First Cycle Critique

[w4lly]

Being a Newbie sucks. Its my first post so go easy on me, I have tried to do my homework reading a lot on here and other stuff including Mick Harts Layman’s guide.

I ordered my first cycle a few weeks ago and I would greatly appreciate some critique before I get started.

My goals are steady, quality gains with minimum sides.
I’d be very pleased with 5lbs of quality muscle.

Stats
Age 32
Weight 194lbs
Body Fat 12%
Height 5.9

Training five years but only the last 2+ years hard.


My previous experience is using a PH for one cycle.
I ran one four week cycle of Epistane that finished three months ago.
I had good strength gains but hardly anything else other than knee pains and loss of libido towards the end which sucked a bit. From doing a bit of digging around I believe the Joint pain a low libido was caused low oestrogen.
I used the usual recommended supps for an oral – milk thistle, Flax oils ext. I also used Toremifene for PCT.

With my goal in mind of steady, good quality gains I ordered Oral Turinabol from a board sponsor.

I want to try an oral only cycle first. I know I might get flamed for this but my thoughts on this are,
I want to build up a bit of experience using a single compound before moving on to a cycle with a test base + ext.

I plan to run the OT with the usual ancillary’s, milk thistle, flax seed oil ext. consuming a 3500+ cal a day.

Dosage as below

Week 1 OT @ 30 30 40 40 40 50 60
Week 2-5 OT @ 60 60 60 60 60 60 60
Week 6 OT @ 50 40 30 30 30 30 30

For PCT I already have both Nolva and Clomid on hand.
I’m not certain which is the better option but I’m leaning toward Nolva?

As below

Week 7 @ 40 40 40 40 20 20 20
Week 8 @ 20 20 20 20 20 20 20
Week 9 @ 20 20 20 20 20 20 20

Is my PCT too short or even under dosed? This for me seems the hardest thing to judge. From what I’ve read OT isn’t overly suppressive or am I wrong?

How does my cycle look? All feed back welcome.

Thanks

 

[oldfella]

OK, Here's why oral only cycles are IMO not a good idea. Since orals are going to shut you down anyway where is your test going to come from?? Test is what builds quality muscle and maintains our masculinity. so for a single compound test is ideal as a first cycle. SO I am not crazy about your first cycle choice, but this is only my opinion. Some guys love oral only cycles, me I'm just not a big fan!! Test only for a good intro to the dark world!! Then you run your pct.

 

[w4lly]

oldfella

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate your advice.

So I’m looking at saving the OT I’ve ordered for another day. Before I go away to work out a test based cycle. Do you have any advice on the following?

Acne, in my late teens and early 20's I had some issues. My skin is great now and I obviously want to avoid a massive breakout. Because I was susceptible to acne in my youth, would you expect that I could have issues with during a test cycle?
And of the versions of test available, do any come with a lesser associated risk of acne?

Bloat, I’ve read a few times that Nolva should be used during a test cycle to prevent water retention and other sides because of the easy aromatisation? Do you recommend using Nolva on cycle? I may need more Nolva if this is the case.

Thanks again.

 

[pesty4077]

oldfella

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate your advice.

So I’m looking at saving the OT I’ve ordered for another day. Before I go away to work out a test based cycle. Do you have any advice on the following?

Acne, in my late teens and early 20's I had some issues. My skin is great now and I obviously want to avoid a massive breakout. Because I was susceptible to acne in my youth, would you expect that I could have issues with during a test cycle?
And of the versions of test available, do any come with a lesser associated risk of acne?

Bloat, I’ve read a few times that Nolva should be used during a test cycle to prevent excessive water retention because of the easy aromatisation? Do you recommend using Nolva on cycle? I may need more Nolva if this is the case.

Thanks again.

Do a 6 week cycle to me is not long enough. You need to know the difference between gear, study more. Better cloices than novadex. Liquidstane will take away water and estrogen. Take during your cycle 2.5mg (split in 2 dosges) morning and night. Take clomid and novadex at the end of cycle 3 weeks. Look at Mike Hart's beginner cycle, using dbol, test and deca. You can cut down dosages if you like.

 

[cpesloco]

I break out worse on D-bol than any injections to date.

only mentioned cause you said you had acne problems as a teen.

 

[w4lly]

Thanks for the post Pesty.
Did you mean an oral 6 week cycle is too short?

I used the layman’s guide to come up with my oral cycle.
I’m defiantly only using a single compound for my first cycle. After oldfella’s advice I'm considering Test Cypionate or Enanthate.
I’ve never heard of Liquidstane. Is it a SERM or an AI. Google doesn’t come up with much on it either.

It seems the length of an oral cycle is as disputed as an oral only cycle in the first place. Nelson Montana says three weeks whilst Mick Hart strongly recommends 6 weeks max for dbol. He also recommends Nolva EOD on cycle and optionally Proviron on alternate days.
I understand of the possible sides due to aromatisation, bloat, gyno ext. As I have both Nolva and Clomid on hand and no pre-existing gyno my main side concern is Acne.
I hated having spots as a teen. Man that really sucked.
This was the main reasons for my original thoughts on using oral Turinabol.
All the information I have read describes OT as Dianabol with a 4-chloro alteration, preventing aromatisation. Also OT is described as less androgenic, again less sides like acne but on the down side less gains. I assumed I wouldn’t need to run a SERM or an AI on cycle using OT.

