First two cycles for a newbie... all feedback welcome!!!

[OhioMuscle80]

Thanks for reading!

I'm a newbie to AAS and will be starting my first cycle soon. For now I am sticking with oral agents (for various reasons), which is why there's no deca or test in my cycles.

I've read a lot of sources and have put together what I think would be very effective, safe, relatively economic, and ability to retain most of the gains post-AAS when I go natural again.

First, let me say that I am separating all AAS usage by at least 6-8 weeks, so these cycles are not going to be performed back-to-back. More likely is 4-5 cycles per year.

Second, because the orals stress the liver, the cycles are limited to 7 weeks and I will be taking a liver supplement.

Here we go... any feedback at all would be greatly appreciated!

Cycle 1
-------
Weeks 1-7
Dianabol 50mg daily
Winstrol tabs 100mg daily
Nolvadex 10mg daily
NO TAPERING OFF THE AAS
HPTA Recovery (Weeks 8-12)
Weeks 8-10: Nolvadex 20mg daily
Week 8 Day 1: Clomid 300mg, Rest of Week 8 Clomid 200mg daily
Weeks 9, 10: Clomid 150mg daily
Weeks 11, 12: Clomid 100mg daily


Cycle 2
-------
Weeks 1-7
Dianabol 50mg daily
Anadrol 100mg daily
Clenbuterol 120mcg daily
Nolvadex 20mg daily
NO TAPERING OFF THE AAS
HPTA Recovery (Weeks 8-12)
Weeks 8-12: Nolvadex 30mg daily
Week 8 Day 1: Clomid 300mg, Rest of Week 8 Clomid 200mg daily
Weeks 9, 10: Clomid 150mg daily
Weeks 11, 12: Clomid 100mg daily

The purpose of the Winstrol in cycle 1 is to help minimize the "muscle smoothness" caused by D-Bol. Clenbuterol serves the same purpose in cycle 2. Notice the increase in length and dosage of Nolvadex usage in cycle 2 due to the use of two aromatizing agents.

Yes, I know that HCG would be great in the HPTA but I can't afford it now and I don't want to mess with injectables at the present. Also I'm lucky that hair loss doesn't run in my family, so I don't need to worry about that.

Thanks!

 

[notsobig32]

OK,

first, there is a little thread in here that is titled something like what to post if you want a cycle critique. So that being said, what are your stats, lifting experience, training split, diet etc?

Also, in that cycle i don't reccommend running wholly oral cycles and your doseages seem pretty high to me for your first cycle. I personally believe the winstrol and anadrol are completely over the top. Personally that amount of orals would make me feel so tired, bloated and generally crappy that it wouldn't even be worth running because i would not be getting good workouts and my nutrition would be messed up.

If i were going to take my first cycle all over, I would probably take 250-500mg of a long acting test(cyp or enan) every week and do just that. The gains would be much better(quality wise) and you wouldn't be beating up on your body quite as hard!

Now i am not reccommending that you take anything, this is just what i would do. Good luck and be safe.

 

[6.8SPC]

Rather than beating your liver up, why not just get over your fear of needles.

 

[pesty4077]

Thanks for reading!

I'm a newbie to AAS and will be starting my first cycle soon. For now I am sticking with oral agents (for various reasons), which is why there's no deca or test in my cycles.

I've read a lot of sources and have put together what I think would be very effective, safe, relatively economic, and ability to retain most of the gains post-AAS when I go natural again.

First, let me say that I am separating all AAS usage by at least 6-8 weeks, so these cycles are not going to be performed back-to-back. More likely is 4-5 cycles per year.

Second, because the orals stress the liver, the cycles are limited to 7 weeks and I will be taking a liver supplement.

Here we go... any feedback at all would be greatly appreciated!

