400test 300primo and the second was 300mg test, NPP and 300mg Primo. During the second blast i noticed i cant run NPP higher than 20mg/ed, else my heart rate jumped by up to 10 points and i got palpitations.
in 2022, i increased my hgh to 6iu. 2 blasts, similar to 2021, but in the second blast i used tren the first time ever. used up to 20mg/ed tren ace.
in 2023, i had that one blast i mentioned above with was 18 weeks in total

@nothuman thanks for chiming in, love reading your posts. We both are somewhat similar, both have/had issues and it seems we both experimented with different stuff (you were maybe a bit more "moderate" in your experiments )
Jardiance for me is a top-notch supplement. For me, it felt like it increaed my endurance.

i might have to add, in 2022 and 2023 i did some long and high dosed courses of BPC and TB500 after reading their positive effects on heart remodeling etc. (esp. TB500)
this might also lead to an improvement of my condition.
another edit: since january 2023, i also run injectable l-carnitine "high dosed" (around 1g daily) and inj L-Glutatione. I feel the effects of L-Carnitine on endurance and L-Glut seems to keep sickness away from me

 

[Reno911]

Without doing a full deep dive into it, I'd guess both have very similar benefits. Basically all the SGLT2 inhibitors should be somewhat similar.

Any effect on your pump in the gym or ability to put on size? Have you tracked your GFR since you've been taking it. Did you have increased urine frequency?

 

[nothuman]

Any effect on your pump in the gym or ability to put on size? Have you tracked your GFR since you've been taking it. Did you have increased urine frequency?

No effect on pumps or muscle size at all. Zero. Maybe if you push the dose high like Menu did, but not at 10-12.5mg. Id I throw in a little juice, my size and strength still increases dramatically.

my eGFR has noticeably improved on it compared to before without it. So now I usually see high 80s to 90 and my Cystatin C was at the very low end of the lab range when I had it tested so I am quite happy my kidneys are not something I need to worry about.

As for urine frequency, idk. I always have been peeing a lot give the amount of liquid I drink from water or fruit smoothies. It's recommended to take with the first meal to avoid possible night time peeing but I don't think I can tell a difference.

 

[nothuman]

it was my first blast at over 1g.
Some wont understand it but i love the sport and I also love to "experiment" a bit and see what effect different stuff has.
in 2020, I was almost consistently on TRT with small courses of TRT+ (e.g. 200mg test 100mg primo)
in 2021, I introduced hgh again (only pharma) at 2-3iu and 2 blasts but i was carefully regarding dosages.
First was 400test 300primo and the second was 300mg test, NPP and 300mg Primo. During the second blast i noticed i cant run NPP higher than 20mg/ed, else my heart rate jumped by up to 10 points and i got palpitations.
in 2022, i increased my hgh to 6iu. 2 blasts, similar to 2021, but in the second blast i used tren the first time ever. used up to 20mg/ed tren ace.
in 2023, i had that one blast i mentioned above with was 18 weeks in total

@nothuman thanks for chiming in, love reading your posts. We both are somewhat similar, both have/had issues and it seems we both experimented with different stuff (you were maybe a bit more "moderate" in your experiments )
Jardiance for me is a top-notch supplement. For me, it felt like it increaed my endurance.

i might have to add, in 2022 and 2023 i did some long and high dosed courses of BPC and TB500 after reading their positive effects on heart remodeling etc. (esp. TB500)
this might also lead to an improvement of my condition.
another edit: since january 2023, i also run injectable l-carnitine "high dosed" (around 1g daily) and inj L-Glutatione. I feel the effects of L-Carnitine on endurance and L-Glut seems to keep sickness away from me

Jardiance/Empagliflozin really first caught my attention when there was some preliminary evidence it could help with diastolic heart failure (heart failure without reduced ejection fraction) since there aren't any other drugs that have shown to help with that problem. There are for systolic HF but not diastolic. I am fortunate enough to have an EF of 60-65% but my diastolic is the one I have to watch out for since I have a mild-moderate aortic valve leak. I jumped on it all the way back in 2018 I want to say but then stopped after a year because I read it could raise hemoglobin and mine was high.

Then I realized high hemoglobin isn't that big of a deal as long as platelets are normal and I am negative for clotting tests, so I went back on it in 2021 after even more evidence came to light confirming it's benefits.

I am pleased to know i was ahead of the game when it came to this drug, given my unique personal interest in what it could potentially help with.

 

[warlock]

Jardiance/Empagliflozin really first caught my attention when there was some preliminary evidence it could help with diastolic heart failure (heart failure without reduced ejection fraction) since there aren't any other drugs that have shown to help with that problem. There are for systolic HF but not diastolic. I am fortunate enough to have an EF of 60-65% but my diastolic is the one I have to watch out for since I have a mild-moderate aortic valve leak. I jumped on it all the way back in 2018 I want to say but then stopped after a year because I read it could raise hemoglobin and mine was high.

Then I realized high hemoglobin isn't that big of a deal as long as platelets are normal and I am negative for clotting tests, so I went back on it in 2021 after even more evidence came to light confirming it's benefits.

I am pleased to know i was ahead of the game when it came to this drug, given my unique personal interest in what it could potentially help with.

So, essentially anyone could benefit from this med for prevention even if you don't have any heart or kidney problems?

Do you know how much it lowers blood sugar?

 

[nothuman]

So, essentially anyone could benefit from this med for prevention even if you don't have any heart or kidney problems?

Do you know how much it lowers blood sugar?

I absolutely believe that, yes.

Hard to pinpoint how much exactly but it does help lower it. After all, that's what the drug is prescribed for.

 

[KingOfSushi]

@aHarness @nothuman @M@NU where are you guys keeping fluid and sodium intake on Jardiance to prevent flatness? Planning on adding it here

 

[M@NU]

@aHarness @nothuman @M@NU where are you guys keeping fluid and sodium intake on Jardiance to prevent flatness? Planning on adding it here

in my case, i have not increased sodium when ive added in jardiance.
But i always drank alot and used pink himalaya salt quite a bit. (although docs told me to reduce water to 2l and 1-1,5g sodium due to my heart condition but this would have killed me, i am sure)
what you want to look for is carbs. You might need some additional carbs if you take the 25mg dose.
with 10mg, you dont need to change anything ime

 

[nothuman]

@aHarness @nothuman @M@NU where are you guys keeping fluid and sodium intake on Jardiance to prevent flatness? Planning on adding it here

Nothing. There's no flatness.

 

[aHarness]

@aHarness @nothuman @M@NU where are you guys keeping fluid and sodium intake on Jardiance to prevent flatness? Planning on adding it here

Agree with the other two. I just salt to taste and drink plenty (6L+) and seem to be fine.

@nothuman @M@NU, on the topic of this… I saw some cool studies showing Jardiance helped reduce hyperkalemia without inducing hypokalemia. Just another benefit for those of us also on an ARB.

 

[aHarness]

(although docs told me to reduce water to 2l and 1-1,5g sodium due to my heart condition but this would have killed me, i am sure)

Dude what the fuck? Why on earth are they recommending that?