 

[w4lly]

I break out worse on D-bol than any injections to date.

only mentioned cause you said you had acne problems as a teen.

Noted.... big thanks for that. What's has been your most favourable (break out free)
Injectable ?

 

[TLTL]

There is oral/sublingual test if ur afraid of pins.If not id say go for injectible test.

 

[oldfella]

I perfer cypionate. I have known guys to break out badly on enanthate. But it becomes an idividual thing as everyone reacts differently to gear. Just because you had acne as a youngster does not mean acne will return with aas use. Some guys actually clear up a bit while on cycle. You can use some arimidex for anti-e but Just keep your pct on hand for the end of your cycle. Try an 8 week cycle test only to see how you go, keep the dose low, no need to overdo it. Have a read of some first cycles and then get back to us with your proposed first cycle. I can not/am not permitted to tell you how much. Have a think and do some reading!!!

 

[youngmuscle]

i dont like that pct at all. nolvadex is thought to be good for pct because it helps bring back up lh...but if you look at the science, lh really doesnt need any help gettign back up after a cycle. THAT IS NOT TO SAY that nolvadex isnt good during pct, but before you use it, youll need to get your testes running properly...or else all the nolvadex in the world isnt going to help you retain muscle... do do this you need to use HCG.

 

[pesty4077]

Thanks for the post Pesty.
Did you mean an oral 6 week cycle is too short?

I used the layman’s guide to come up with my oral cycle.
I’m defiantly only using a single compound for my first cycle. After oldfella’s advice I'm considering Test Cypionate or Enanthate.
I’ve never heard of Liquidstane. Is it a SERM or an AI. Google doesn’t come up with much on it either.

It seems the length of an oral cycle is as disputed as an oral only cycle in the first place. Nelson Montana says three weeks whilst Mick Hart strongly recommends 6 weeks max for dbol. He also recommends Nolva EOD on cycle and optionally Proviron on alternate days.
I understand of the possible sides due to aromatisation, bloat, gyno ext. As I have both Nolva and Clomid on hand and no pre-existing gyno my main side concern is Acne.
I hated having spots as a teen. Man that really sucked.
This was the main reasons for my original thoughts on using oral Turinabol.
All the information I have read describes OT as Dianabol with a 4-chloro alteration, preventing aromatisation. Also OT is described as less androgenic, again less sides like acne but on the down side less gains. I assumed I wouldn’t need to run a SERM or an AI on cycle using OT.

I don't know too many teens that didn't get acne.( I have a 13 and 16 year old) Inj. are less toxic on liver(goes through blood steam) Mike Hart has a good cycle using EQ., TEST, Dball. And yes I wouldn't take dball for more than 6 weeks. You will find Liquidstane on some reseach companies websites, you can pm me( similar to arimidex) longer acting. Novadex will not take away estrogen, just supress it. Liqidstane or arimidex also takes away water weight.

 

[inky-e]

personally i like cip,the acne is probably caused by the fact that test causes oily skin.I get the oily skin mostly on my face,so i wash it frequently throughout the day.neutragena makes a wash for it.

 

[w4lly]

I perfer cypionate. I have known guys to break out badly on enanthate. But it becomes an idividual thing as everyone reacts differently to gear. Just because you had acne as a youngster does not mean acne will return with aas use. Some guys actually clear up a bit while on cycle. You can use some arimidex for anti-e but Just keep your pct on hand for the end of your cycle. Try an 8 week cycle test only to see how you go, keep the dose low, no need to overdo it. Have a read of some first cycles and then get back to us with your proposed first cycle. I can not/am not permitted to tell you how much. Have a think and do some reading!!!

Thanks to Oldfella and everyone for their advice.
This forum is kin awsome.

I’ve ordered test-cyp from a board sponsor

My new proposed cycle looks like this.

Test-cyp @ 250mg once weekly for 8 weeks
Armidex 1/4 tab EOD from week 2 – 8

PCT
HGC 1,000 IUs M/W/F Week 10 -12
Nolva @ 20 mg ED week 10 – 13

i've delayed PCT until two weeks from the day of my last test-c injection due to the clearance time, is this correct?

In the mean time I’ve just received my tbol. It’s so tempting to start that cycle but... it will wait. I will probably use tbol next time with a test-c base if my experience with test-c is a good one

Any thoughts on the new cycle?

W4lly

 

[w4lly]

i dont like that pct at all. nolvadex is thought to be good for pct because it helps bring back up lh...but if you look at the science, lh really doesnt need any help gettign back up after a cycle. THAT IS NOT TO SAY that nolvadex isnt good during pct, but before you use it, youll need to get your testes running properly...or else all the nolvadex in the world isnt going to help you retain muscle... do do this you need to use HCG.

Thanks for the info. I didn’t consider HGC originally as I wasn’t intending on using pins. I've done some research =and read a ton of differing opinions on the dose and use of HGC. Many people recommend using HGC on cycle. I've decided not to use on cycle as my cycle is fairly short. My thoughts are that testicular atrophy should be too severe during a short cycle and the use of HGC should be ok just for PCT. Does this fit with your experience? Is my dose to low for PCT? I’ve seen some examples in the 5000IU’s