Cycle 1
-------
Weeks 1-7
Dianabol 50mg daily
Winstrol tabs 100mg daily
Nolvadex 10mg daily
NO TAPERING OFF THE AAS
HPTA Recovery (Weeks 8-12)
Weeks 8-10: Nolvadex 20mg daily
Week 8 Day 1: Clomid 300mg, Rest of Week 8 Clomid 200mg daily
Weeks 9, 10: Clomid 150mg daily
Weeks 11, 12: Clomid 100mg daily


Cycle 2
-------
Weeks 1-7
Dianabol 50mg daily
Anadrol 100mg daily
Clenbuterol 120mcg daily
Nolvadex 20mg daily
NO TAPERING OFF THE AAS
HPTA Recovery (Weeks 8-12)
Weeks 8-12: Nolvadex 30mg daily
Week 8 Day 1: Clomid 300mg, Rest of Week 8 Clomid 200mg daily
Weeks 9, 10: Clomid 150mg daily
Weeks 11, 12: Clomid 100mg daily

The purpose of the Winstrol in cycle 1 is to help minimize the "muscle smoothness" caused by D-Bol. Clenbuterol serves the same purpose in cycle 2. Notice the increase in length and dosage of Nolvadex usage in cycle 2 due to the use of two aromatizing agents.

Yes, I know that HCG would be great in the HPTA but I can't afford it now and I don't want to mess with injectables at the present. Also I'm lucky that hair loss doesn't run in my family, so I don't need to worry about that.

Thanks!

Advice? Don't do any cycles, these are horrible. You need to educate yourself more, first.

 

[OhioMuscle80]

thanks for the replies!

It's not really for a fear of needles that I don't want to take injectables. The main reason is safety, plus I don't even know where to get the supplies.

I know there are online "sterile" syringe and needle sources, but I have a hard time *completely* trusting that "sterile" part. One mistake and who knows what disease(s) I could get. If I could purchase known legitimate syringes and needles from a local pharmacy or hospital then I'd feel much safer about it and would go for a test-based cycle and likely experiment with EQ et. al. How do you guys get the supplies to use such AAS (in a general sense, so as not to be banned from the site ?

But, as it is, I already have the above agents, and so I need to use them somehow effectively. So about the dosages, should I decrease the Winstrol and Anadrol by 50mg each?

I haven't really looked into the energy side effects of AAS, but it was my understanding that AAS in general, especially Anadrol, cause aggressiveness and irritability. Is this incorrect? Or is it the Nolvadex you're referring to that would make you feel like crap? I planned to take it all at bedtime as I know it causes drowsiness, so does it cause next-day drowsiness too?

Thanks!

 

[BigDM]

Bro, not a good 1st cycle. Oral only??? Please educate yourself more and get over the fear of pinning. Your liver will thank you later. Here's good basic 1st timer cycle:

Wk 1-10 Test E @ 500mg/wk
Wk 1-15 Nolva @ 20mg/ed
Wk 13-15 Clomid
day 1 300mg
day 2-14 100mg/ed
day 15-21 50mg/ed

Basic, heavy compound movements (SQUAT, bench, deads, mil press, etc), 4-5k cals day, 500g protein, low-med carb. You will GROW! Good luck

 

[pesty4077]

It's not really for a fear of needles that I don't want to take injectables. The main reason is safety, plus I don't even know where to get the supplies.

I know there are online "sterile" syringe and needle sources, but I have a hard time *completely* trusting that "sterile" part. One mistake and who knows what disease(s) I could get. If I could purchase known legitimate syringes and needles from a local pharmacy or hospital then I'd feel much safer about it and would go for a test-based cycle and likely experiment with EQ et. al. How do you guys get the supplies to use such AAS (in a general sense, so as not to be banned from the site ?

But, as it is, I already have the above agents, and so I need to use them somehow effectively. So about the dosages, should I decrease the Winstrol and Anadrol by 50mg each?

I haven't really looked into the energy side effects of AAS, but it was my understanding that AAS in general, especially Anadrol, cause aggressiveness and irritability. Is this incorrect? Or is it the Nolvadex you're referring to that would make you feel like crap? I planned to take it all at bedtime as I know it causes drowsiness, so does it cause next-day drowsiness too?

Thanks!

Did you get the winstrol or dball from a local hospital or pharmacy? The answer is no. Sterilesyringes.com is a reputable company. That amount for a first cycle is ridiculous for orals. Post your stats, years of training and your Diet, that is more important than taking AAS.

 

[OhioMuscle80]

stats etc

Well, I am far from a pro like most of you guys. My look is more like a "GQ model" physique.

I am 5'7", weigh 165 pounds, squat about 400, deadlift about 500, bench press about 275.

I am 28 years old and have been working out with weights since I was 16. My training style is very similar to Max-OT. Maximum overload in minimum time... has worked very well for me over the past few years. Though during cycles I plan to increase the workload due to enhanced recovery.

Do you have any dosage adjustment suggestions? I can't just let hundreds of dollars of AAS go to waste.

Thanks!

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Well, I am far from a pro like most of you guys. My look is more like a "GQ model" physique.

I am 5'7", weigh 165 pounds, squat about 400, deadlift about 500, bench press about 275.

I am 28 years old and have been working out with weights since I was 16. My training style is very similar to Max-OT. Maximum overload in minimum time... has worked very well for me over the past few years. Though during cycles I plan to increase the workload due to enhanced recovery.

Do you have any dosage adjustment suggestions? I can't just let hundreds of dollars of AAS go to waste.

Thanks!

Ohiomuscle, it hasn't worked very well if you only weight 165 lbs. Although your lifts are impressive. But let me tell you something about your cycles. They are just wrong. Spend more time reading this site and then come up with something else. You are going to shut down hard and you will have no testosterone in your body at all. That's not healthy for males. You need to eat more (and probably smarter) but you're going to do what you want anyway. Why take a combination of drugs on your first cycle? How will you know what did what?

 

[mrsoul]

if you have researched as much as you said you would be aware of the dangers involving your proposed cycles. first of all, in your first cycle the d bol and winny will shut down your naturall test levels quickly. side effects of this will include impotance, fatique and depression just to name a few. now for the dangers to your liver. both dbol and winny are 17aa which means your liver will be stressed and toxic. orals are not reccomended for a first cycle and they are certainly not suggested to use alone and especially should not use more than one at a time. not to mention you would grow more, feel better, and hold you gains more easily from a test only cycle. test makes you feel great, anadrol makes me feel like committing suicide and did not see any better gains from the anadrol than i did from anavar. and why on earth would you think clenbuterol would keep you from looking smooth? this is a potent fat burner that works only when your diet is very clean. when you order syringes from sterile syringes or anywhere else they come packaged in individual sterile wrappers. this fear you have is nonsense. i would get rid of all the orals, buy some test enanthate and run 250 milligrams a week for 12 weeks with pct after. you would do much better this way.

 

[tkav1980]

Well, I am far from a pro like most of you guys. My look is more like a "GQ model" physique.

I am 5'7", weigh 165 pounds, squat about 400, deadlift about 500, bench press about 275.

I am 28 years old and have been working out with weights since I was 16. My training style is very similar to Max-OT. Maximum overload in minimum time... has worked very well for me over the past few years. Though during cycles I plan to increase the workload due to enhanced recovery.

Do you have any dosage adjustment suggestions? I can't just let hundreds of dollars of AAS go to waste.

Thanks!

you dont have to let them go to waste. theyre not milk and will be fine once you have this all figured out.think about them as an investment, but to get the return on your investment theres a bunch of stuff you have to do first.

heres my advice. go over to intensemuscle.com
a search button isnt needed there because someone took theyre time to put everything you need to know in stickies at the top of the page.
read all about dc training. including the diet, and a section called cycle for pennies.
put that to work for the next year, and keep us updated on the progress your making.

after a year propose a new cycle and we wil re evaluate .

 

[Chrysler]

FEEDBACK: 1) Those are the worst cycles I have ever seen in my life. 2) You are going to feel like shit with no test, and quite possibly be impotent from it. Your penis will be a worthless flop of skin. 3) The excuse of sterility. Give me a break you probably don't even buy that one yourself, let alone be able to sell us on it.

Seriously, man up. This isn't meant as a flame, but brutal honesty to perhaps help you see the light, and to hopefully save you from what will be a guaranteed unpleasant experience...guaranteed.

 

[alecaf]

Ohiomuscle, it hasn't worked very well if you only weight 165 lbs. Although your lifts are impressive. But let me tell you something about your cycles. They are just wrong. Spend more time reading this site and then come up with something else. You are going to shut down hard and you will have no testosterone in your body at all. That's not healthy for males. You need to eat more (and probably smarter) but you're going to do what you want anyway. Why take a combination of drugs on your first cycle? How will you know what did what?

HEy OTH, in real life i bench 300 x10 on the web i can bench over 700 x20

 

[AN3M4L]

Do yourself a favor and take the advice of these people please. And if you were to notice no one ever has on any thread recommended an oral only cycle. Reason its stupid. So don't fuck yourself in the ass and think about doing a minimum test cycle.

 

[Chrysler]

HEy OTH, in real life i bench 300 x10 on the web i can bench over 700 x20

That's all?! Nothing is more powerful than the almighty e-peen.

 

[Steve123]

It's not really for a fear of needles that I don't want to take injectables. The main reason is safety, plus I don't even know where to get the supplies.

I know there are online "sterile" syringe and needle sources, but I have a hard time *completely* trusting that "sterile" part. One mistake and who knows what disease(s) I could get. If I could purchase known legitimate syringes and needles from a local pharmacy or hospital then I'd feel much safer about it and would go for a test-based cycle and likely experiment with EQ et. al. How do you guys get the supplies to use such AAS (in a general sense, so as not to be banned from the site ?

But, as it is, I already have the above agents, and so I need to use them somehow effectively. So about the dosages, should I decrease the Winstrol and Anadrol by 50mg each?

I haven't really looked into the energy side effects of AAS, but it was my understanding that AAS in general, especially Anadrol, cause aggressiveness and irritability. Is this incorrect? Or is it the Nolvadex you're referring to that would make you feel like crap? I planned to take it all at bedtime as I know it causes drowsiness, so does it cause next-day drowsiness too?

Thanks!

Not sure where you live but in most states you can walk right into your local CVS, with an ID, and purchase all the needles you need.

Also, dude, I would trust the Pins from this boards sponsors or a pharmacy long before I would trust most of the orals you can buy these days.

 

[MR. BMJ]

The needles from various online suppliers are STERILE! That is absurd to think otherwise. I've never used the sponsor here at PM, but i'm sure they are top notch for that purpose.

If you want opinions, please listen to all the replies here on the thread.

To note a few:

1. Read and educate yourself more before starting.

2. Online services have STERILE supplies.

3. Your cycle designs are aweful bro, no disrespect, but order the supplies you need to inject your supplements, and go the optimal route.

4. You are gonna inhibit natty test levels, while not adding in an exogenous supply, and I can guarantee you will feel like junk, even though you will have strength and size gains.

5. You will gain muscle, size, and strength on your cycle designs, but as many have stated, you will lose that very quick seeing how you have them set-up. Use test and it will be 100% better.

6. Keep test as a backbone to all your cycles.

7. This should be number 1 or 2, but master your eating and diet, or you will be disappointed with any AAS use.


Man, I can list a ton more, but do yourself a favor....read more, don't do those oral only cycles, get some damn test, and concentrate on your eating and training as the most important constituents of successful gains.

Good luck bro!

BMJ

 

[OhioMuscle80]

Thanks, so no hope at all using just one for a shorter time? Must use now, read on...

Wow, I didn't expect this much response... thanks! This is a great board... though seem do some harsh at times... roid rage? First here is more training and diet background info, as reguested by some members. AAS stuff follows starting in the 5th paragraph.

About my modified version of Max-OT training, I've gained about 10-15 pounds of muscle while dropping the same amount of fat in about 5 years, and this is after ~8 years of consistent training and dieting and being in a ~400-~400-~200 (SQ-DL-BP) non-ripped "rut" for quite some time. Back then I worked out with lighter weights and higher reps until I got into Max-OT. Now I've come close to what I feel is my natural max of 165 ripped, as I am actually a "short '5'7", about 5'6.5". I think I might be able to gain another 10-15 pounds of natural muscle (to put me at 175-180 ripped), but beyond that I think I would lose the ripped look.

And now that I'm getting closer to 30 years old, it's not quite as easy nor as quickly to make gains like I did back in college (well, call that regular college, as I'm now in medical school [where they do not teach much about AAS and especially not the details about 17AA-compound usage in AAS cycles, else I'd know it all lol]). I want to reach my all-time goals of being 185-200 lbs ripped with 600+ Squat, 650+ Deadlift, and 400+ Bench Press sooner than my body is allowing (if it ever would naturally), which is why I'm starting to use some AAS for an extra edge. I'm not looking to get into competing, except maybe for local powerlifting contests because of my high powerlifts-bodyweight ratios. BTW when I started working out I weighed 125 pounds in high school and was fat at about 5'5" so I've come a very far way naturally (I did use some Andro-type supplements for a couple years back in the day when they were legal, so that could be argued I guess)... which is why I'm now dinking with AAS to reach lifetime goals that I set for myself about 5 years ago.

About my diet, as one member had requested... hope he's still reading. I have 5-7 meals per day, depending on the day's schedule. 1-2 is are regular food meals, 3-4 are 40g-280kcal MRPs, and one is a high-protein bar, spaced out every 2-3.5 hours (I prefer less than 3 hours apart but schedules dictate my meals). In total I consume about 1800-1900kcal and 170-180g protein daily (Re: my bodyweight is 165), though I plan to increase my diet by ~500kcal and ~50g protein when on AAS and then adjust back as needed post-cycle. I also take a 2xday multi-vitamin and mineral, extra vitamins B and C, a joint formula, GABA, and creatine and glutamine. I always make sure one of the MRPs and one meal is post-workout immediately (MRP) and within 3 hours (meal).

-----

About the cycles, before I move on to the AAS, I haven't seen any complaints about the HPTA-recovery cycle. I take it that means I've at least designed a decent recovery cycle? I noticed it was similar to the recovery cycle in one member's response. I know it would be much much better with HCG, and I will add that once I'm able to afford to do so. I also realize that Nolvadex is only necessary when using aromatizing agents. Feedback about my HPTA-recovery cycle would be greatly appreciated as well.

Now about the AAS...
I see that everyone agrees about my cycles - and you guys know much more than me about AAS usage - so this is a good indicator to me that the oral AAS as I listed them are too much for too long a time. I'm glad I posted before I started the first cycle! Also since multiple people have talked about the sterile syringes site, it sounds like it's a good operation. I wasn't trying to diss it - though I never mentioned it specifically - it's just that needles are a serious thing and I had safety concerns. Aren't these supplies harder to pass through customs and such than small letter envelopes of pills or vials because of their size? Anyway, now that I know more about that company and based on everyone's feedback, some test-based cycles are in my future.

Regarding the member who mentioned buying needles and syringes at a regular pharmacy, were you referring to insulin supplies? If so, don't you need a doctor's prescription or "proof" that you have diabetes or another insulin-dependent condition in order to buy them? That policy/law is different in different states; I think it's required here in Ohio...I will have to look into it.

I really appreciate everyone's input on the AAS cycles. As I mentioned before, I've already put several hundred $ into these compunds (basically, a large portion of a student's stipend!). And if you read this entire post, then you also know I'm a medical student and as such don't have a lot of money. I certainly can't just buy another cycle based on testosterone now and save these orals for the future.

So as much as you guys (whose input I thank very much for and value, and advice will use next time) say to not do these cycles, I *must* do them in some modified form or another, even if it means changing these into 4 or 5 cycles total with only one anabolic per cycle and at lower dosages. Maybe just d-bol 50mg on cycle 1, winstrol 50mg cycle 2, anadrol 50mg cycle 3? And maybe just 5 or 6 weeks long instead of 7? And once these are used up in several months, start on test...

In the end, what I am saying is this: I'm extremely glad that I posted these intented cycles and I am not going to do them as listed, I've learned a lot from everyone's responses, I will definitely use testosterone etc. in the future as my main AAS, but I *must* find a way to use these oral AAS now in some form, in a safer way and that won't cause fatigure than my intended cycles. Can you guys please post some suggestions to modifications of my use of these oral AAS?

Thanks for taking the time to read this, I really do appreciate it.

 

[bb12345]

Rather than beating your liver up, why not just get over your fear of needles.

Yea, I agree. Injecting isnt that bad and you get used to it quick. Otherwise, you're just slowly going to be killing your liver

 

[Quad-smack]

Personally, I wouldn't do an oral only cycle. If I had to, I would do the winny with the a-bombs as the a-bombs will bloat you more than the d-bol will.
Your dosages are over the top. I wouldn't go more than 50 mg / day of anything. That way you can get a 3rd cycle out of what you have.
1st - get baseline and follow-up blood work done
2nd - use liver support agents at max dosages
3rd - split your winny & d-bol into am & pm doses
4th - a-bombs at night to avoid appetite suppression and lethargy
5th - read up on nutrition & recuperation
6th - line up a liver donor when the shit heads south...
Good luck.